U20 hurlers 23

[Superhans75]

To be honest we over achieved this year it was a great
Experience for all! there is talent How much comes throw
Time will tell.
It was great to see all the young people enjoy themselves
It can only be good for the county..
Let's give tipp a bloody nose

[Bord na Mona man]

Weighing it all up, Cork were going to win this game anyway with their older and highly talented team.
I've read lots of comments from Cork lads patting themselves on the back for by winning by showing an 'edge'. This may not be as clever as they think.

Imagine if a less generous ref showed red to Kingston. When Richie Hogan cost Kilkenny any chance in the 2019 All Ireland by doing something similar, the Kilkenny people weren't thanking him for showing an edge, laying down a marker, or showing Tipp who the men were.

Cork had a physical advantage which the correctly used, but there was some cheap stuff mixed in too that is the opposite of good hard hurling.

Not to dwell on it. Offaly need to move on and not start thinking like victims.
Several players have a year or two to improve their hurling and also their physical conditioning to be more ready for the next tilt.
We have three U18 players who've scored a goal in an U20 All Ireland final. Lots of positives to draw on.

[G91]

It's just sickening the reaction of the cork team and supporters condoning nearly breaking a players kneck and ganging up on others

You can say cork were the better team and probably would've won anyway but non of that matters

If gaa or someone doesn't address it , the whole thing is a joke when is enough enough when has it gotten too far

Cork went out with that plan for one reason only and that's because they didn't believe they could have won that game on skill and hurling alone.

That tackle on cormac was dangerous and could of had serious implications. That lad has a life outside of hurling college to attend to and if he got badly hurt who's supposed to take responsibility

That's exactly the view that should be looked at ,

I honestly believe offaly had Cork rattled they weren't able for screeney and if offaly had an numerical advantage and were ahead belief in the players would have been immense Cork would have been under serious pressure, and the offaly supporters would have taken it to another level

It might have been simular to the Leinster final

That's 2 years in a row 2 finals 2 poor referees , all year from joe mcdonagh, league 2a and the under 20 knockout games refereeing wasn't at it's best, don't forget brecon Kavanagh got knocked out and the referee almost played On , Mark troy got buried in the dublin game aswel

When will it all be addressed by HQ

[Plain of the Herbs]

Cork were the more physical side. But taking a lad out in the air, or swiping across a lad’s adams apple with the blade of the hurl isn’t physical. That’s dirt.

However, I don’t buy into this notion that the team playing with 14 men always loses. Because that doesn’t happen. Item 1: in last year’s Minor final, Tipperary only awoke when they had a man sent off, came from 5 or 6 points down (I forget) to win by one. Item 2: joe McDonagh final, Offaly outscored Carlow by 6 or maybe 7 points when down to 14, while Carlow won by 7 or maybe 8 while it was 15 v 15. Item 3: the Leinster U20 final when Offaly really only found their rhythm (and Wexford lost theirs) following the sending off. So the opposition having a man sent off isn’t a silver bullet.

Anyway, if you’re going to have a man sent off, do it in the first half – that way you have a chance to reorganise. Remember the 1986 All-Ireland Minor final? Offaly took the interval to completely reset their defence with Gary Cahill sweeping in the second half and even took a short puckout from Joe Errity – something unheard of at that time.

It’s all part of the development process. Offaly have gained invaluable experience this year with matches against Galway, Dublin, Wexford and Cork. We saw two Corks on Sunday, one that afforded the Offaly inside forwards the freedom of Semple Stadium for 20 minutes or so, the other in the second half that pulled their half-back line right back on the 45m line and successfully blocked off the path to goal. And no matter what Offaly did to entice them out they weren’t for budging. Sunday might be the most valuable of all this year’s matches from that development viewpoint

Hurling will go on. They will go back to their clubs now. Many will hurl Senior. The U20 championships are on a round robin basis. Then I expect they will reconvene in September to prepare for the Offaly combined colleges team, which in turn will lead to the Leinster U20 championship. Excellence is a journey, not a destination.

[frankthetank]

The elephant in the room regarding 2024 is the inevitable tug of war between Leo O’Connor and Johnny Kelly.

In my eyes county executive need to step in early and say to Kelly informally that in the best of interests of Offaly hurling we don’t want these guys hurling senior until their underage hurling is complete. And if that means it’s not until 2026 we see Ravenhill, Screeney et al in an Offaly senior team so be it.

The long game is paramount here.

[G91]

Non should be playing senior who are under 20 next championship, fair enough lads who are on the transition from under 20 to senior,

I'd actually like to see cormac egan play senior hurling as good as he is at football

[jimbob17]

Never mind next year, i'd expect a couple of them to appear on bench or possibly feature against Tipperary on Sat week! Not that I think it's right....... The U20's should be left alone unless in their final year of U20. Nothing to be gained by bringing them young lads in before they are ready. Only doing them a dis-service and co board should be doing all in their power to mind them young lads.

[faithfulfanatic]

If 18 or 19 year olds are good enough to start and play for Galway, Kilkenny, Cork, Clare etc, then surely our most talented bunch in decades should be playing Senior too.. in a small county we must make the most of our resources.. I expect there will be some sort of a change to the 7 day rule next year.. manage them properly and carefully but our seniors need their best hurlers hurling, whoever they may be

[Bord na Mona man]

A couple of tactical snippets from Sunday:

https://twitter.com/NoPlanBGAA/status/1 ... 9210827776

[Lone Shark]

I don't know if I'm feeling what other Offaly people are feeling, or if it's just me, but there are serious mixed emotions going on right now with regard to Sunday.

I do feel very angry at Cork's tactics, but not because I think it swung the result. If they were down a man, they still would have been able to play the ball into one-on-one situations in their half forward line, and the quality of those guys was such that they still would have won plenty of their battles and picked off plenty of scores. This wasn't a Cork team that needed lots of passes to get the ball out of defence up to the scoring zone, so if they had one less inside forward, I don't think that would have discommoded them too much.

Likewise, the cynical fouling - the pulls and drags, the general "thou shalt not pass" stuff, is just part of the game. It's a risky tactic - some days it'll be let go, others it won't, and on the days when it won't, you'll find yourself in card trouble very quickly. However Cork figured out what to do with the threat posed by Adam Screeney as the game went on, and we simply didn't offer a lot of other threats. Would it have been different if Cormac hadn't been taken out of the game? Maybe so, but the fact remains, Cork built their whole game around stopping one Offaly forward, and we still didn't look like scoring enough to win.

However - I'm trying not to get too excited by how good Adam is, I really am - but feck me, it's difficult. And the thing is, all across the country, it's the same, he's a joy to watch, and people love the idea that there is still a place in hurling for a player of that physical frame.

Except the problem is that if we continue to allow this meshing of the idea that hurling is a "manly, physical game" with the idea that we need to allow some leeway for dangerous, violent tackles like Kingston's hit on Cormac, then there simply isn't a place in the game for that player. Because Adam's head will always be at shoulder height for a lot of the players marking him, there will always be plausible deniability for the player making the hit, and those hits will come. No corner back wants to be embarrassed by getting cleaned out, much less by a player that looks like he could be the mascot. I know Adam is incredibly tough and he wants to be stuck into the physical stuff, but in general, there has to be some responsibility put on the player making the tackle to protect the safety of the man he's tackling. If you go for broke trying to make the "showtime" hit that will go viral on tiktok, then you are rolling the dice - get it right, or run the risk of a red.

So my issue with Cork's tactics last week isn't that they cost Offaly an U-20 All-Ireland, since I don't believe they did. My issue is that there is no future in the game for a player that can't bring at least a 90kg frame with 8% bodyfat, because we're not going to protect him, and that looks like it might ultimately cost Offaly the most promising hurler we've produced since Brian Whelahan. That upsets me, a lot.


On the issue of drafting lads up to the senior panel to play Tipp, I would say that unless they've been in the panel all year (like Bourke, Hoctor, Mitchell etc.) then no, it's not a good play. Now you could make a case for a few lads that look physically ready for senior, but the most obvious one of them is Cormac, and right now I'd prefer to see him get rested and recovered, lest he pick up another big injury from coming back too soon.

In the longer term, or course there will be lads asked to step up next year, and I've no problem with that, as long as there is a bit of cop on about how it's done. That, for me, comes down to two things. Firstly, it's about whether the player is physically ready, more so than the age on his birth cert. There's not much difference in age between Adam Screeney and Dan Ravenhill, but you could make a case for Dan to be drafted up to senior, certainly. Adam, absolutely not as of yet. Likewise James Mahon as opposed to Brecon Kavanagh.

Secondly, you'd like them to show a bit of cop on about when they bring them up. So in a lot of cases, give them the spring with the U-20s, and then maybe start looking at introducing them as needed in the Joe McDonagh. Sending out a 19 year old that is playing a mountain of games and has a risk of soft tissue injury for a league game against Galway or Limerick in February is asking for trouble, and we're not going to win games against opponents like that anyway. Sending them out for 20 minutes on good ground in a must win game against Kerry, or Laois, or Westmeath? Yeah, I can see why there might be a case for that.

After all, there's a bit of me convinced that for all Screeney's brilliance, if we had sent on Cormac Egan for the last ten minutes of normal time against Carlow, he'd have been able to win his own ball in a way that our existing inside forwards simply couldn't at that time. Horses for courses, essentially.

[timber]

I agree with alot of this. I dont like how Cork went about their game plan on Sunday but nevertheless it is fair to say in sport, teams do what they have to do to win. Look at Dublin who are seen as one of the great teams in football. They pulled every stunt they could to get over Kerry and Mayo in big games and never showed one bit or remorse for it.

My issue is Cork were dirty and a weak referee allowed them dictate the game on their terms in that regard to physicality which was more than on the edge alot of the time.

The other key point and it seems to be forgotten slightly, was that Offaly lost arguably their most valuable player on Sunday in terms of what he brings. Cormac Egan saw out the half for about 10 to 15 minutes and anybody who was watching him could see he was in serious trouble. That coincided with Cork taking a stranglehold on the game. When Egan was sent into the corner to try shake off the knock he was totally ineffective and Offaly were carrying a man. In hindsight, they probably should have taken him off and and had somebody who could physically move to fight for ball. but of course we all get how valuable he is and why they gave him to half time to assess fully. Egan was fouled twice when he was bearing down on goal at speed to hit the net. He was having a major impact and was a major threat. Im sure Cork were delighted to see him off the field.

If cork went down to 14 it was no guarantee Offaly would win. But it certainly would of had them in serious trouble. They would of had to use Downey in a marking role at full back or shifted to centre back instead of the free sweeper role he carried out so well in closing off the space. Secondly, a sending off would of put an end to the physical approach and they would have had to be more cautious. i think it would have had a serious impact the game.

Is it just me, or was there alot of overcarrying missed. And they led to crucial scores for Cork. I keep going back to it, a weak referee had too much of an influence on the game.

[Bord na Mona man]

Is it just me, or was there alot of overcarrying missed. And they led to crucial scores for Cork. I keep going back to it, a weak referee had too much of an influence on the game.

Yes, overcarrying was missed, but with most refs you get 7 or 8 steps so long as you go in a straight line.
Cunningham took 8 steps here in the build up to the goal.
https://youtu.be/I_dShTkG_ys?t=618

Though the obvious response is that Offaly could in theory have done the same, since it wasn't being strictly watched.

[Doon Exile]

Watched back on the first half last night. Jayus the antics of some of the Cork players was nothing short of disgraceful. It’s actually worse than I thought it was on the day. The worse being towards the end of the half after Screeney was deliberately tripped going through and as he was on the ground, one of the Cork players comes in and gives him a subtle knee into the thigh. Adam kicked back and rightly so.

[ah lethimoutwithit]

The debate about who plays what and when with who is for others to debate. I think there is no good to be got from throwing a few u20s (bar lads who were already involved this year) into a game against a Tipp side that are on another planet to us at the moment.

As for next year, important to see what rule changes come into play, and how the Senior panel looks, we should be able to attract back a few that wouldnt/couldnt commit and there will be a few that will come through from U20s.

the one aspect that worries me about the final is that we took off 4 20 yr olds, (and another injured), and not sure of the age profile of the lads who came on bar Joe hoctor. It will be a big step up for next year and I think that hopefully we can see a few guys in their mid 20s putting their hand up again for the seniors looking at some of the talent that will be coming onboard over the next 2 years.

[Plain of the Herbs]

I watched it again last night myself. I can only guess, but I’d say the verbal sledging was on a different level altogether. The lad patting Adam Screeney on the top of the head as he was preparing to take a free in the second half was something else.

During a break in play around about the 20th minute, there was a random roar from the crowd. I can only assume it was for an attack on Screeney – he had about 20,000 minders in the crowd.

And in the incident Doon Exile refers to where Screeney is dragged down and then kicked, Adam understandably gives his assailant a ‘reminder’ with the boot. TG4 commentator Brían Tyers (a Cork man) spots the reminder and gets excited over that. Sadly Pat Fleury on co-commentary doesn’t want to appear biased and agrees with Tyers. It would have been better to have someone like Naoise Waldron who loves their hurling, appreciates Adam Screeney and knows exactly what’s going on down there. Still, I suppose it could be worse – it could have been Dónal (sonc beag) O’Grady.

Look, Offaly were bullied. They probably weren’t prepared for that onslaught. But some good will come of it - we can be assured that team will never be bullied again.

Offaly conceded scores at the start of the second halves in the Galway and Dublin games, just they had the cushion of a half-time lead so the bad starts weren’t fatal on those occasions. I wonder if Cork targeted that period?

I’ll say it again – the last six weeks has been brilliant from a development point of view. They could have lost narrowly to Galway with no harm done, and never have enjoyed the experience of the Dublin, Wexford and Cork games. Instead, they again got to hurl on the last day of the championship and got to prepare in glorious summer weather.

Interesting to see how Leinster Council will structure their u20 championship next year. It was all cosy this year with Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin and Wexford seeded in a round robin group. Now there’s another contender to be considered when shaping the competition.