Offaly Senior A Hurling Championship 2023

[greenairfield]

Seen enough V Shinrone

[frankthetank]

I’m probably over thinking this but could Ferbane’s win yesterday vs Rhode and possible championship success expedite the decline of Belmont hurling?

Players might view football success as far more attainable in the short to medium term and decide to focus much more on that than hurling.

I’m not privvy to how they work it between Ferbane and Belmont but if one code starts to really be successful it’s probably a natural progression that the other will suffer particularly when there has been no tangible success to point to. Along of course with a large overlap of players.

[Lone Shark]

I’m probably over thinking this but could Ferbane’s win yesterday vs Rhode and possible championship success expedite the decline of Belmont hurling?

Players might view football success as far more attainable in the short to medium term and decide to focus much more on that than hurling.

I’m not privvy to how they work it between Ferbane and Belmont but if one code starts to really be successful it’s probably a natural progression that the other will suffer particularly when there has been no tangible success to point to. Along of course with a large overlap of players.

I very much doubt it. The two clubs went years going nowhere, all the while battling each other for territory, fighting for the hearts and minds of the players by both fair means and foul, and as a result forcing many of them to pick one side or the other. Naturally, that led to both Ferbane and Belmont underachieving, relative to their potential.

It took a long time, but thanks to a lot of hard work, diplomacy and patience from some very good people, the "burn all hurls" people were manoeuvred out of Ferbane, the "put a knife in every football" people were pushed to one side in Belmont, and the two clubs have thrived at both adult and underage level as a result. The ethos of co-existence is absolutely central to how both clubs are run, even more so than it is in the majority of areas where it's just the one club playing two sports.

With a bit of luck, the parish could easily have had four or five senior titles, split between football and hurling, over the past six or seven seasons. So even if it's the case that we haven't won as much as might have been the case, no-one could argue that the current approach hasn't worked.

Moreover, in a world where over half the starting Ferbane and Belmont senior teams are dual players, it doesn't matter if "the majority" pick one side or the other - if you don't create a culture that allows playing both to thrive, then it's no good saying that out of the 15 dual players in our senior panel, ten will pick football and five will pick hurling. It still means both panels lose out, probably to the point that neither are legitimate title contenders.

Finally, the Belmont senior hurlers had a poor year this year, with Oisín Kelly out for the entire year and David Nally either out or else not fit for the championship - i.e., two of the best hurlers in Offaly, not just in our parish. I don't think anyone could look at that and say that decline is inevitable. Possible? Sure, just like it's possible anywhere. But certainly not inevitable.

[Onionbag]

Weekend 1/4s

Coolderry 1-17 St Rynagh's 2-12

Birr 2-14 Shinrone 3-15.

I feel Shinrone and Birr will get into semi final.

I know there's an open draw the so hard to predict from there on.

[Dodge83]

Weekend 1/4s

Coolderry 1-17 St Rynagh's 2-12

Birr 2-14 Shinrone 3-15.

I feel Shinrone and Birr will get into semi final.

I know there's an open draw the so hard to predict from there on.

I not sure you understand knockout hurling if you think both Shinrone & Birr will get into the semi final

[Onionbag]

Typo..

Of course I meant Shinrone and Coolderry....

[frankthetank]

Shinrone and Banagher for me.

[timber]

Wait now the Belmont game they scraped over. A team minus their best two hurlers.
Look what Coolderry done to Belmont.

Who else have they beaten?

Other than the last 15 against Shinrone I think they have been average at best. If they play any of KK Banagher or Birr they will lose.

I don't know what you have against them but I think you have been harsh on ballinamere/ durrow.

right let's be honest, the standard of offaly senior club hurling at present is weak and I'm in no doubt on that. and putting it in the context of offaly hurling at present, ballinamere are 1 of the strongest clubs at present. I don't know if they realise it, but its actually a golden opportunity for them to win a championship.

it is a huge big parish and they always have big numbers togging out. older lads always stay involved. they are prob favourites to win championship in 3 adult hurling grades this year if you look at the form. the two junior teams are hammering everybody. now if they really want to win a senior a few of these juniors could offer great support coming in late in a game. but that's their call and if they are happy to risk a junior title to put everything into senior.

I suppose they have always been in the shadow of their neighbouring clubs who were all dual senior clubs over the years. but have put in place great underage structures over the years and come a long way.

i think the traditional "hurling" clubs of offaly have all regressed and this feeds into where offaly hurling is at. so its a golden opportunity now for a new team to take advantage.

[jimbob17]

Was interested in your assertion of Ballinamere Durrow being a big parish as I had always figured it to be a small enough area. So I did a bit of digging - see pic attached in link.
[https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/coun ... falyrc.php][/img]

So it is quite clear from this that it isnt even a parish and is part of Tullamore parish which is a reasonable size but of which the majority is taken up by Tullamore itself. Durrow is to the North of Tullamore on road to Kilbeggan and is sparsely enough populated though there were some houses built there over last 20 years or so. This is traditionally a football area and there would have been plenty of localised disagreements between Durrow football and Ballinamere hurling going back the years over player access etc when both were inter or junior clubs. I am told that the hierarchy in one of these clubs still may have issues with he other but that in the main, the small town thinking is being slowly replaced by the positivity and vibrancy that is coming off the underage work. The fact is that Ballinamere is a fairly small area to the north west of Tullamore and has had some new housing in last 20 years also but in the main is only about a 2 mile radius at the very most outside the town on the North West side as both Clara and Rahan parish cut in there very close to Esker Hills Golf Club. Tullamore has a very big country area out around Ballydaly that all feeds in to Tullamore GAA on north and east also, while the rest is made up of the town itself and suburban area around the town, connecting with the larger Daingean, Killeigh and Rahan parishes which mainly wrap around the town.

Ballinamere have built from ground up off a lot of effort at underage and it is now bearing some fruit. They are picking off 2 middle sized primary schools but id be interested to see the statistics in terms of the level of engagement and traction of primary students off these schools versus the significantly more populated areas of their neighbouring clubs in Tullamore, Clara and Shamrocks clubs, and with the Daingean and Killeigh parish schools, all of which are full parishes and have huge areas in comparison.

I know from other counties that the GAA are actively tracking these types of figures to ascertain which clubs are working well and which are working not so well. Anybody have any data on Offaly figures in terms of traction and retention rates at underage?

If they are doing well, good for them and well done to them. It would have been unforeseeable 10 years ago to see them in a senior hurling semi final. Maybe other clubs should take a leaf out of whatever Ballinamere are doing and see if it improves their lot somewhat. If we had 10 or 12 clubs improving in the way that Ballinamere have done, the county would be very strong in hurling and we would be back up in Liam McCarthy. Time for some of the other clubs to up their game I think, rather than belittling a smaller club that has gone and tried to improve itself.

[greenairfield]

Well I think that is the thing the standard is poor across the board and I think we are overestimating Ballinamere.
The championship is very open but I wasn't impressed with Belmont this year and I know Oisin Kelly was missing but overall they looked like they had gone backwards and Ballinamere struggled over them.
In relation to the shinrone game they were fairly poor until the last 15 minutes.
It's just an opinion and I think they may struggle in the semi final who ever they face.

[SearingDrive]

Well I think that is the thing the standard is poor across the board and I think we are overestimating Ballinamere.
The championship is very open but I wasn't impressed with Belmont this year and I know Oisin Kelly was missing but overall they looked like they had gone backwards and Ballinamere struggled over them.
In relation to the shinrone game they were fairly poor until the last 15 minutes.
It's just an opinion and I think they may struggle in the semi final who ever they face.

Ballinamere overturned a 4 point deficit v Shinrone, scoring 7 points without reply, to win by 3 points. That makes them contenders.

[timber]

I agree. more luck to Ballinamere/Durrow. They have made great progress and there is massive massive interest inside the club. look at the score their junior A team put up against Crinkle and all other games. Thats not lads playing hurling socially. its fairly obvious they have huge numbers training and turning up consistently. i know a few lads hurling with their juniors and they are ruthlessly adament that they are not going to let the seniors poach any of their better boys. So they are fairly passionate about winning junior titles too which most other clubs use more for players that are less commited.

Other clubs, my own included should be envious of the interest in playing for the club that is present in ballinamere/durrow. i know our own club struggle (always have) to fulfill junior fixtures and getting even the senior lads to train is another battle altogether.

I do agree with greenfield that putting it in context, the standard of adult club hurling in offaly is very weak at present.

Look at Ballinamere/Durrow, Belmont, Tullamore. All dual clubs battling to juggle both codes certainly. The first two are arguably the two best in the county (belmont when at full strenght that is).

The traditional hurling clubs seriously need to see this as a kick in the arse and up their game.

[Anonymous1]

I’m probably over thinking this but could Ferbane’s win yesterday vs Rhode and possible championship success expedite the decline of Belmont hurling?

Players might view football success as far more attainable in the short to medium term and decide to focus much more on that than hurling.

I’m not privvy to how they work it between Ferbane and Belmont but if one code starts to really be successful it’s probably a natural progression that the other will suffer particularly when there has been no tangible success to point to. Along of course with a large overlap of players.

I very much doubt it. The two clubs went years going nowhere, all the while battling each other for territory, fighting for the hearts and minds of the players by both fair means and foul, and as a result forcing many of them to pick one side or the other. Naturally, that led to both Ferbane and Belmont underachieving, relative to their potential.

It took a long time, but thanks to a lot of hard work, diplomacy and patience from some very good people, the "burn all hurls" people were manoeuvred out of Ferbane, the "put a knife in every football" people were pushed to one side in Belmont, and the two clubs have thrived at both adult and underage level as a result. The ethos of co-existence is absolutely central to how both clubs are run, even more so than it is in the majority of areas where it's just the one club playing two sports.

With a bit of luck, the parish could easily have had four or five senior titles, split between football and hurling, over the past six or seven seasons. So even if it's the case that we haven't won as much as might have been the case, no-one could argue that the current approach hasn't worked.

Moreover, in a world where over half the starting Ferbane and Belmont senior teams are dual players, it doesn't matter if "the majority" pick one side or the other - if you don't create a culture that allows playing both to thrive, then it's no good saying that out of the 15 dual players in our senior panel, ten will pick football and five will pick hurling. It still means both panels lose out, probably to the point that neither are legitimate title contenders.

Finally, the Belmont senior hurlers had a poor year this year, with Oisín Kelly out for the entire year and David Nally either out or else not fit for the championship - i.e., two of the best hurlers in Offaly, not just in our parish. I don't think anyone could look at that and say that decline is inevitable. Possible? Sure, just like it's possible anywhere. But certainly not inevitable.

I don’t think it’s a case of Ferbane deciding to pull the shutters down on co-operation with Belmont and forcing players to choose one over the other but rather that the players themselves may come to the realisation that winning a Sean Robbins in the near future looks a lot less likely than winning a Dowling Cup and choosing to focus solely on the football.

I could definitely see that happening regardless of the outcome in next Sunday’s final. If Ferbane lose out, the argument will be “If we didn’t have the hurling in our way all year, we’d have won” and if they win the argument will be “We could win a few of these in a row if we give up the hurling”

“Decline” isn’t inevitable for Belmont but in the face of KK and Ballinamere teams on the rise, it’s very difficult to see Belmont beating either team in knockout games going forward whereas in the football with Rhode finally starting to show signs of a decline and Edenderry underperforming year in year out, Tullamore look to be Ferbane’s only obstacle to more Dowling Cups in the medium term and they have yet to fulfil the promise of their underage success.

[jimbob17]

I wouldn't write Rhode off at all just yet. Likes on Anton and Niall Mac have plenty years left at club level and they have good players coming through again. They drew with Ferbane this year remember too only to lose in ET.

As for hurling, Shinrone and Rynaghs must be licking their lips too the way they are being written off.

[Anonymous1]

I wouldn't write Rhode off at all just yet. Likes on Anton and Niall Mac have plenty years left at club level and they have good players coming through again. They drew with Ferbane this year remember too only to lose in ET.

As for hurling, Shinrone and Rynaghs must be licking their lips too the way they are being written off.

Not writing any of them off just yet but over the next five years or so, most would be expecting KK and Ballinamere to be contesting hurling finals and Tullamore football finals.