New blood needed on the field

[Hyper]

The county "junior" team was open to ALL players who had not played senior inter county champioship football in 2004

OffalyManAway wrote:

Bottom line, right now it's way way easier for an average or poor footballer age 15 or 16 from Rhode to develop into a good county player (It happens, look at Evan Kelly from Meath , he was not even close to the Meath Minor or U21 panel yet became a top county senior) than it is for an average Kilcolonfert 15 or 16 yr old.

But why should this be the case? Is it that the Rhode GAA Club is more passionate about the sport?

[Lone Shark]

I think we've hit the middle ground that most people would agree with. I would contend that it's too important to hold on to Division 1 status to go throwing in junior players who aren't ready for it into league games, but equally I agree that there are plenty of lads playing junior that could possibly step up if put in a position to do so. Some kind of divisional structure is probably the way forward in that regard.

Rhode GAA club has benefitted from a growing population in recent years, but it has also been the best run football club in Offaly, and their underage structures have left most other clubs in the ha'penny place for some time now - the problem is that they are the exception rather than the rule. No club in Offaly, senior or junior, is going to provide the same opportunity for development to a 16 year old, Kilclonfert are not alone in that regard. Some others are coming along, Kilcormac and Ballycumber/Tubber being two that are beginning to see some good results in recent years, but overall most of the county is playing catch up.

[Ron]

But why should this be the case? Is it that the Rhode GAA Club is more passionate about the sport?

Hyper you're missing the point, its got nothing to do with passion. Rhode is a good example of how very different a junior club and a large club are. The junior player in Rhode can aspire to play well enough to play senior for his club (and perhaps for his county if he is good enough). While the junior player in the small club does not have this option. With declining populations and smaller families in rural areas, where the smaller clubs are, its a problem that will get worse before it gets better.

Its about creating the right environment for ALL players in the county to play at the highest level that they can.

I always refer to the Kerry set-up when having this debate. Take West Kerry for example, a large geographical area that includes several junior/intermediate clubs. The people of the area identify with the team (probably because it is well established there). It allows the cream of these clubs to play at a higher level. Same in South Kerry etc.. If a team in the "alliance" is sucessful enough to win an intermediate championship they can opt to go it alone as An Gaeltacht have done.

[Hyper]

Were not Kilclonfert etc given a chance to play senior football within the confines of a "Daingean Parish" team but the clubs invoved din't proceed.
Is this not what'll happen in other areas?

From what I hear and see on the field the Rhode teams don't seem to have benefitted fom the growing population. the present senior team would have all "original" Rhodonians. This influx of peoples won't probably be in evidence for years to come..........

[Ron]

Yeah there was talk earlier in the year about a senior parish side for Daingean parish, not sure why it didn't actually happen.

How this kind of team would be set up is just as important that it is set up. It would be of no benifit to anyone to make up a team just for the sake of it. It's a bit worring that no player in the whole of Daingean parish (Cappincur, Kill, Ballycommon and Daingean) and other area's like it haven't the chance to play senior. The full backing of all the teams involved and the local people would be very important. You'd need a critical mass of eager players with ability (same for any other senior team) to make it work.

The Co. board should really be looking seriously at drawing up proposals for this kind of thing. I reckon the fixtures headache it might cause is one of the reasons that it is not actively encouraged.

[Lone Shark]

Parish teams won't work because there's too much politics in the background. An amalgam of the four teams mentioned could very easily be perceived by the wider world as just a "Daingean" team, which would lead to resentment among the others. What happens when if for example no Ballycommon guy is worth a place on the starting fifteen? Will lads be able to see that for what it is, a football call, or will it all get a bit emotional? Will every defeat be blamed on too many from one side or not enough from another?

A parish team where the parish is not looking for it themselves is doomed to failure. Anyway, I keep going back to the Ballycumber example - I wouldn't want to see clubs replaced - just an outlet put in place for lads that really are too good to just be playing junior football. An amalgamated club would never field seven adult teams as Ballycumber parish does now.

If we want to go down the road of divisional sides, they have to be drawn from much bigger areas - they can't be made up of too few clubs or it'll never work. For fixture congestion and for the sake of reducing burnout I'd also add in the stipulation that no player still eligible for minor should be allowed play for the divisional side. He could for his club, but just to add another team for a good player of that age to play for would be ludicrous.

I'd also like to see a much smaller number of senior and intermediate clubs - possibly even a senior a and Senior B as they run in Limerick - and then specify Junior players only. If we had 8 clubs in Senior with 4 divisionals making up 12, and 8-10 clubs in Intermediate, then lads from clubs like Kilclonfert would either be playing at a better intermediate level or else eligible for a "North Offaly" district team. Either way it'd be better for them.

At least Kilclonfert take football seriously, even if they do have small numbers to work with. I tend to think more about the footballer from Shinrone or Kinnitty, who might be a good player but will never even look that good because his team will be a disorganised farce thrown together with about five training sessions before their championship game. These lads really need a district team. If Edenderry can produce a county standard if injury prone hurler, then surely we shouldn't have been all this time since the retirement of Liam Currams waiting for a good footballer from South West Offaly?

Fixtures would be tricky all right, but just draft in a guy from Cork with experience - dual county, huge participation, divisional teams..... if they can do it surely we can?

[Muck Savage]

About 12-13 years ago the parish thing was tried for a competition (not chamionship) but the County board quit it half way through. It wasa good idea but your not going to get the proper interest from clubs. I think the Doon, Ballycumber and E. Rovers is a great case to go against the Parish sides. The majority of these players wouldn't get a look in for the 2nd team and thus develop into good players. St. Bridgets is another example.
The county management should have one or two people going to the Inter. and Junior games only, spotting these lads and dragging them in. It might also be worth having them play with the closest Senior team as well as their home club.

PS Evan Kelly was on the Meath U21 squad when he was U21.

[Bogman]

I agree that you have to have large areas for the Divisional sides, maybe 4 in Offaly altogether. But it needs a change in mindset for everybody from the smaller clubs to get behind these Divisional line-ups rather than cribbing about where the manager or trainer or selectors are from or why their own clubman wasn't picked.

By the way who pays the expensess for the Divisional teams in Kerry. Do all the clubs chip in?

Anyway I support the idea and reckon the County Board should pursue it in both codes,

[OffalyManAway]

Fair enough Muck Savage, my point was only that Kelly could'nt kick it out of his way as a young lad ! (barely made the Carmelite Moate team in his final year)

I think theres a need to change it up a bit, although ye are right, getting away from the parochial "True Gael" mindset is going to be the bigest problem.

Maybe to start at U12 or U14 to combine clubs is the answer. Then after a couple of years add in U 16, Minor etc., etc. That way lads come up together and parents (invariably those most involved at underage level) wont have as much bias against it nor as much selfish parish interests as time goes by.

Will take a few years for it to bear fruit but in the long run it should ?

I dunno.

[gaahead]

rhode happens to have had GAA-mad male principals in the 3 primary schools in the area - this has a lot to do with the quality of their underage structures

[The Biff]

I'm too long removed from the home parish (Daingean) to comment on the current situation or "feelings at the ground", but I can remember when the powers-that-be at some of the 4 clubs couldn't have agreed to share a cup of tea. Despite this, the underage mentors DID manage to pull together parish teams that were well capable of winning a few County Championships.

Every team and parish will have their ups and downs. If Ballycumber's siblings are all strong at the moment, then let them each fly solo. I'm sure a time will come when their flights will be closer to an emu's than an eagle's.

The goal here is to find good players and give them the proper level of competition that turns them into great players. I believe Daingean parish is the largest (in area) in the diocese, so it's hard to accept that there isn't even 1 good player there who might be capable of stepping up to the County mark, given the right support. If such a lad came from Cappincur, Ballycommon or Kilclonfert, I'd be just as happy if he helped to stop repeats of days like we've had so far this year. Why cant our "powers-that-be" think likewise?

[Lone Shark]

I believe Daingean parish is the largest (in area) in the diocese, so it's hard to accept that there isn't even 1 good player there who might be capable of stepping up to the County mark, given the right support. If such a lad came from Cappincur, Ballycommon or Kilclonfert, I'd be just as happy if he helped to stop repeats of days like we've had so far this year.

Ferbane is the third largest parish in Ireland by area if I'm not mistaken - truth be told that while our boys really put their shoulder to the wheel on Saturday night, there was no one player who really stood out as a county standard player. David Lowry, Colm Gavin and Gerry O'Malley all had good games and with development might imrove in time, but the truth is that sometimes that extra special talent is just not there.



If Daingean parish has a history as acrimonious as all that, then a parish team will never work. As with all new things, it would take some bedding in time, and usually in this situation when there is something easy to blame either the championship would be won in the first year (unlikely) or the whole thing would fall asunder at a heated AGM in October and you'd be back to square one. That's why I reckon it has to be set out along non-parish lines, where the goal of the whole organisation is to improve football in the county and to provide an outlet for talented players rather than to "represent" anyone.

You just get the feeling that for it to happen an awful lot of turkeys have to vote for Christmas.

For this to work, you couldn't have any more than 8 senior clubs and roughly ten intermediate - otherwise the divisionals would be picking from too few junior clubs. As things stand, that would mean senior would consist of:

Rhode, Shamrocks, Tullamore, Clara, Gracefield, St. Brigids, Doon, Ferbane, plus the divisionals.

Intermediate would be

Edenderry, Ballycumber, Bracknagh, Erin Rovers, Shannonbridge, Clonbullogue, Walsh Island, Daingean, St. Rynagh's, Tubber.

The first five here would all be relegated, and 8 current intermediate sides (5 clubs who don't have higher ranked senior teams) would now be "junior". In truth it would be a much higher standard all round, and for most clubs it would be nothing but a cosmetic change, but it's safe to say no-one would see it that way.

The only chance you'd have of bringing it in would be to phase it over three years so clubs would have the chance to play their way into whatever grade they feel they deserve, and then if they fail they can't say they didn't have a chance.

[True Red]

Find it difficult to comprehend how you can place edenderry in the intermediate section?is this based on this year's weak group?

[Lone Shark]

Find it difficult to comprehend how you can place edenderry in the intermediate section?is this based on this year's weak group?

To avoid controversy, that was indeed my logic.

If I was looking to be diplomatic I'd stop there. Ah well.

Realistically I'd find it just as hard to comprehend how they could possibly be anywhere else but outside the top eight on recent results. Taking the last few years as a guide, it would probably be the top seven named above, and a close call between ourselves and Ballycumber for the last slot. Looking at ye're lineup on paper ye should be comfortably in the top eight, but draws with Erin Rovers and the Bridge lead me to the conclusion that ye just aren't. As things stand it looks like a three way play off for the last QF place, and though ye'd probably be favourites to get it, given a three way playoff I'd day something along the lines of 11/10 Edenderry, 5/4 Shannonbridge and 9/2 Erin Rovers - still odds against.

Ye might surprise me by going ahead and beating Ballycumber, seeing as they've now qualified already, but if they play to form I can't really see it.

I know full well before I hit submit you're going to vehemently disagree with this, but (and I don't mean this in any facetious way, but exactly as it reads) I look forward to how you could possibly back up the belief. Ye haven't exactly done yereselves justice in recent seasons.

[True Red]

I totally see where your coming from.Indeed based on this years results Edenderry are indeed way off the pace.Even casting the net further back,since winning the championship in 2001 Edenderry seniors have played 15 championship matches which resulted in 3 wins,4 draws & 8 losses.The wins came against what i would class as above average intermediate teams,Daingean,Croghan & Bracknagh,although Croghan have improved greatly since the Reds got that win way back in 2003.The draws came against Pullough,Ferbane,Shannonbridge & Doon.So i definitely see where you are coming from.

However.

One of these days (and believe me it is going to be soon) edenderry are going to cut loose.Despite what many seasoned observers think, there IS sufficient talent in Edenderry GAA to cause any team in Offaly trouble.Rhode included.

Back to the main item for discuusion on this thread.Can you imagine the row at a county board meeting if clubs such as Edenderry, Ballycucumber and Shannonbridge were told they were going down to Intermediate?I'd pay good money to see it.