Tullamore parentage motion

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Hasselhoff
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Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Hasselhoff »

What's your opinion?

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Does anyone have the wording of the motion?
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

frankthetank
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by frankthetank »

Plain of the Herbs wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:47 pm Does anyone have the wording of the motion?
This motion proposes an amendment to Bye Law (6) Other Relevant Connection and that Bye Law 6 would read as follows –

Rule 6.3 T.O 2021 sets out the criteria considered to constitute “Other Relevant Connection” with a particular club.

Tullamore propose that this be defined as follows-
A person seeking to become a member of the Association shall be restricted to joining a club in the catchment area of his residence or a club to which he has “Other Relevant Connection” as defined below

Other relevant connection – a member shall be regarded to having “Other Relevant Connection” with a catchment area if:
It has been demonstrated to the satisfaction of the CCCC that a strong family connection i.e. parents/guardians exists between the player and the club with which the players wishes to become a member.
Application from a Member to become a member of a club outside his catchment area shall be submitted in writing to An Runai Chontae on or before January 28th of each year.
This may affect Bye Laws 7 and 8 if approved.

Lemonade king
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Lemonade king »

Covered on Rte today 1 hour 45 mins in.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/sunday- ... mber-2022/

private joker
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by private joker »

This is a very important motion. Will have huge bearing on clubs and players.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

"A strong family connection" Is very very open to interpretation. Very open ended. Gonna be some fun with that when the legal eagles dissect it at DRA stage when there is a disagreement.

I mean, define a 'strong family connection'. Grandparents, great grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, having a long established business there?

I think it opens a dangerous can of worms. The definition would need to be much more closely defined before I'd think of approving it.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

SearingDrive
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by SearingDrive »

This issue was discussed on RTE’s Sunday Sport last Sunday. There were interviews with officers from Cappincur and Tullamore Clubs. Kevin Corrigan contributed on the motion.
The Tullamore motion has attracted interest outside of the county.

private joker
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by private joker »

Yeah, huge interest in this motion. Can see it been proposed in other counties in the coming years. Players been confined to a particular area also has to be looked at. If your a hurler, and your club is anti hurling or vice versa it's really is an unfair situation that you must play for a particular club. Can see issues arising with one or two players off the minor team wanting to leave their clubs in order to play a higher standard of hurling or football with a different club.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Will be an interesting one.
In most of the cases I've seen, it's a pushy, gloryhunting, nostalgic dad wanting to relocate their child to their own club instead of just letting them play with their friends.

JiminyCricket
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by JiminyCricket »

It’s a lethal precedent to set for Offaly Gaa . Parish rules exist for good reason . Using our neighbors as an example John Heslin lives in Loughnavalley but can play for Lomans this can happen cause Westmeath has no parish rule . If this goes through Cappincur might aswell lock up the gate give tullamore the keys and let them use it as a training pitch .

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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by private joker »

The argument can be made that some clubs don't do enough to keep their players, develop their players and their mentors. Also, a number of clubs actively discourage dual players or players playing hurling or football depending on the preference of the club.

Anonymous1
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Anonymous1 »

The biggest club in the county with the biggest population and player base looking to gain even more players… This motion should be squarely defeated by every club hoping to ever compete with Tullamore again.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Any way to implement a rule where players can only switch down grades?

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Lone Shark
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Lone Shark »

I'm very curious as to how this will go - my gut feeling is that it will struggle to pass, but I haven't spoken to too many people at home that are involved in club committees, as they would have a better feel for how clubs have received it.

I think it's fair to say that if it was applied in the way in which it is intended, and the spirit of the rule is adhered to, then there will be very few cases where this will apply. Firstly, it only applies to a player's FIRST registration - so it's not the case that you could start playing with one club at age seven and then when you turn out to be a talented 17 year old, you then choose to move to the glamour club your father played for. Secondly, I spoke to Tom Moloney of Tullamore club about the motion to inform my column about it, and he accepted that the definition was a little bit loose, and he would have no problem with Offaly CCC wording it a lot more strictly. For example, he spoke about Offaly CCC looking at each case on an ad hoc basis, and I think it's fair to say that's a recipe for chaos, so he agreed that if Offaly CCC was to come out and say that, for example, they would implement it on the basis of parent/legal guardian only, and that the parent/LG would have to have ten years of unbroken and ongoing adult membership of their home club in order for it to be deemed a strong family connection, then Tullamore would be happy with that. According to him, and I certainly believe him, Tullamore do not want a situation where this opens up the possibility of a large number of young players using this rule to sign up for a club outside their own parish.

I will say this too - that this motion comes from Tullamore lends it a lot more credibility than if it came from some other big clubs. Tullamore have a huge population advantage, they know this, we all know this. However Tullamore has turned a blind eye to a lot of young players in the town choosing to go out the road and play with other clubs, and they've never objected to any player choosing to do this. Obviously, it's easy for them to do that, and smaller clubs that might only have a handful of boys born in their catchment area in any given year don't have that luxury. However we all know bigger clubs that are happy to recruit from outside if they think they can, but also fiercely enforce their own parish boundaries when young players leak across the border to a neighbouring club. There is one here in South Roscommon and there is one in Offaly that springs to mind too, but I don't want to bring this conversation down a tangent of discussing other clubs. All I'm saying is that Tullamore have a good track record of acting in the right spirit when it comes to these things, and that's why this motion has a chance.

HOWEVER:

I will make the following points, which obviously are my own opinion and experience.

(1) In any situation where a parent can choose between clubs for their child, the bigger, stronger club will always win out on aggregate. There will be cases of course where the traffic goes from the large senior club to the small junior one, but usually when that happens, it'll be a smaller, less-talented child that wouldn't get any game time with the bigger club. Overall, if there are 10 moves, my estimate is eight of them will be from small to big, and two from big to small.

(2) Tullamore have sold this motion on the basis that it caters for the parents of children who want to live in their home parish, but can't due to the difficulty in getting planning permission to build at home, so they have to move to a nearby big town. Firstly, that's a policy of the state, and rightly or wrongly, it exists, and it's not going anywhere. The days of someone just buying a rural site and getting planning when they have no obvious need to be in that particular location are gone, and they're not coming back. That may mean that some rural clubs will eventually become unviable - and if so, I don't think it's right to prolong their terminal decline by hinting at this rule as a lifeline. A small club just about fielding an adult junior team, and contributing five or six players to an underage amalgamation, means something if they are people from that area, giving that area something to focus on. It's not the same if the children (and eventually adults) involved have no connection with the area other than where their Mammy or Daddy is from. So I don't think this should factor into the decision making process.

(3) It is an undeniable fact that rules brought in for one reason, don't always - some would say they hardly ever do - produce the desired outcome. Take for example the attacking mark. I think we can all agree that it was brought in by people who don't enjoy lateral handpassing across the 45 and midfield, and who long for the days when a long ball is booted in high, leading to the full forward and full back competing for the possession. Needless to say, those kicks are rare - the majority of attacking marks are caught in the chest, usually from a pass made from about 20 metres away, and it slows the game down and reduces the spectacle.

The same applies here. We've got to be watertight about the possible unintended consequences, and there are many, stemming from the unclear definition of the rule. I appreciate that some scope has to be left for the CCC, but I'd be wary that what will happen then is that the CCC will rule by gut feeling on each case as it comes up, which will lead to no obvious and clear definition as to why an application is likely to be accepted or rejected. As POTH pointed out, the first step should be an unambiguous definition of what constitutes a "strong family connection". Personally, I would be in favour of the unbroken membership rule as well.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Tullamore parentage motion

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Clubs are operated by volunteers, so naturally smaller rural clubs will have a smaller volunteer pool. Yet despite limited volunteer resources those clubs remain a key component of their communities. Maybe those clubs need assistance and guidance from outside (in terms of coaching education), rather than having their playing pool taken away from them which in time will lead to the folding up of those clubs.
private joker wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:59 pm The argument can be made that some clubs don't do enough to keep their players, develop their players and their mentors. Also, a number of clubs actively discourage dual players or players playing hurling or football depending on the preference of the club.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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