The Throwing problem in hurling

[Sheepdog]

Well lads long time reader just said I'd register to post this as its very important for the future of our great game.

Conor o Donovan from nenagh is bringing a motion to Congress on Saturday 21st February regarding the ongoing and worsening plague of players throwing the ball in hurling.
Referees have ignored the existing rule for years which has resulted in the shitshow we have now.
There's no integrity in hurling anymore. We pride ourselves on having the most skilful sport in the world but nowadays its common too see teams stringing 5 or 6 throws together without a ball been struck.
The enforce the rule ship has long sailed its time for change
Just wondering what are peoples thoughts?

[ryot]

Legalise the throw or insist on refs enforcing the existing rule....

IMO 90% OF SO-CALLED HANDPASSES ARE FOULS AND IRRITATE ME !!!!

[SearingDrive]

Legalise the throw or insist on refs enforcing the existing rule....

IMO 90% OF SO-CALLED HANDPASSES ARE FOULS AND IRRITATE ME !!!!

I agree with both opinions, the handpassing rules are breached regularly at Inter county level. If the rule is there IMPLEMENT IT.

[Lone Shark]

The problem is not the rule, the problem is the lack of enforcement, so I'm not sure what a motion will do, other than maybe signal that this is something that hurling people want addressed.


However I would qualify that by saying that I don't know how badly they really do want it addressed either. Because while your stereotypical hurling supporter doesn't necessarily want to see the ball being thrown around the place, he also doesn't want to watch a game where there are a dozen extra stoppages and frees awarded - and there isn't necessarily the self awareness to understand that you need to go through that, in order to get to a point where throwing the sliotar isn't the done thing.

I'm going from memory here, but I think it was 2022 where I watched Offaly hurl against Meath in OCP and it was Michael Kennedy of Tipperary that refereed, and he gave somewhere between 15 and 20 frees for throwing the ball, it was a horrendous game to watch as a result. Back then there was a similar outcry about how we're going to have to do something about constantly throwing the ball, and Kennedy clearly decided he was going to lay down a marker.

Then I went from there to Nowlan Park to report on Kilkenny versus Laois, where the handpasses were broadly similar, and whoever was reffing that one didn't give a single free. And woe betide any referee who would take charge of a big game in Munster and be ruthless on the throw like that. If you did that to Limerick, a certain wing back would probably set his brothers after you.

People just don't want to see games with lots of frees in them, and they're not willing to swallow that pill to get this annoying trend out of the game. That's the problem, not the rules.

[Sheepdog]

The current rule was fine when there was only ten handpasses in a match.
Now teams whole game plan is based around off the shoulder running "pop pass". A current intercounty ref said to me "I don't ref the handpass why would I bring that hardship on myself ".
The way the game is been played now suits big athletic gym monkeys who can bust through tackles all day and throw the ball off to the next man. This isnt going to suit our golden generation of current under 20s at senior level.
The proposed rule change is that you cannot handpass the ball directly from the hand that is holding. You can only handpass off the Hurley or throw it up with one hand and handpass it with the other.
Its vital for this to be voted through

[Plain of the Herbs]

My thoughts? The ‘throwing problem’ in hurling is overstated.

The ball doesn’t have to be released six inches before being palmed in order for it to be a valid handpass. Now many might only be released a fraction, but in general there is a double movement, just not visible to Joe Armchair watching on TV. And if Joe Armchair cared to slow it down he would see this. And no referee is going to risk incorrectly blowing what materialises to be a legitimate handpass.

Anyway, the solution proposed by O’Donovan (who incidentally came to Nenagh from Limerick, with whom he hurled Minor) is not practical. A hurler, surrounded by two opposing hurlers and hemmed in on the sideline and needing to release the ball has no hope of either hopping the ball of the hurl and passing with the other hand, or of switching grip. His only option is to drop the ball and create a ruck. That’s ridiculous.

Introducing new rules because existing ones aren’t enforced is bad law. That’s the kind of stuff that sees a 36mph speed limit on the road between Banagher and Lusmagh, wide enough for two cars and with no houses because it traverses a flood plain.

I watched one of Offaly Minor hurlers’ 2023 Leinster championship games from the stand. A prominent intercounty referee (not from Offaly, from the opposition) was in the row behind me. He cried ‘throw!’ every time an Offaly hurler played a handpass. None of them were throws. So people see what they want to see.

But spare a thought for the Tipp supremacists. And they the Premier county. They have watched Limerick dominate hurling for the last half dozen years. Four All-Irelands in a row, five in all, six Munsters in a row. Tipperary are the chief objectors to this, and in my opinion it stems from jealousy. In my opinion, they’re the ones with the problem.

[Sheepdog]

My thoughts? The ‘throwing problem’ in hurling is overstated.

The ball doesn’t have to be released six inches before being palmed in order for it to be a valid handpass. Now many might only be released a fraction, but in general there is a double movement, just not visible to Joe Armchair watching on TV. And if Joe Armchair cared to slow it down he would see this. And no referee is going to risk incorrectly blowing what materialises to be a legitimate handpass.

Anyway, the solution proposed by O’Donovan (who incidentally came to Nenagh from Limerick, with whom he hurled Minor) is not practical. A hurler, surrounded by two opposing hurlers and hemmed in on the sideline and needing to release the ball has no hope of either hopping the ball of the hurl and passing with the other hand, or of switching grip. His only option is to drop the ball and create a ruck. That’s ridiculous.

Introducing new rules because existing ones aren’t enforced is bad law. That’s the kind of stuff that sees a 36mph speed limit on the road between Banagher and Lusmagh, wide enough for two cars and with no houses because it traverses a flood plain.

I watched one of Offaly Minor hurlers’ 2023 Leinster championship games from the stand. A prominent intercounty referee (not from Offaly, from the opposition) was in the row behind me. He cried ‘throw!’ every time an Offaly hurler played a handpass. None of them were throws. So people see what they want to see.

But spare a thought for the Tipp supremacists. And they the Premier county. They have watched Limerick dominate hurling for the last half dozen years. Four All-Irelands in a row, five in all, six Munsters in a row. Tipperary are the chief objectors to this, and in my opinion it stems from jealousy. In my opinion, they’re the ones with the problem.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0 ... le-change/

[Plain of the Herbs]

There is a headline to that piece you linked, but there is no further reference to 75% of anything in the body of the piece. Where is the evidence to back it up? What is the sample size? What matches are involved? Over what period of time? We don't know.

Much of the piece is Barry Kelly's opinion. To which he is entitled, the same as the rest of us. But in the opinion of the former referee behind me that day that I referred to, 100% of the Offaly handpasses were illegal, which I know that they were not.

And the risk at Congress is that the football counties are going to legislate on hurling to put it back in box, to slow it down. That is the fear.

[bracknaghboy]

The ball doesn’t have to be released six inches before being palmed in order for it to be a valid handpass. Now many might only be released a fraction, but in general there is a double movement, just not visible to Joe Armchair watching on TV. And if Joe Armchair cared to slow it down he would see this. And no referee is going to risk incorrectly blowing what materialises to be a legitimate handpass.

You need to have a read of the rules!
A handpass per the Official Hurling Rules is defined as

Terms and Definitions:
10. "The ball shall be released and struck with a definite striking action of the hand".

Also.....

Rules of Foul Play
Rule 4 Technical Fouls
4.2 (a) "To throw the ball".
(b) "To handpass the ball without it being released and struck with a definite striking action of the hand".

The rule is clear, it needs to be a "definite strike" not some invisible "double movement" that certain people want to believe they are seeing so as to have a faster game!!!

Look, everyone knew what a hand pass looked like for decades, nothing has changed, it's ridiculous we are even having to have this conversation.

[joe bloggs]

Its a blight on the game, and I don't agree either with POTH about the double movement.
We don't need new rules, just enforcement.

Sometimes you see a "handpass" that defies the laws of physics and still.the referee ignores it.
It would take no more thsn two rounds of the NHL and proper refereeing to clamp down on it.

[Bord na Mona man]

Once there is any separation from the ball and hand before the striking action, it's a valid handpass.
Last year on the Sunday Game they reviewed one that got penalised. On a zoomed in, slowed down, hdtv replay, there was clearance before the ball was struck, no free should have been given.

The handpassing rules would need to be modified rather than a change in referee behaviour. In all aspects of the game, referees only blow the whistle when they are convinced an infraction has taken place.

[private joker]

Rules state a definite separation, if you need to slow down, multiple replays on high definition tv then its not definite separation?. Is that the spirit of the rule,?

[Bord na Mona man]

Rules state a definite separation, if you need to slow down, multiple replays on high definition tv then its not definite separation?. Is that the spirit of the rule,?

If the ball crosses by the goal line by only a couple of inches, should the goal be awarded, or should it be only awarded if the punter sitting in the stand could plainly see it?

[Plain of the Herbs]

Some body define 'definite separation'. Until that's clarified then any degree of separation is a definite one.

Anyway, rules only apply to the little counties. They don't apply to the Munster counties. So the only ones going to be caught out by a clampdown are the likes of ourselves, Carlow and the rest. Any ref applying rules in the Munster championship is going to require a hotline to Justin Campbell.

Dammit, different faceguard rules seem to apply to Offaly than everybody else.

[Bord na Mona man]

We've come a long way from 1981, Johnny Flaherty tosses the ball up a few inches and then swats it to the net. Galway people, in their tens of thousands, adamant that he threw the ball into the net.

Nowadays, he'd be ticked off by a coach for throwing it up too high.