Where are we going with this?

[green&white]

I havent posted in awhile because I am becoming disillussioned witht his site... It was presumed that this site would offer something much more than the Hoganstand not just silly little arguments. The only difference I see at the moment is the standard of writing is somewhat higher...There is a common trend on this site to bulk up posts with highly descriptive pieces and therefore try and win "debates" ( while often ridiculing others) through the posters knowledge of the english language.

As already pointed out we presume a lot of the players probably read this site, as they are (presumably) keen GAA followers of Offaly and therefore would be interested in most topics posted. Therefore I must say for what I have been reading lately regarding Sean Ryan in particular, Brian Carroll ,Brian Watkins,and a few other county players in both codes, I think it is disgraceful. Are we going down the road of the old cliche of 'hurlers on the ditch'??? While I agree with our right to discuss genuine GAA matters on this site, I do not agree with our ability to pass anonymous snide and derogarty comments towards players, questioning their committment, potential and professionalism. If we could only stop for one minute and acknowledge the work these players put in, especially at this time of year, training up to 6/7 times a week, having no social life to speak of, while trying to hold down full time careers (academic or other), not to mention the grief from girlfriends/wives for not seing them or unable to go out on Saturday night because of training/match, cant plan holidays because evertything and I mean EVERYTHING revolves around GAA. We sit here on our high horses and speak about how they are not as good as past teams, they dont look after injuries properly, they are not living up to potential etc. etc. but sorry are we so perfect that we can continually comment on this? Have we always lived up to our potential in everything we do?

[Barracuda]

Agreed, constructive comments if possible from here on in - especially concerning the players,not personal ones where we use the forum to grind an axe for some other reason.
I do feel the management (being paid professionals) should not be affored the same courtesy.These people help to shape our teams for the future and if those who are informed can shed light on how they are getting on it can only be a good thing.

Truce ........hope OF agrees with you too.

[Offalys Future]

In all of my posts in this forum i have been honest and told it the way it is. It seems clear that there is a few lads that have a problem with the truth and well that's too bad.

As a Offaly hurler they aren't just representing themselves they are representing the people of Offaly and that is something that they should cherish. Some players have not respected this honour in the past and i have highlighted that.
While i accept that hurling is still an amateur sport, unless the hurlers/management/county board take a more professional approach to everything we havent a hope in hell.
Do they have to? Yes i feel they do as they are getting something that is only bestowed onto the lucky few. How come so many other county players can approach the season in such a professional manner and not some of our players?
If this continues then we will continue to be as poor as we are at present.

This site gives people like me the opportunity to express my views and concerns and to tell it the way it is as i have always done.

I have never passed an anonymous snide or derogarty comment towards players. I have questioned some players committment, potential and professionalism where i feel is necessary.
I have only ever talked about Offaly GAA, which as you are aware is my main concern.

I have told it the way it is and i have backed up each statement. The way i feel it should be told.

[Rynaghs Biffo]

not again lads.............

[Barracuda]

one word this time.... Unbelievable

[The Magpie]

I think this is a good topic. G&W has made some very good points - particularly in the area of making hard-hitting or snide remarks about players. I'm not perfect by any means but I try not to make comments that are directed at individuals. It's too easy to sit in a cozy office typing away about some fella without having any idea what level of effort or commitment he's putting in. In addition, it's even easier to tear strips off somebody under a pseudonym. I think the writing and opinions of most of the posters here would be very different if their user names were replaced with their real identities. Although I don't agree with everything Lone Shark writes here, he at least writes it in the knowledge that most people know who he actually is - by name, if not personally.

At the same time, this is a forum where people should be able to air their views - no differently to having a post-match chat in a pub. For example, if people believe the current crop of Offaly footballers and hurlers are not as good as past teams, they should be able to say it. If people believe better guys in the County deserve a chance or that the management or training could be better, they should be able to say it - but this can be done without attacking people.

Finally, I think people should try to stick to facts or at least try to ensure what they're writing is factual, rather than hear-say. This is not helping.

There's quite a fine line between healthy debate/comments and what's not healthy. There are too many examples, of late, where that line has been crossed.

[TheManFromFerbane]

Totally agree with you green and white Green and White, I have absolutely no problem with people making their points and then backing them up if possible but this continuous back and forth just gets boring, unconstructive and to be honest pointless.

I don't know what the solution is, maybe just a bit of maturity to know when your point has been well made and then leave it at that, its not necessary to respond to every comment (even if they are directed at you). If you can make your point to your own satisfaction that should be it and then let the reader make their own mind up. IMHO.

[Blackthorn Man]

Agree 100% with you G&W and with regard to the over use of the english language and exhausted comments I for one find these extremely boring and if a topic I'm interested has an over elaborated response I couldn't be ars*d reading it because I've better things to be doing with my time. Don't get me wrong I am very interested in Offaly topics but I believe short and to the point answers would appeal to most people

[Sydthebeat]

i for one, come onto this forum to get a bit more informed than i would normally be in pubs etc. I find some debates very informative and its handy to keep up to date with things happening over the county, as im stuck over here in the east side!
However some threads deal very publically with private matters of what are amateur players. Some posters assuming they know the ins and outs of other peoples likes and dislikes etc are purporting these assumptions as facts, which in itself is very dangerous. Just because these people put on our county or club jersey does not mean their lives are open for us to dissect... They should be treated with the upmost respect as, to be perfectly honest, this forum at the very least wouldnt exist without them.
The Sean Ryan thread has gotten way out of hand, with posters more interested in one-up-manship than respecting the subject.
Whilst the main protagonist makes very valid and significant points, the language used can sometimes be inappropriate and unwarranted. Its seems to be used only to form a superiority standing in an argument.

[Offalys Future]

I'm sorry i'm not having this.
I never once wrote anything publically regarding a players private life. Not once.
I talked about players/performances/injuries etc. Not private life.
Some lads are trying to make me as a hate figure on this site from my comments which is wrong.
What angers me more is the 2nd best is acceptable mentality that is present on this website.
If all our county hurlers over the last five years had given 100% we would have won all-irelands. The fact is that this didnt happen. But hopefully Joe Dooley can change that this year.

[TheManFromFerbane]

I'm sorry i'm not having this.
I never once wrote anything publically regarding a players private life. Not once.
I talked about players/performances/injuries etc. Not private life.
Some lads are trying to make me as a hate figure on this site from my comments which is wrong.
What angers me more is the 2nd best is acceptable mentality that is present on this website.
If all our county hurlers over the last five years had given 100% we would have won all-irelands. The fact is that this didnt happen. But hopefully Joe Dooley can change that this year.

I don't think think people are trying to make you a hate figure, I just think that some of your language upsets people.

I actually agree with you on the players commitment thing. If a poster feels a player isn't giving a 100% then the poster should be free to say it. Although if a poster is going to use examples from his private the poster should back this up with 100% proof. i.e. I saw him drinking 6 pints of Guinness the night before the game, it couldn't be any other drink and I saw it with my two eyes. 2nd hand stories just aren't fact.

[Offalys Future]

I agree
Private life is seperate and in my opinion should not be discussed on a public forum.

[Lone Shark]

Jaysus. I go away for a few weeks and ye all go philosophical on me discussing things like where we are going in life!

All this board is, and I don't think anyone would make any pretence that it is otherwise, is a place for people to talk about Offaly GAA and related matters. They can then talk about what they like within reason, but seeing as every reader can tune into every conversation, it tends to avoid tall tales because out there somewhere is someone who can pull you up on it - and I think that's a good thing.

Regarding the content, I'd be fairly happy that most people know where the line is. If you play top level football or hurling, it is only natural that people will discusss your performances, or respective strengths and weaknesses relative to other options for that position. I'd be surprised if any intercounty hurler or footballer minded that, once their private life was untouched, or speculation about their mindset or attitude was not rife either. Basically saying a hurler appears to be very weak pulling off his left is fine. Saying he is very strong at pulling women in nightclubs the night before games is not. I don't think that's too much to ask.

As to the issue of "what the board is", I'll say quite simply that it is what you make it. It's funny how whenever I meet people from all over the county and they talk about the board, various people have completely different complaints. Among those I've heard are:

1> Not enough talk on hurling relative to football
2> Everybody is too well informed, which makes it difficult for the person who isn't close to the scene to take part without feeling stupid putting up some of their posts
3> Too many people seem to know each other, it's a bit of a closed shop.

Now it appears, the language used is not liked by all as well. To each and all of these criticisms, I say exactly the same thing. The board is a reflection of those who contribute. We're not going to tolerate bad language, spamming, offensive postings and unsubstantiated slander on individuals, but beyond that pretty much all viewpoints are welcome. If it ain't what you want to see, well then post up the kind of discussion you want. Another similar lurker is probably out there waiting for the right time to join in. At the risk of sounding like a woeful cliché, there's room for everyone at the inn.

[TheManFromFerbane]

Saying he is very strong at pulling women in nightclubs the night before games is not.

Do you not think its fair to comment on that if its factual? i.e. you've seen it with your own eyes.

[Blackthorn Man]

Thanks Lone Shark. I think we are all of the same opinion about where to draw the line so lets stick to it.
I know some players do read this and I know of one who was severly ridiculed some months ago over an incident in a club match. The post was totally uncalled for and it had a 'confidence bursting' affect on the young lad which I'm sure we all agree is unacceptable. This U/21 is currently in Australia and who knows maybe it was that post that drove him there or even worst still maybe if he compares life in Aus to playing football in Offaly under constant slating by the 'hurlers on the ditch' he might be another young lad down the road. Remember folks this is a very different society to 20 years ago when there was very little soccer or rugby offered as an alternative and also remember that young talent in Offaly needs to be nurtured and encouraged. This new generation will not accept constant battering by the begrudgers and will just walk away so please disgard of the more personal comments.