Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

[azoffaly]

Offaly's Future, you have some very fortright opinions, a lot of which I agree with, even if I wince at the language used in relation to individuals. I must admit though I came away from the Limerick game with a lot of dark thoughts in my head myself. Most of them relating to things LS is mentioning with regards to the minors.

But my main point, have you raised these opinions in your club, or tried to get them on the agenda in the county board? I'm not stirring here, I feel that some of your ideas have a lot of merit, especially rebuilding the structures at under 14 etc. If you have, what happened? If you haven't then why not? You should.

[Offalys Future]

ggggggggggggggg

[Bord na Mona man]

I don't think we should blame the county board as an isolated unit.
They are a reflection of the GAA people (officials, supporters, the half interested) in the county.
I think for the last 10 or 15 year our standards in Offaly haven't been high enough.

We were too tolerent of losing to Kilkenny by ever increasing margins at underage level.
Soon Wexford were turning us over more often. Then Dublin, then Laois and Westmeath.
Now its Carlow. It could be Wicklow or Kildare soon enough.
You have to yell stop at some stage and take action to remedy this.

I think the feeling was that things would turn around naturally.
Sadly, other counties went ahead and set up academies and put in big work at underage a decade before Offaly bothered with anything.
A county like Offaly has to set trends rather than belatedly follow them.

[azoffaly]

Ill take this in pieces because you've made a few statements there. I don't like doing this normally, so forgive all the 'quotes'.

Well
Right heres the problem. People in Offaly arent realistic, lads have to realise how bad things really are.

I think that's true, but only to an extent and is changing. I would certainly have had the opinion that our main problems were physicallity and that we would always produce nice, wristy hurlers who would always have enough hurling to get past lads like Dublin, Wexford, Laois, Antrim etc etc. I always thought that if we sorted out the intensity and physicallity, then success would follow again, because we were operating from a base of skillful hurlers. What I have seen in the past few months, and what I've heard, now makes me question that. Against Limerick, Offaly weren't even doing the basics right, and worse weren't looking to do the basics right. No support play, no good vision. In fact Limerick were doing those things and it was sad to see. So now we are at a point where we are producing lads who are not exceptionally skillful any more, and are still lacking in physicality and drive. That's the worst of both worlds.

I havent said this to my club and the reason being is that in my opinion the wrong people are running the county board and that is where our biggest problems lay. I have seen first hand the attitude of many officials and to be honest i would be wasting my time.

I disagree with that. Simply because I feel that if we adopt that attitude we are dead. End of story. If things are being done wrong, but no-one shouts stop, then things will continue to be done wrong. At least if you raise concerns like that, and give concrete proposals, like you have done here, rather than just being a 'Ah Jaysus everything is fcuked, we're brutal altogether' merchant (which you are not) then at least it would stimulate debate. Maybe even a letter to the Independent/Express/Tribune or whatever. I would suggest going down the club/county board route though. If you have ideas, and believe in them, it's wrong to sit on them in my opinion.

To be honest its not rocket science a quick-fix approach would be to have fully qualified coaches over teams from u-12 to u-21. This would at the very least stop the decline, but to be honest in order for Offaly ever to compete at the highest level again major changes need to be made.

I agree. I think at this stage that the county board needs to go for a two pronged approach. 1 is to put in 'firemen' to stop Offaly sinking any further, and to give the really young lads something to aspire to. The 2nd thing is to overhaul the underage structures and hurling in general if they need to. Judging by the relative skill levels of our young lads now, it seems like we DO need to.

I would reccommend a seperate board for hurling, seperate sponsors, seperate everything. Get young enthusastic people on the board, people that have the same ambitions and goals and build for the future. With a young enthusastic board with big ambitions there would be no problem getting a big sponsor to come on board.

Thats the sort of stuff, together with your academy idea, that should be raised. Float the idea and see what people think. At least try to make a difference. If it's shot down, try and get other clubs to raise it. People know at this stage that something is wrong, the problem is proposing solutions. So why not propose yours?

Now what sort of reaction do you think that would get at a county board meeting?

I don't know. I'm sure people would be sceptical, but at the same time they can't tell us things are going well. A proper submission would at least make some people think, and who knows, maybe there would be support from delegates there? At least if it's debated, it might be reported on, and if it's reported on, there might be more movement on it. MAybe even the letters to the papers would further the idea.

Another thing is that many of the people that are running the academy's and county teams simply arent qualified. They dont know what they are doing. Would these people be willing to step aside in the interest of Offaly hurling? i doubt it very much.

If they are not qualified, the county board should stipulate that they must get qualifications. If they refuse, they can be terminated. Refusing to get qualifications would mean resignation. That would be a condition of the new plan.

I love Offaly hurling, followed it all my life and it really is heart breaking to see whats going on at the moment especially at underage level.

I can see you do. I know it hurts to see things the way they are, so why not try to change them. At least make the effort. If nothing happens, then you are perfectly entitled to say 'I told you so'. But if I were you I would put my ideas on paper, and take them to the club. Maybe lobby a few lads beforehand to get a solid support level. Then involve the papers, and make the county board take it seriously. I would also be careful not to 'personalise' the issue. It does your argument no favours if you say things like Johnny Flaherty is this or Johnny Pilkington is that. Keep it direct and on point, don't allow it to become a personality issue, or a popularity contest.

What do you think?
Whats everyones views on the above?

That's my view. I'm not sure of splitting the boards, but I definitely think that whatever is going on underage is not working. We used to be skillful but off the pace once Clare made everyone go bananas. Now we are still off the pace, and not skillful. That's a recipe for serious problems, and a long time in the dark ages.

[Lone Shark]

Well
Right heres the problem. People in Offaly arent realistic, lads have to realise how bad things really are. I havent said this to my club and the reason being is that in my opinion the wrong people are running the county board and that is where our biggest problems lay. I have seen first hand the attitude of many officials and to be honest i would be wasting my time.
To be honest its not rocket science a quick-fix approach would be to have fully qualified coaches over teams from u-12 to u-21. This would at the very least stop the decline, but to be honest in order for Offaly ever to compete at the highest level again major changes need to be made. I would reccommend a seperate board for hurling, seperate sponsors, seperate everything. Get young enthusastic people on the board, people that have the same ambitions and goals and build for the future. With a young enthusastic board with big ambitions there would be no problem getting a big sponsor to come on board.
Now what sort of reaction do you think that would get at a county board meeting?

Another thing is that many of the people that are running the academy's and county teams simply arent qualified. They dont know what they are doing. Would these people be willing to step aside in the interest of Offaly hurling? i doubt it very much.
I love Offaly hurling, followed it all my life and it really is heart breaking to see whats going on at the moment especially at underage level.

What do you think?
Whats everyones views on the above?

I would have several views to be honest.

(1) You presume the existence of a lot of people that I'm not sure exist. You talk of those in positions such as the academy and crucial club training posts with a shortage of skills and qualifications (I'm not agreeing or disagreeing btw, merely pointing out) - but either that means that there are a lot of people out there with coaching qualifications sitting on their hands, which I doubt, or else you would need a whole cohort of people to commit huge chunks of time to become qualified coaches etc. I'm not sure how this is realistic - this is yet another facet where being a small county with limited numbers hurts us.

(2) The GAA is a democracy - it has flaws, but ultimately if your views are correct and you speak in such a way as to make people believe in them, they will get carried by your club on to the county. If you want to be a county board delegate for your club, I'm sure a year or two of committee work would get you there. And also - if you make a big statement at a county board meeting, even if it's not carried, it will be reported in the local papers and that will stimulate the debate at large.

(3) I think you're very presumptuous assuming that you would get a big sponsor before you won a Leinster title, or an All Ireland underage title. You're putting the cart before the horse here. I accept it's a vicious circle, but that's how it is.

[Offalys Future]

ggggggggggggggggg

[Bord na Mona man]

And to refer to the huge chunks of time it takes, that isnt true, the level 1 course i think took 7 weeks, 3 hours each week and some practical work with the team that you would be looking after anyway.

While Foundation and Level 1 don't take long, each subsequent grade takes an increasingly longer time to achieve.

[Offalys Future]

yep your right, but many coaches and trainers of not only clubs teams but county teams dont even have level 1 done. They dont even have the basics.

[uibhfhaili]

nice to see that certain posters have reverted to shoot the messenger mode. And people wonder why Offaly are such a shambles.

[azoffaly]

nice to see that certain posters have reverted to shoot the messenger mode. And people wonder why Offaly are such a shambles.

What do you mean by that? Who's shooting whom?

[Kevin]

nice to see that certain posters have reverted to shoot the messenger mode. And people wonder why Offaly are such a shambles.

Uibhfhaili, I have a differing view.

If Offalys Future was the least bit concerned by any 'shoot the messengerism' (justified or not) he'd be gone long ago. If Offalys Future decides to push his agenda forward, he will need to build consensus and get some support on-board for his proposals (as I believe AZ alludes to above). The challenges he is presented with here are nothing compared to what he will need to withstand should he decide bring his ideas to the floor of some meeting or whatever.

Your quoted comment (quoted above) does not give the 'certain posters' the proper credit.

[Bord na Mona man]

nice to see that certain posters have reverted to shoot the messenger mode. And people wonder why Offaly are such a shambles.

In fairness this isn't the first time you've claimed this.
Are you not guilty of doing this yourself? By criticising posters for holding a certain view, yet not offering any analysis on where you agree/disagree with them.
Surely that's shooting the messenger rather than discussing the message?

[flairgun]

I would reccommend a seperate board for hurling, seperate sponsors, seperate everything. Get young enthusastic people on the board, people that have the same ambitions and goals and build for the future. With a young enthusastic board with big ambitions there would be no problem getting a big sponsor to come on board.
Now what sort of reaction do you think that would get at a county board meeting?

Just on this part, you know that old zen proverb "Change comes from within"?
Well in this case, It could refer to this idea. Personally, I think separate hurling/football boards, at least for all Developmental aspects of the game, would be terrific, though I think there may be less advantage for some of the administrative aspects of running our games.
But throwing out an idea like this is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. I reckon there is a lot of politics to getting things done at the county board (for that matter, even the club board) level and you'd have to play that game to get what you want done achieved. Coming into this setting all guns blazing for change will get you nowhere fast, regardless of whether it's the right thing to do or not.
That being said, I think some of the ideas you mention have great merit and I'd second the others encouragement of you bringing those to the board and starting the discussion.

[the bare biffo]

I think the emphasis that OF places on coaching qualifications is one that should we well noted. Reading some of the posts outlining the lack of basic skills in the minor team one thing that came to my mind was the amount of time that kids spend with a hurl in their hand. I know at 5 I was constantly carrying a hurl hitting stones, weeds, the odd cat, or anything that served as an imaginary sliothair. I would be interested to know how much of their "play" time fellas like Brian Whelehan, The Dooley's and Pilkingtons etc spent between the ages of 5 and 12 with a hurl in their hands and compare that with the current minor team.
However we can not uninvent computers, playstations or any of the counter attractions that exist now, so this is the reason it is no longer good enough to let young lads out on a field to learn by themselves, as was often the case in the past. The time that is spent at practice now is far more precious and should be treated as such. Guys (or girls) taking charge of this practice must be more focussed on what they are trying to achieve with kids. It is'nt rocket science, the basic skills are just that, but it does need a degree of focus and more than anything efficiency in the use of time that may be lacking at the moment. But the most important thing any coach can do with kids is instill an enthusiasm for practice and learning. Because however good the coaching sessions are if kids arent sufficiently interested to take out the hurl or football at home and practice what theyve been coached, well it's a bit like p'ing against the wind. For that reason I think it is not always wise to always look to former players to be the coashes at underage level. The ability to communicate with kids and instill this enthusiasm is way more important at a young age than the technical brilliance of the coach. Being a brilliant player does not mean you can be a brilliant coach, people have differing personalities and some are just not good at communicating with kids.

On the issue of a seperate hurling board, it does seem to make sense, but I would fear the danger, given the geographical split in Offaly, that you would end up with two very small conties in effect.

[Lone Shark]

I'd like to get a second opinion on the whole "2 county board" idea - preferably from someone well versed in Galway about how it works. I'd also worry about whether we'd lose the couple of crossover players we have. Birr and K/K have provided a lot of footballers at all levels in the last few years, and one of the best minor hurlers on last Saturday's team was from Ballycumber - I'd worry that we'd lose that, and I'd need reassurance from someone in Galway that the odd footballer from Gort or hurler from Carraroe is allowed prosper.