Brian Whelahan to run for Fine Gael

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Brian Whelahan to run for Fine Gael

Post by Bord na Mona man »

turk wrote:
Plain of the Herbs wrote:My understanding is they take one off the top of each pile until they have what they need, but I may be corrected on this.

Maybe the reason being that theose votes may need to be re-distributed if the receiver is either elected or eliminated subsequently.
Ya, they take them randomly, as far as I know. The e-voting machines were even programmed to do this randomly
Jaypers.
The e-voting would have been a good opportunity to get rid of the randomness of the transfer system.

GreatDayForTheParish
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Re: Brian Whelahan to run for Fine Gael

Post by GreatDayForTheParish »

So far, I believe you are all incorect.

Regarding transfers it is done as follows:

Lets imagine that the quota for the uibhfhaili.com council elections is 300. Plain of the Herbs, having mobilised all of Lusmagh, romps home with 400 votes. He is deemed elected and surplus of 100 is redistributed.

The remainder of the candidates, following the first count, scored as follows:
Lone Shark: 200
Bord na Mona Man: 150
GreatDayForTheParish: 100

Now for the distribution of surplus. This is the important bit: ALL of Plain of the Herbs 400 first preference votes are recounted and ALL of his second preferences noted. For example lets say that of these 400 votes, 260 second preferences went to the Lone Shark, 100 to Bord na Mona Man and 40 to GreatDayForTheParish. Plain of the Herbs surplus was 100 ,exactly a quarter of his total vote which was 400. This ratio, a quarter or 25%, is then applied to the disrtibution of the surplus.

Thus in working out the values for the second counts the Lone Shark would receive 25% of 260, in other words 60 votes.
Bord na Mona Man would recieve 25% of 100, or 25 votes.
And finally GreatDayForTheParish would receive 25% of 40, or 10 votes.

The second count would thus finish as follows:
Lone Shark: 200+60=260
Bord na Mona Man: 150+25=175
GreatDayForTheParish: 100+10=110.


I hope that has been explained somewhat clearly. The key thing is that random votes are NOT just taken off bundles and deemed all of a sudden to be the surplus. Each remaining candidate instead receives the correct ratio of votes they are entitled to based on ALL of the elected (or eliminated) candidates votes.

For those who are interested and who perhaps thought the above explanation was rubbish, a very good description of the whole process can be found at http://www.rte.ie/news/elections/prstv.html

If any of the above is wrong I am open to corrections.

And finally, congratulations Plain of the Herbs, a great victory!

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Brian Whelahan to run for Fine Gael

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Sounds grand so far. But what about when a candidate exceeds the quota after we'll say half a dozen counts.

Say in the Offaly example here.
Dervill Dolan exceeded the quota by 460 after Count 9 and the 460 surplus was distributed in count 10.
Where would the ratio for the 460 have been derived from?
By looking back at the stack of ballots where he got 1st preferences and seeing who got the no 2?
Or by also drilling through the other ballot papers where got transfers an and seeing who was the next person after him on the preferences?

http://www.offaly.ie/eng/Services/Your_ ... re_LEA.pdf

http://www.offaly.ie/eng/Services/Your_ ... re_LEA.pdf

There seems to me to be an element of randomness introduced by the order in which candidates are eliminated.
A weaker candidate who goes early might be more use to his running mate than one who stays in the reckoning till late on.

GreatDayForTheParish
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Re: Brian Whelahan to run for Fine Gael

Post by GreatDayForTheParish »

Forgive me but I'm going to take the easy option. http://www.rte.ie/news/elections/prstv.html will answer any questions you may have far better than I can.

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turk
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Re: Brian Whelahan to run for Fine Gael

Post by turk »

GreatDayForTheParish wrote:So far, I believe you are all incorect.

Regarding transfers it is done as follows:

Lets imagine that the quota for the uibhfhaili.com council elections is 300. Plain of the Herbs, having mobilised all of Lusmagh, romps home with 400 votes. He is deemed elected and surplus of 100 is redistributed.

The remainder of the candidates, following the first count, scored as follows:
Lone Shark: 200
Bord na Mona Man: 150
GreatDayForTheParish: 100

Now for the distribution of surplus. This is the important bit: ALL of Plain of the Herbs 400 first preference votes are recounted and ALL of his second preferences noted. For example lets say that of these 400 votes, 260 second preferences went to the Lone Shark, 100 to Bord na Mona Man and 40 to GreatDayForTheParish. Plain of the Herbs surplus was 100 ,exactly a quarter of his total vote which was 400. This ratio, a quarter or 25%, is then applied to the disrtibution of the surplus.
Agreed
GreatDayForTheParish wrote:
Thus in working out the values for the second counts the Lone Shark would receive 25% of 260, in other words 60 votes.
Bord na Mona Man would recieve 25% of 100, or 25 votes.
And finally GreatDayForTheParish would receive 25% of 40, or 10 votes.

The second count would thus finish as follows:
Lone Shark: 200+60=260
Bord na Mona Man: 150+25=175
GreatDayForTheParish: 100+10=110.
Agreed

But how do Lone Shark, Bord na Mona Man and yourself get the extra 60, 25 and 10 votes added to their piles? I believe that these are taken randomly from the second preference piles from Plain of the herbs' votes.

So for example, Lone shark will get 60 extra papers added to his pile. But there were 260 actual second preferences based on number 2's from Plain of the herbs. So 60 papers are taken randomly from the pile of 260 ballot papers votes which are "POTH's papers with LS as second preferences"

That's how I believe it works.

Bracknaghman
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Re: Brian Whelahan to run for Fine Gael

Post by Bracknaghman »

bracknaghboy wrote:
It looks like something you'd see in North Korea, if they had elections there!!
:lol:

I know who I and most of Bracknagh will be voting for:

Bracknagh man on comeback trail

Date: 01 April 2009
By Grace O'Dea
A BRACKNAGH man will attempt to regain his lost seat on Offaly County Council in June's local elections.
Frank Weir lost his seat in the 2004 elections after serving as a Fianna Fáil councillor from 1991 to 2004.

He said a hip replacement in May 2004 prevented him from canvassing and led to him losing his seat on the council. This time around, he will run as an independent candidate.

Mr Weir said his main priorities are housing, employment, the upgrading of water schemes, major road improvement, village renewal schemes, designation of sites for industrial development and better health services.

A keen sportsman, he played with Gracefield and Offaly winning many county championships and played on the first Offaly senior football team ever to play in an All-Ireland Final.

http://www.offalyexpress.ie/15396/Brack ... 5127014.jp


193 votes??????????

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