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Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:23 pm
by Lone Shark
DD wrote: Lone shark, We have been high profile long enough particularly as a dual county to be in a position to negotiate good sponsorship deals. I don't have an issue with what Seamus Carroll is coughing up, but I do have a problem if as I suspect, we are not actively pursuing other options.
I also beg to differ on the exposure Carrolls have got from Offaly GAA - you use the current situation when are teams are struggling but Carroll Meats/Cuisine are synonumous with the Offaly jersey - I'd say there's not a GAA follower in the country that doesn't associate with the name..
The sponsorship issue is like the many others with Offaly GAA, the lack of qualified coaches, the inadequate academies and all the other sitting on hands saying everything is going to be ok, but without it we can't move forward on the other issues.
Are we though? Are we high profile in terms of the country, or are we just high profile in our own heads? I'm not trying to sound critical, but there's not too many counties out there who haven't made either a football or hurling quarter final in five years, who haven't won a provincial title at any grade in that time and whose outings on TV have largely ended with Dublin footballers or Kilkenny hurlers making a show of us. This is not meant to be rude but I have to be blunt - if you walk into the office of the marketing manager of a company and you present him with that CV of underachievement you will get laughed out of it. We can pursue other options all we like but unless you get a generous guy with a huge budget who's originally from Edenderry or Coolderry you'll get nowhere.

Other people knowing that Carroll Cuisine sponsor Offaly is fine, but does that mean that they'll choose that product over Denny or Galtee? I do, because I'm from Offaly and it's the least I can do, but I don't go to Supermacs just because I know they sponsor Galway, or buy Wexford Cheddar because they sponsor the yellowbellies. Awareness of your existence is only worth so much and I've yet to hear anyone give me real numbers why we should be getting any more sponsorship money than we already are.

You're last line is worrying in the extreme. If people take the attitude that any solution we come up with is dependent on huge investment to get off the ground, then we are in real difficulty. We have to live in the world of the possible - not the ideal. I'm not saying that we're earning the most money as a county board that we could be, but equally we have to live within our means and proposing grand solutions that will cost €300k a year is pointless to a certain degree.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:25 pm
by Lone Shark
azoffaly wrote:Maybe Fianna Fáil will sponsor us now? :D

Maybe not sponsor. A digout though might be okay. We've just gone through a rough separation with our county board chairman and hurling manager after all.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:28 pm
by Kevin
Hi Over the Black Spot,

If you look at suckindiesel's other post from a long, long time ago I think you might reconsider your thinking that this is OF under a new pen name.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:48 pm
by Muck Savage
I've been very interested in the comments posted here by everyone for a few different reasons. This has been a very good debate and some good ideas have been floated out there to get improvement into a county that is long resting on its history.
I'm going to ask a few questions however. How many people on this board, LS, AZ, OF, etc., are currently, or have been, involved in any GAA club/county board outside of playing? There is a huge amount of work involved in it and anyone on the current or past county boards have full time jobs as well. Now, take your own situation, you get home from work say 6pm, are you prepared to get back into a car after the dinner say at 7pm and go working at improving Offaly GAA three or four nights a week and then at the weekend spend another 5-6 hours doing the same? This is going to be pay free of course. Getting a coaching paper, takes time. Again will you do this. I liken this to lads sitting in a pub saying that this move or that move should have been made after the match, saying that this lad or that lad has no passion in the game when all of these lads their talking about have put in long hours getting ready for that game.
I see quotes like
"I'd encourage you to go to the CB with these ideas" - But will you go along with him and voice the concern as many rather than one?
"Waste of time doing this as no-one will listen in the club" - most clubs are always looking for people to join minor boards or help with underage teams. Why not go down and get involved at this level? Let's be honest, it's at underage level the work is needed.

We can all use the excuse of work/family/kids/not living in Offaly etc. That's crap if you ask me, 12-15 people posted on this topic in the last week, why not do something about it?
I've served as Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer and Register on club boards. I coached/trained underage and adult teams as well as play at both club and inter-county level. Every one of these positions took a massive amount of work and time. I don’t have any coaching papers, just haven’t been able to get the time to get them, but I will this year. I’m currently playing at home even though I live away, but am involved in training a minor football team in a club away from home because I think I can make a difference. This coaching won’t improve Offaly football (it might be a benefit to Offaly as I’ll be damaging talent in a different county!) but it actions!

Lets have a quick look around, anyone want to start a committee to start addressing these issues? Minor board positions are usually easy enough to get if ye attend a meeting, and even if you don’t you can still pick one up. Never mind the County board and the senior teams, too late to change what’s in motion. Start at the base.

We can all give ideas on what needs to be done, Christ, I’ll give you hundreds that I think would make a difference. Problem is implementation of these ideas and most importantly people to implement these ideas.

Time to Stand up and fight lads!

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:19 pm
by Offalys Future
ggggggggggggggg

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:30 pm
by Treasurer
A small starting point....

There is currently a review in progress of underage structures/development etc and as part of this review clubs were issued with a fairly straightforward questionnaire to complete - only four clubs out of the forty-three have bothered to return this questionnaire. Any of you that are involved in clubs might ask about it.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:40 pm
by azoffaly
Fair comment Muck Savage, and I'll address then bit by bit, because you ask a few questions.
Muck Savage wrote:I've been very interested in the comments posted here by everyone for a few different reasons. This has been a very good debate and some good ideas have been floated out there to get improvement into a county that is long resting on its history.
I'm going to ask a few questions however. How many people on this board, LS, AZ, OF, etc., are currently, or have been, involved in any GAA club/county board outside of playing?
Speaking for myself, I have been involved in starting a club, fundraising, organising tournaments etc etc with a club in the US. The same club hosted the All Star hurlers in 2003 and is still going, so I hope we did something right. Having said that, I have not been involved at a local level at home beyond playing, and helping out with coaching schoolkids a bit.
There is a huge amount of work involved in it and anyone on the current or past county boards have full time jobs as well. Now, take your own situation, you get home from work say 6pm, are you prepared to get back into a car after the dinner say at 7pm and go working at improving Offaly GAA three or four nights a week and then at the weekend spend another 5-6 hours doing the same? This is going to be pay free of course. Getting a coaching paper, takes time. Again will you do this. I liken this to lads sitting in a pub saying that this move or that move should have been made after the match, saying that this lad or that lad has no passion in the game when all of these lads their talking about have put in long hours getting ready for that game.
All of that is beyond argument. I don't think anyone said any differently. What is being suggested is that the right things are not being done. No-one doubts the effort that the lads, and ladies of course, are putting in, but the point is are they doing a good job? Or could they do a few things differently? I don't think this is a case of Viva la revolution.
I see quotes like
"I'd encourage you to go to the CB with these ideas" - But will you go along with him and voice the concern as many rather than one?
"Waste of time doing this as no-one will listen in the club" - most clubs are always looking for people to join minor boards or help with underage teams. Why not go down and get involved at this level? Let's be honest, it's at underage level the work is needed.
Regarding the first quote, I think that's mine, I would support any move to air these ideas, but as I said, we have 9 months or so to talk to people, lobby for support etc. etc. I would have no problem chatting to lads in Ferbane when I'm home, and if we had a concrete set of proposals we all agreed on, I'd like to think we could all do a bit to ensure it is raised in a few clubs across the county. Maybe one of these would filter through at least, and engender debate at CB level. It is underage we are talking about mainly anyway. The point about getting involved at underage level is well made, but without the coaching expertise that we are looking at the CB funding in the form of well run academies or whatever, that's a seperate thing altogether, unless any of us have their coaching qualifications and are not using them. The point is that the CB is not using any coaches we may have correctly.
We can all use the excuse of work/family/kids/not living in Offaly etc. That's crap if you ask me, 12-15 people posted on this topic in the last week, why not do something about it?
How about all four. Sometimes you have to be realistic as well. I personally am not in a position at the moment to commit to an arduous undertaking like this, at least up in Ferbane, but that does not negate my right to support, or indeed suggest, improvements. I've already said that the CB and indeed Club boards put in a lot of effort, but is it the effort expended in the correct way?
I've served as Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer and Register on club boards. I coached/trained underage and adult teams as well as play at both club and inter-county level. Every one of these positions took a massive amount of work and time. I don’t have any coaching papers, just haven’t been able to get the time to get them, but I will this year. I’m currently playing at home even though I live away, but am involved in training a minor football team in a club away from home because I think I can make a difference. This coaching won’t improve Offaly football (it might be a benefit to Offaly as I’ll be damaging talent in a different county!) but it actions!
I'm not sure what point you are making here. You seem to be suggesting that we don't respect the effort being put in or something? I do, but I do feel the structures themselves need an overhaul. I don't have coaching papers either, but I am going to try myself as well. I will also be trying my best to damage local talent, but at least it's only Tipperary :D
Lets have a quick look around, anyone want to start a committee to start addressing these issues? Minor board positions are usually easy enough to get if ye attend a meeting, and even if you don’t you can still pick one up. Never mind the County board and the senior teams, too late to change what’s in motion. Start at the base.

We can all give ideas on what needs to be done, Christ, I’ll give you hundreds that I think would make a difference. Problem is implementation of these ideas and most importantly people to implement these ideas.

Time to Stand up and fight lads!
This is what I was suggesting in an earlier post. Why not try and come up with a few ideas, and then bring the message to our own clubs. Get it on the agenda for club AGMs, and mandate county delegates to raise it at County Board level. At least it might do something in the form of forcing a re-think, even if the ideas themselves are dismissed.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:42 pm
by azoffaly
Treasurer wrote:A small starting point....

There is currently a review in progress of underage structures/development etc and as part of this review clubs were issued with a fairly straightforward questionnaire to complete - only four clubs out of the forty-three have bothered to return this questionnaire. Any of you that are involved in clubs might ask about it.
Treas, do you have a copy of that? If we are serious about this, that would be a good document to look at. The fact that only 4 clubs responded is a disgrace.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:22 pm
by ballymanabroad
Is there a copy of that questionnaire that we could download somewhere?

Also this is the first I have heard about it - no I'm not secretary or PRO of my club - so has it been promoted in the local papers?

In fact why can't the CB use this site to promote ideas? There are far more lurkers than contributers on this site so a message would spread quickly if it was advertised here. I certainly check it far more than http://www.offaly.gaa.ie

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:35 pm
by DD
ballymanabroad wrote:Is there a copy of that questionnaire that we could download somewhere?

Also this is the first I have heard about it - no I'm not secretary or PRO of my club - so has it been promoted in the local papers?

In fact why can't the CB use this site to promote ideas? There are far more lurkers than contributers on this site so a message would spread quickly if it was advertised here. I certainly check it far more than http://www.offaly.gaa.ie
There's a couple of lines about it (but no detail) in this weeks Express as part of the "In Brief" review of the minor match. I haven't seen or heard anything else about it.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:47 pm
by Treasurer
Most of it is fairly basic, but the last question is wide open for clubs to make any and all contributions they wish.

Does your club have an elected Coaching Officer
Does your club have liaison person with your local school
Does your club provide coaching personnel to the school
If YES, how many hours per week
Does your club provide any of the following to the school
Goalposts
Footballs
Sliothars
Hurleys
Jerseys
Training cones
Transport or cost of transport
Payment of referees for school games
Grounds prepared for games
Does your club have a uniform coaching guideline for underage coaches How many of your underage coaches have achieved:
Foundation Level Certification
Level 1 Certification
Does your club have a clear understanding of the following:
Purpose of the Academies
Purpose of the Development Squads
Role of County Board Coaching Officer
Role of County Board Hurling Officer
Role of County Board Football Officer
Role of County Board Youth Officer
Is it reasonable to judge success of Academy/ Development Squads
by performance of Inter County Minor Teams
On a scale of 1-4, 1=Very satisfied; 2=Satisfied; 3=Dissatisfied
4=Very Dissatisfied, please rate performance of the following 1---4
Football Academy
Hurling Academy
Football Development Squads
Hurling Development Squads
Coaching in Schools by County Board Coaches
Coaching in Clubs by County Board Coaches
Offaly Minor Football team performance
Offaly Minor Hurling team performance
Summer Camps
How would your club propose to improve Coaching & Games Development in Offaly

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:53 am
by Over The Black Spot
Treasurer wrote:Most of it is fairly basic, but the last question is wide open for clubs to make any and all contributions they wish.

Does your club have an elected Coaching Officer
.
.
.
How would your club propose to improve Coaching & Games Development in Offaly
I serve as an officer of my club treasurer and I wasn't even aware this questionnaire existed but I will definitely be ringing my secretary in the next couple of hours to find out and will ensure it's discussed at next weeks committee meeting. Some very worthwhile questions on there which, if the responses are taken on board, would have to be seen as a positive step forward, albeit a baby step but in the right direction nonetheless.

The one thing I'm very curious about is the issue of 'qualified' coaches. Just looking to open it to discussion but do people think it should only be people who do these courses that should coach teams or is there a place in the GAA for those who have the knowledge of the games and coaching acquired naturally from involvement in the game??? I just get the impression, and not just from here, that people are almost advocating a soccer-like system where you can't coach without your 'badges'.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:55 am
by Shamrocks Rover
First time poster,Long time visitor, our club only received this by Email late last night with a Friday return by date , so it is a bit unfair to blame the clubs when it wasnt sent out to them until now..
I dont know how 4 clubs have responded before the rest of us receive the document.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:01 pm
by Treasurer
Shamrocks, last night's issue of the questionnaire was the third time it was sent out.

Re: Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:04 pm
by Treasurer
Over The Black Spot wrote:
Treasurer wrote: The one thing I'm very curious about is the issue of 'qualified' coaches. Just looking to open it to discussion but do people think it should only be people who do these courses that should coach teams or is there a place in the GAA for those who have the knowledge of the games and coaching acquired naturally from involvement in the game??? I just get the impression, and not just from here, that people are almost advocating a soccer-like system where you can't coach without your 'badges'.
That's something I'm a bit concerned about too, that we get too bogged down in having paperwork in place and consequently lose good coaches who haven't done the courses.