New blood needed on the field

[OffalyManAway]

It's about time the management started looking around the up and coming clubs for talent. Sticking with the Old Firm Senior Clubs of Rhode, Clara, Edenderry etc, to source players is failing, clearly.
Professional soccer clubs give many many players trials, why dont Offaly GAA start doing something like that. Scout around at intermediate level too. There's more top class players out there than those playing Senior Football.

What about the up and coming club teams , the likes of Kilclonfert for example. Got to a Leinster Final (albeit Junior) last year and have big game players able to play ball. Now competing and looking very strong at intermediate level. Surely some of these lads should now be give their chance during the league and O'Byrne Cup- nothing to lose right ?

[True Red]

just who are these big game players you refer to?

[Lone Shark]

I think to be honest Offaly is not like other counties where we have a really competitive intermediate championship which is not far off senior.

Erin Rovers and Bracknagh are way off the standard that Rhode and Clara and the likes operate at, and that's just within senior - there's nothing to suggest that any of the intermediate teams would be any better than that. Richie Fox stood out all last year for Erin Rovers - but making the step up he struggled and was cut off the panel.

I think that a truly county standard player would stick out like a sore thumb at intermediate, and I don't know if anyone does.

With all that said, I think this county is pretty good for giving intermediates etc a chance. Alan Mulhall, Ger Rafferty, Conor Evans, Mac, just to name some all play at that grade with their clubs. And offhand I don't know of anyone else down at that level I'd say could improve the Offaly fifteen. Realistically a back would have to be better than Scott Brady or Shane Sull. A midfielder would have to be better than the super. A forward would have to be better than Paschal or Jimmy. Do these players really exist playing for Kilclonfert or the likes????

[Seán Boyle Ó Rathallaigh]

I believe the best panel Offaly could have is there at the moment. A deeper problem Offaly has as a County is that not enough of its male population are playing Gaelic Games. We already have a lower population that most counties so when we lose players to other codes and migration to Dublin, Cork etc it leaves our choices very limited. All of the focus will now go on the elite academy which will work but I also believe large amounts of free time and of course money should be invested in clubs to ensure that players continue to transfer form underage across to adult football, the more players playing will mean more competitive club games and hence better county footballers. As I know one winning Minor team of the last couple years where only 4 from the starting 15 in the final are still playing football!

[Ron]

I agree with Seán. But I think there are several reasons why we have this well documented drop-off from underage to adult level, some of these could be better addressed by the way football (and I suppose hurling) is set-up in the county (some like migration, other sports etc. are not so easily addressed).

I'll give you an example; I play for a junior club, we strugle to even keep a team out most years and but for a few die-hards there probably wouldn't be a club at all. But, we have at least 2 or 3 wonderful players who are still underage and are exceptionally talented. At the moment they play underage on a combined parish team where they are as good (and better) than many of the bigger clubs/parishes. But what happens once they are over 21? They go back playing club football wiith a junior team with no chance of progressing to intermediate, never mind senior! (at a time when they should be improving) Surely we could do with these players playing senior football?

What I am trying to say is that we need to maximise our playing population as well as increase it. The opportunity for every club player to play on a senior team is something that works in counties like kerry for instance. I think this option needs to be seriously investigated in Offaly, if it was set-up properly we could reap the rewards at county level.

[True Red]

i think what ron is alluding to there is a championship where clubs combine forces.It has been mentioned on this site before.It is operated in Kerry to great success.Take Paul Galvin from Kerry for example.He plays senior for a divisional side and junior for his home club.Both teams names escape me for the moment.His junior club side ended up winning the All Ireland junior title this year while i think he had a modicum of success with his divisional senior side.

Anyway can you imagine a junior player from offaly coming through onto the county team like he did and making an impact.I dont think so.It just shows the quality of footballers that the Kingdom have (Even at Junior Level) and the dearth of quality that we have.

No matter what way you look at it the best 21/22 footballers in Offaly were on that panel this year.the last 8 of the panel of 30 could be described as average and any good senior club footballer could replace them.Thecream of Offaly footballing talent was in there this year and as far as I would be concerned there aint too many Paul galvin's out there lurking in places like Kilclonfert,Ballycommon or any other junior or intermediate sides.

[Ron]

True Red,
That is exactly what I am taking about, clubs joining up for Senior Championship, it would not only give all players a chance to make it at senior but it would also raise the standard of senior football in general.

The best 21/22 footballers probably were on the Offaly panel last year, what I am really talking about is expanding that pool of players and not minimising it as the current system does.

I would be concerned there aint too many Paul galvin's out there lurking in places like Kilclonfert,Ballycommon or any other junior or intermediate sides.

I don't agree with this I actually know of a few very promising players (some of them still quite young) in this area. Wouldn't one "Paul Galvin" be a huge addition to an Offaly team?

Anyway can you imagine a junior player from offaly coming through onto the county team like he did and making an impact.I dont think so.It just shows the quality of footballers that the Kingdom have (Even at Junior Level) and the dearth of quality that we have.

At the moment I can't imagine this happening, the structures aren't there and that's precisely the problem! Would Paul Galvin have made it if he didn't have the outlet of a Senior club?

I assume that you an Edenderry man (True Red is a bit of a give-away) and so this problem is not one that a player from there (or Tullamore, Clara, Rhode) would encounter, but is a big issue for many of the smaller clubs and their players in the county.

[Lone Shark]

I touched on some of these things before in one of my older articles - http://www.uibhfhaili.com/offalygaa/columns/ls1.asp - where I suggested a couple of divisional sides would go a long way. The article is a little out of date but the premise holds.

However I do stand by my opinion that a player develops a lot more with real responsibility on his shoulders, so in that regard I've great time for the county having plenty of clubs where the jersey really means something. The best example is Ballycumber parish - if they were amalgamated there's no way we'd have three senior teams, seven adult teams and young players really having to step up and deliver for their team. Damien Hunt, Jimmy Coughlan, Alan Lynam, Trevor Phelan, Colm Quinn, Chop Grennan, and Rory Guinan all played at one level or another for Offaly this year - in an amalgamated team you have those seven forwards, not including Ian McLoughlin, Ciaran Grennan, Adrian Kelly, Donie Ryan and Matthew Boland all fighting it out for six slots in the forwards. Much better that these teams stay seperate and these lads all get to develop.

To be honest I do think that if a junior club, for argument's sake, we'll say Capincur, if they had a player who was truly county standard I think he would stand out - I don't think he'd go un-noticed. No disrespect to the defences of Ballycumber and Shannonbridge juniors who are in Capincurs group, but if Paul Galvin was playing against any of them he'd be running up seven or eight points at least in every game. It's different in Kerry where the basic standard of club footballer is so high, so a guy who'd be a county panellist in Offaly would just get lost down there. Conversely look at the impact Aidan Holly- a standard club player down there - had for Doon in the one championship game he got to play for them?

I do think that Offaly could do with regrading a lot of teams downwards down along the codes. We have about 10/11 real senior teams in Offaly, and if a good chunk of intermediate group C was relegated it would be no loss either. Then all of a sudden not only do we have a much better senior championship, but even for those players playing intermediate the step up wouldn't be as big.

[the bare biffo]

Divisional / Regional teams sound like a very useful notion to me.
A good young player will improve by playing with and against other good players. The opposite is also true. Has any club ever put a motion to convention on this subject ?

[OffalyManAway]

LS,

I hear what you are saying that a good player will stand out , but will he get his chance. There are good players out there - surely ones who can at least take a 14 yrd free in front of the goals going into overtime to seal a win in the Leinster Championship - no ?.
Are they getting their chance though ? Are the structures in place that allow a good intermediate player test himself against inter county players and in front of county management to see if (or show that) he has what it takes at county level.

I dont think the structures are in place.

The capincur man you talk about, will shine , be talked about by locals over a pint as a "grand footballer", but will he be given an opportunity toprove himself and make the step up ?. I dont think so.
He'll go down in local 'lore as a "gifted footballer" and another (INSERT SMALL OFFALY GAA CLUB NAME OF CHOICE) man who deserved a chance on the county team but never got it.

[Bogman]

I wholeheartedly agree that divisional sides would bring a welcome new dimension to Offaly club football. But it would mean a change in mindset. At the moment there are such strong rivalries that it would be hard to bring together neighbouring clubs in a divisional side.

For instance there have been various attempts down through the years to field a parish side from Clonbullogue, Bracknagh and Walsh Island. There should be the makings of a good senior side there but it never seems to work out.

I also want to make a point directly in opposition to Lone Shark's input above. I reckon that divisional sides would stop the tendency of our club sides to put all their play through one county man who develops a strong selfish and team-destructive streak as a result. A lot of the wides against Laois and Louth came from players who are the Go-To Guys for their clubs. I reckon these outstanding players develop really bad habits from being the shining light in their club team or bad underage Offaly team - like no-hope shots from crazy angles or wanting to do everything bar make the tea in the dressing-room or shooting for points when well covered.

[Lone Shark]

LS, I hear what you are saying that a good player will stand out , but will he get his chance. There are good players out there - surely ones who can at least take a 14 yrd free in front of the goals going into overtime to seal a win in the Leinster Championship - no ?.

Niall Mac missed that bacause of one poor kick, or because of the pressure - I don't know really, essentially you'd have to ask him. The point is that it's unfair to pick on one error and say that that justifies some junior guy getting playing over Niall McNamee.

LS,

Are they getting their chance though ? Are the structures in place that allow a good intermediate player test himself against inter county players and in front of county management to see if (or show that) he has what it takes at county level.

Two points from that - first of all, you can't go picking four or five junior players on the county panel - there just aren't that many good enough. Now in terms of "giving a chance", in the O'Byrne cup this year we had Ger Rafferty and Alan Mulhall of Intermediate, and Sean Ryan of Junior get a run - not to mention Mac playing who is intermediate as well.

The Under 21's had Ryan, Bracken, and James Rafferty all from outside the senior ranks. It mightn't be a lot, but it's hardly fair to say that these lads don't get a chance. I'd wager it's as many if not more as played for any junior/int clubs in other counties.

I do think the junior team could be better managed, and this would represent another outlet, but that's a completely different issue. This sounds a bit bizarre, but maybe we could try something along the lines of a development panel taken from junior and intermediate clubs, send them down to Kerry to play a series of challenge games against the divisional sides down there and see how they get on.

Ultimately nobody was impressed with how we did down in Carlow - but of the 17 players that featured, in all honesty which of them would you drop and what non-senior players would you suggest are good enough to replace them?




Regarding Bogman's point, I think that proper instruction on making the step up to county level would cut any of that out if it really is the case - the truth is up to the Brigid's game this year, you'd have to go a long way back to find the last time Jimmy hit 5 wides for Doon, so I don't think Croke Park was a bad shooting day. It was the same responsibility that made him into the footballer that made such an impact in 2004, I think it was just being off-form in 2005.

I also think you need to be a lot broader than just parish. Parish sides will bring to the boil years of simmering resentment - if the side represents all junior players over a quarter of the county it becomes less about local pride and stubborn-ness and more about football.

[Hyper]

There was a forum there this year for your junior/intermediate club plus senior players who hadn't made it to display their talents in the county jersey - namely the Offaly Junior team. This was so well supported by the clubs/players that Laz Molloy was called on to play in goals - nearly being summoned from the line myself God forbid!
If this team was properly organised then surely it could only be a benefit to the cause. However clubs don't want to release players and this is your major obstacle.
Any comments?

[Ron]

In my opinion a good county player is created through nurture and nature. Players from junior clubs are deprived of the opportunity to play at the highest level that they can. It is wrong to expect a player in this situation to be challenging for a place on the county senior team it would be a huge step up. But what if he had been playing on a divisional senior side for a few years as well as for his own club, he should be a better player as a result and would have as good a chance of playing for the county. His own club would also benifit from having a better and more experienced player in their ranks. It would offer an incentive for young players in junior clubs to be the best that they can be, something that can be lacking.
The Offaly junior team is a seperate debate altogether, in that instance junior/intermediate players are being asked to make the step-up with only the experience of playing in the lower grades, the chance to make better footballers out of them from U21 up has already been missed. Would it not be better to have more senior players to pick from?

[OffalyManAway]

Ron hits the nail on the head. I'm not saying that right now there are Junior players who should take the place of current Offaly county players.

I'm saying that there are Junior / Intermediatre players who, given the right exposure (early on in their playing days 16-20 yrs), could well develop into top notch county players. But there are no structures in place to help these guys develop. Agreed, they are not better than Pascal or Jimmy right now and they never will be if they continue to ply their trade against average opposition in junior and intermediate club leagues.

Bottom line, right now it's way way easier for an average or poor footballer age 15 or 16 from Rhode to develop into a good county player (It happens, look at Evan Kelly from Meath , he was not even close to the Meath Minor or U21 panel yet became a top county senior) than it is for an average Kilcolonfert 15 or 16 yr old.