New blood needed on the field

[Lone Shark]

However.

One of these days (and believe me it is going to be soon) edenderry are going to cut loose.Despite what many seasoned observers think, there IS sufficient talent in Edenderry GAA to cause any team in Offaly trouble.Rhode included.

Back to the main item for discuusion on this thread.Can you imagine the row at a county board meeting if clubs such as Edenderry, Ballycucumber and Shannonbridge were told they were going down to Intermediate?I'd pay good money to see it.

On the first point, I completely agree with you. There is sufficient talent there - and hence I tend to refer to ye as "underachieving" a lot, because I would consider the talent at Edenderry's disposal to be easily the equal if not greater than that of Ferbane, Doon, Brigid's, and even Gracefield or Shamrocks. Plenty of solid markers at the back, steady if unspectacular around the middle, and a range of forwards who can both play passing football and score. Not only that but ye have two of Offaly's best minors coming along in Ross Brady and Richie Dalton, and for good measure ye're U-16's have a few great players as well, so it looks like the panel should continue to have fresh injections of talent for the foreseeable future. (That lad Ger Dunne looks well handy)

So what the hell is going on that ye get results like Saturday?



Regarding the county board meeting you envisage, that's why I think the only way it would work would be if it was suggested for three years down the line. The championship would run as normal in 2005, and 2006 would see two down and one up. 2007 would have three down and one up, and the same in 2008, leaving us with 8 teams in 2009. The divisional sides would start next year, taking part in a competition among themselves (with it an open secret that this is a shop window for aspiring county players) and be phased into leagues and championships over the same time. To try and get sufficient relgations out of intermediate could prove much more hairy - it could require the support of Rhode, Clarra and Tullamore to agree to drop straight to junior - by rights a second team should be unable to compete at the new improved intermediate level anyway.

Alternatively you could introduce the new divisional sides at interemdiate level, and see how they do at that grade by themselves, and let them work their way up. It defeats the purpose of the whole exercise if they don't make it up pretty soon though.

Anyway, that way you're not relegating any particular club, just raising the bar to stay senior. It still wouldn't find favour with the Shannonbridge and Ballycumbers of this world, but they'd find it harder to argue against if they were being given every chance to stay senior.

[True Red]

As regards Saturday's result i think edenderry underestimated the resolve of this particular Pullough team and also a third of the team were way below par.At the end Edenderry were battling to get a draw and did well in the end to get out of a tight Cappincur pitch which didnt suit the Reds at all.More of a point gained than 2 points lost in my honest opinion.Fair play to Erin Rovers.

As for the talent coming through that you mentioned Brady and Dalton will be very good but like all good minors they need to be given time.

I like your ideas about this divisional competition and the idea for making an eight side Senior championship also merits serious thought.If it did happen it would be like removing the "wheat form the chaff" and lead to a higher quality race for the Dowling Cup.

It would give any aspiring Offaly Senior hopeful with two outlets to showcase his talent and also give representatives from Junior/Intermediate sides a reasonable shot at the big time.

However I am afraid all these ideas will probably be only pipe dreams because i find it difficult to see how it would get support from county board delegates and also i doubt whether we have the know-how in the current county board set-up to push something like this ahead.

[Lone Shark]

Whatever else you can say about Erin Rovers, they certainly don't lack resolve. They'll hang in there with you, and when you have a good full back like Lynam, you can paper over a lot of cracks because at club level if you can keep goals out you'll hang in in a lot of games where you're outclassed.


I really do believe in this divisional thing, though the more I think about it four teams might be a bit much - three covering NE Offaly, South of Tullamore and hurling Offaly would probably do the job. Thus you'd still have room for nine senior clubs making up a twelve team championship.

Regarding the know how, I don't see where the difficulty would really lie - just give somebody in Cork a ring, they've been doing this for years. They're equally familiar with the hurling/football balancing act, and then just put it in place.


What really brought this home to me was in my capacity as odds maker last year, I was doing up most of the county championships around Ireland. Now granted in some cases I wasn't the best informed, but I thought it was very instructive that county after county the common trend was that there were very few no-hopers. In most counties the last named team, the biggest outsider of them all was around 33/1. There were some exceptions -

(1) Dublin football - the reason being that St. Pat's teaching college get an entry the same as all the other college's, and they're useless at that level. There are a few other poor clubs, but this is a senior championship with 32 teams where the top sides - Na Fianna, Kilmacud, UCD are all basically not far off intercounty level.

(2) Armagh football - When you have Crossmaglen at the head of a market like this a lot of good teams are big prices, but they have a huge championship with straight knockout so a lot of poor teams get in.

(3) Waterford Hurling - the lack of a parish rule means that if you're a struggling senior club, a lot of the players are inclined to leave and transfer to Mt Sion or Ballygunner where they think they'll get noticed by county selectors quicker. The drain on weaker clubs is noticeable, and with the market dominated by the two city teams, the outsiders have little or no chance.


They are literally the only ones that come to mind. And yet in Offaly we have teams playing senior in both codes - Bracknagh/Erin Rovers/Killavilla/Clara (Hurlers, not the footballers ) who are 100/1 or bigger at the start of the year because they are way out of their depth. The above counties all have excuses - what's ours?

Likewise our intermediate football is no preparation for aspiring county players because it contains a lot of weak teams. Tullamore/Rhode/Clara could field any standard of team on a given week, and the likes of Raheen and Kilclonfert really though they put their heart and soul into it will be put to the pin of their collar to just stay intermediate for the next few years - neither side looks to have the tools to challenge Walsh Island/Rynaghs/Tubber - i.e. the better intermediate teams.

It's the classic Irish political challenge though - trying to get lads to vote for the greater good and see the bigger picture. It's not and never was in our nature.

I'll be the first to admit that Ferbane would probably object too - as long as there are 12+ senior clubs in Offaly we should never be relegated - ditto Edenderry. But make it just nine and it's a different story.....

... and yet I think the lack of any real threat of relegation is what has led to clubs like ours and also Shannonbridge go stale. Ferbane are playing with much more commitment in the last two years, and at least we've stopped being a soft touch for bigger clubs, but for these three clubs not to have a county player between them is a big part in why Offaly football is struggling.

I don't believe this will ever happen, but it doesn't stop me from believing in it as the right thing though.

[Percy Sledgehammer]

It's all very well to talk about raising the bar, but if you raise it that high then you make it almost out of reach for some clubs to reach senior at all. We (Tubber) have fought like dogs for the last ages trying to make the jump, and now you're going to reduce the number of slots to be had and dump a whole load of senior clubs in on top of us competitng for them???

[Lone Shark]

Doon and Brigid's can manage it - no reason why ye wouldn't be able.

[The Biff]

Lone Shark for next County Board Chairman !


Ah sure feck it, we might as well go the whole hog .....

Abolish the County Board and install a "Supremo" to run the show single-handedly ......

LONE SHARK for "FUHRER"

[Muck Savage]

Shark
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the whole Parish/Div thing. I really think the current club system is one of the reasons that Offaly have stayed competitive for the last 40 years or so. There may have been the odd up and down but overall we always have a shot at a Leinster every year. It gives avarage players the chance to play at a very high level and this improve, same with good young lads coming through. Look at Doon and St Bridgs for example. A lot of these young lads wouldn't get that chance if they were joined with Rhode, Ballycumber/ER. It gave me the chance to play at that level and play in a number of big games. I think joining teams together will do harm, case in point Ferbane. They joined with Belmont a few years back and I believe the year before Belmont got to the Q/F and Ferbane won the competition. Since then Ferbane have gone down hill with very few of the Belmont lads playing with them. That was a big talent pool at the time with the Grennans, Claffeys, Ryans etc. at they got nothing since then. I'm fully sure that there were lads in Belmont that would have pushed for a lot of teams but with that joining gave up football. With the current system it gives lads a chance to improve, OK the lads playing Inter. don't get the same exposure but if they're good they'll stand out. 12 senior clubs with say 20 players each gives 240 lads the chance to play senior football, by bringing in the Parish thing it will reduce the number of Senior clubs and also the number of players at that level.

[Lone Shark]

There's a lot of good logic in what you say, but you do misunderstand a few core aspects to it -

(1) Firstly I'm not saying have an 8/9 team senior championship - I'm saying introduce divisional (not parish - I can't stress enough not parish!!) teams that will replace some of the weaker clubs. There will still be 12 teams - and 240 senior players, but the overall standard will be higher.

(2) I'm not saying amalgamate clubs - you'll notice that if this system were brought in as I outlined it above, Brigid's and Doon would both still have senior status at the moment, and deservedly so. The idea is that junior clubs would continue to play, but their players would be eligible to play in the senior championship with their division. That way the best of the juniors get a chance to shine at a higher level. If a junior club, for argument's sake Durrow, starts to make progress and move up the ranks, well then once they become intermediate their players are no longer eligible for the divisional team, but because the intermediate championship is now de facto a tougher championship, they still get to play at a decent level and play their trade against good footballers.

(3) The Ferbane deterioration is a good point, but in truth I don't blame the amalgamation for the decline - we just don't have the spine of players that we once did. There are a few good younger players there now who could in time bring the good days back, but it was just a really strong and well trained vintage that had all those good years. As regards Belmont, well obviously the increased focus on hurling has had a big part in that. And while that mightn't be good for Offaly football, this is an Offaly GAA site, so the extra hurling dimension balances out the effect.

I agree over parishes - I really do - but the point is that good junior players can get lost in the quagmire at the moment - players like Sean Ryan, who looked like he had a lot of potential for the under 21s this year. This system would give them an outlet, while still keeping the Doons and Brigids of this world intact.

[Muck Savage]

Fair enough then on the area thing. Would this only apply to Junior clubs and once they move up to Inter. then they are gone? Any way that can possibly improve the level of play throughout the county would be good

I really hope the minors do well Saturday, a win would be massive for the county. What's with these lads like Lynam and Boland heading off like that, do they not realise that they are close to something here. I'm still pissed with Brady for getting sent off the last day.