On this day 25 years ago

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Bord na Mona man
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On this day 25 years ago

Post by Bord na Mona man »

July 5 1998 Leinster hurling Final Kilkenny 3-10 – Offaly 1-11

The defeat propelled Offaly firstly, into a mini-crisis but ultimately changed the course of the year.
The match was widely slated as being of poor quality but maybe excessively so. Although there were 32,000 in Croke Park, the atmosphere was subdued with both counties knowing they'd be hurling onwards later in the summer with the new 'back-door' system. On a dull, overcast day, there was no Munster Championship-like wildness on the field or in the stands.

The early part of the game was John Troy and Charlie Carter having a shootout among themselves. DJ Carey had recently come back from a surprise early retirement and didn't look a threatening force. His two goals from close in frees in the second half were the difference.
Offaly hadn’t hurled particularly well, but Kilkenny were far from impressive either.

Soon after the Babs Keating affair erupted. Keating put the players under the bus in his post match interview with ‘sheep in a heap’ jibe grabbing the headlines:
“The players just aren't listening to me. We're like sheep running around in a heap. Lots of different attitudes needed in the Offaly hurling camp for the next three weeks. I just wonder am I wasting my time in an Offaly dressing-room. It's a vein running through this Offaly team of individualism. The players just sail along. There's not a lot of disappointment in that dressing-room.''
In another part of his rant he claimed one Offaly player looked like he’d never held a hurl in his hand before in his life. Out of respect to the player, the journalists present didn’t report those comments.

Once Johnny Pilkington publicly pushed back against the comments, Keating was heading for the exit.

At that point the growing sentiment was that Offaly were unmanageable on top of being underachievers. 3 minor All Irelands in the late 1980s had translated to one senior title and the prospect of adding to that was dwindling.
There was the view that the ‘power hurling’ of Klare and Wexford which had annexed the last 3 All Irelands was the blueprint for future success and Offaly were already struggling to keep up.

The following Friday night I remember watching Sideline View tv show where the Offaly crisis was the hot topic. Pete Finnerty had revealed he had been approached about taking the Offaly job the year before. He was revelling in the feeling of having dodged a bullet. So much so that for his newspaper preview of the semi-final, he suggested Offaly call in sick.

Later in the episode it was announced as a breaking news story that an unheard of man from Galway called Michael Bond was taking over the Offaly job. He may just be coming in to be a short-term caretaker, or maybe an undertaker. Who knew.

SearingDrive
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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by SearingDrive »

Big Pete was made to look stupid when Offaly claimed Liam McC in September.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

What Babser said – taken from Vincent Hogan’s piece in the following day’s Irish Independent. Journalists focussed on the ‘sheep’ reference, but there was much more than that. Absolving himself of any blame, of course. And I'd forgotten he insulted Antrim in the middle of the whole thing.
"Couldn't be described as Leinster Senior Championship hurling," he murmurs. "And I've no problem in saying that. My job is to teach and show them what to do. But it appears it's falling on deaf ears."

Keating picks his words slowly, yet the language comes with a hissing sound. "The players just aren't listening to me," he snaps. "We're like sheep running around in a heap."

"We're playing a game that suits the backs. To me, if you're serious about winning Championship games, you open it up."

"Lot of different attitudes needed in the Offaly hurling camp for the next three weeks," he argues. "I hate saying that in the middle of July. These are doubts and phrases I used last October/November when I came to Offaly. Didn't think I'd be repeating them in July.

"I feel awful disappointed with the application of the stick and quality of the play. All of the negatives out there involve areas I've gone over and over again. I just wonder am I wasting my time in an Offaly dressing-room.

"You'd like to think you have something to contribute but, equally, you'd like to think you'd be listened to. I'm not being listened to. It's a vein running through this Offaly team of individualism, of not thinking of their colleagues, not playing for their colleagues. The players just sail along. There's not a lot of disappointment in that dressing-room. They just take every day as it comes."

He scuffs his feet and groans. "We pray to God that we get a good draw on Monday week and, hopefully, meet Antrim. Then we can get back into the same position as the rest of them.”

Without the inscrutable Brian Whelahan (who engaged his manager in a shouting match mid-way through the second period), Offaly might have been embarrassed yesterday.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Yes, I had forgotten that about Antrim quip. If Keating had remained in charge, they would have had serious motivation to tear into Offaly.

Antrim's preparations were disrupted by the Drumcree situation so their hurling still wouldn’t have been up to mark. But the kind of slashing that Jackie Carson did in 1999 to seriously injure Hubert Rigney and Kevin Martin could have happened in 1998 instead.

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by Bord na Mona man »

SearingDrive wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 5:23 pm Big Pete was made to look stupid when Offaly claimed Liam McC in September.
A year later, he was decked out in a full clown outfit when he gave Brian Corcoran MOTM instead of Brian Whelahan.

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by bracknaghboy »

Sure we can poke fun at ol Babs all night if we want.
But a mere 20 years after his rant Offaly were deemed so poor they were no longer even permitted to participate in the Leinster championship, a situation that remains to this day.
Keating reckoned they weren't listening, were running around aimlessly (sheep), had poor stickwork and application with players justing sailing along.
Ok so a talented bunch of players got it together to prove him wrong that year but what he described was probably flowing through Offaly hurling in general which might explain at senior level why Offaly were a non entity from 2002 until entering the dark abyss in 2018.
2002 was just 4 years after "sheep in a heap".
Babs was a prophet before his time, we laughed at him then and we laugh at him now, you'd wonder have we learned anything?

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

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Can’t agree with you there, Brack, so I pulled the Dooley book to see what they said. The recovery owed far far more than merely a bit of shouting and roaring and going out to prove Kay-tin wrong.

Joe: “Babs let him (trainer Johnny Murray) take most of the training sessions and took tings easy himself. Sometimes while we were warming up, he’d be inside on the physio table getting a rub. He had a back problem from playing golf. That sent out the wrong signals. A few minor things like that didn’t rest easy with the players or his fellow selectors.”

Joe, again, on the session on the Sunday before the Wexford match: “This time Johnny Murray had us doing something you’d reserve for pre-season. Before the stadium was redeveloped, there was a hilly grass bank on the hospital side of the pitch. Deciding we needed a blow out, Johnny had us sprinting up the hill about 20 times, one after another.”

Billy: “During the same session, Babs left early as he had somewhere to be. That didn’t send a good message to the squad. I felt it was bad preparation and other players felt the same. We felt he was letting us down a small bit.”

Johnny on the aftermath of the Leinster final. “We felt our underperformance that day was down to the fact we hadn’t enough hurling done. The type of ball work we were doing wasn’t lending itself to how we played. That was the biggest thing. I’d put it down to a clash of hurling styles and a lack of involvement from the manager on the training field.”

Joe on the contrast with Michael Bond: “Most importantly, Bond wanted us to play the style of hurling that suited us. His approach to training was a breath of fresh air. We went back to ground hurling. For the first few weeks, my tongue would be hanging out at training.

“During training games, the ball would hardly be gone dead and another one would be fired in."
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by Bord na Mona man »

The problems boiled down to Keating not being fully tuned in to the role, disowning problems and pinning it on the players, public denouncements instead of keeping it in the dressing room and the style of hurling he wanted not suiting Offaly.

A few weeks previously he was on the brink of resigning when Offaly didn't have 15 players for a challenge against Tipp. He said that this scenario wouldn't happen in a 'traditional' hurling county.
He had managed Leix the two previous years and was similarly disparaging towards them. At one point he dismissed some of the players as not being able to execute certain skills that he himself had already perfected as a 12-year-old.

In his defence, he said the Offaly hiring committee had told him that there was a discipline problem that needed to be addressed. He had the team at a higher standard of fitness as this was an area where Offaly were thought be falling behind on.

In terms of hurling style, what he wanted to play would be more acceptable nowadays. In Michael Duignan's book he described how Keating preferred a centre forward who could win ball, hold it up and then bring others into play. Offaly of that time much preferred a centre forward like John Troy who immediately moved the ball onwards, often without needing to get the ball into his hand.

In the Dooley brothers’ book, Johnny recounts Keating demo-ing how to get in over the ball and fend off opponents in a ruck like situation, whereas the Eamon Cregan blueprint was to move the ball on immediately and not be getting over it.

Keating would probably claim to be visionary, ahead of his time, trying to teach philistines.

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by Fairplayalways »

That game i always have labelled was the real beginning of Kilkennys re claiming back of Leinster from Offaly after the 1980s and mid 1990s (i know we beat them in 1998 All Ireland after) but that game set the tone for some heavy defeats in the Championship in the following years..some players careers were as good as ended i maintain..hard to credit 1995 was our last Leinster senior final...with current championship set up it looking like continuing..

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by Iarafi »

Plain of the Herbs wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:46 pm Can’t agree with you there, Brack, so I pulled the Dooley book to see what they said. The recovery owed far far more than merely a bit of shouting and roaring and going out to prove Kay-tin wrong.
Babs was the wrong man for the job but he was telling a few home truths at the same time. Unfortunately they weren't listened to and some of what he was saying is reflected today. I highly doubt that group of players would have won a second all Ireland if Babs hadn't had his outburst, which is criminal given the talent they had.

Long way to go to get back to the level of a 5 point loss to Kilkenny causing such outcry

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by feirmeoir »

what's Pete Finnerty at now, or where is he gone to?

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by frankthetank »

I saw him in CP on Sunday.

I still find it hard to believe he has 4 All Stars.

And his stint on The Sunday Game is best forgotten.

ah lethimoutwithit
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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by ah lethimoutwithit »

Why is it hard to believe, they were a great team at the time and hurling was not at its zenith, and further more he was part of amazing half back line.
Personally I admired him as a hurler and there were far worse on the Sunday game over the years. Now that is a program that should be befoer the PAC for crimes against the licence fee...utter shite

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

And on this day 25 years ago (9th August 1998) was the drawn Offaly v Clare semi-final. Brian Whelahan's penalty save my personal highlight.

That, and the Clare supporter who complained to the Offaly supporter afterwards "it's alright for ye and yere replay, we have to come back again for the final".
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: On this day 25 years ago

Post by ah lethimoutwithit »

3 further "on this day" to look forward to from a GAA & hurling perspective.
But the on this day in the midst of that will be the Omagh bombing. A day of pure horror that won't be forgotten as the true scale emerged through that awful Saturday..

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