Byrne v Duignan

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.

Next County Board Chairman?

Tommy Byrne
22
54%
Michael Duignan
19
46%
 
Total votes: 41

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Lone Shark
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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by Lone Shark »

This Year's Model wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:19 pm
NewEra wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:14 pm Unfortunately I feel public opinion and delegate votes are not aligned for December 10th. If a vote of Offaly GAA patrons was held in the morning, I have no doubt whatsoever what way this would go but the hopes are pinned to club delegates and I have no confidence in their willingness for change.
Let's tease this one out. The GAA is the ultimate democracy. If a Club's Co Board Delegate is going to OCP and choosing to vote according to his/her own personal choice, instead of voting as mandated by the Club Executive, then there is nobody else to blame here except the individual members of that club who elected him/her to that role. Accountability starts and stops with each club member. The only public opinion that should matter here is the collective of those individuals who are paid-up active fully-engaged members of the 41 GAA clubs in this county.

Frankly, I think you could be right ... But if you are, whose fault is it? Certainly not Tommy Byrne's.
I agree to a point on this, in that I've often said that delegates aren't necessarily going with what the club says at an average monthly county board meeting. That being said, on a big issue like this, I think they will be - and when you talk about a vote among "Offaly GAA patrons", even drawing the line at all club members is difficult. Yes, club members can have their say at an AGM, but it's not realistic for most clubs to hold their AGM before convention, and to spend a huge chunk of time at that AGM discussing matters for convention. That tends to be a matter for a club executive meeting, and club executives can have slightly (only slightly) different views to ordinary members who pay their sub, probably buy the club lotto, might play a bit of ball or drop their kids off to do the same, but don't go beyond that. They tend to be a little bit more practical about GAA realpolitik - and I wouldn't dismiss their views on that account.

I'll put it this way - should that ordinary paid up member have a say in something like this? Ideally, yes. But should his/her say be equal to that of a club chairman or secretary, who puts in a huge amount of hours and who understands the backroom stuff that goes on as well? Probably not.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

ryot
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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by ryot »

[/quote]
it's not realistic for most clubs to hold their AGM before convention
[/quote]

Is it not a requirement in Official Guide for club to hold AGM before convention ???

I read that the "New Group" have talked to all 41 clubs...………. but it that true...………

Now all "correspondence" with a club is via the club sec, per Official Guide so the approach must be to the club sec ……

I have spoken to one club sec and he has not heard from them...…

Unless the "New Group" have bypassed the Club sec and approached a "friend " that is one club they have not contacted.

This Year's Model
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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by This Year's Model »

Is it Gracefield? :D

Drive it out
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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by Drive it out »

This Year's Model wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:26 pm Is it Gracefield? :D
Or Kilcormac-Killoughey :D . Cant imagine Duignan getting much support there either after the u20 championship in 2018.

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by Lone Shark »

ryot wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:47 pm
it's not realistic for most clubs to hold their AGM before convention
[/quote]

Is it not a requirement in Official Guide for club to hold AGM before convention ???
[/quote]

It is - however it's a rule that's widely ignored, and in many cases it's ignored because in order to have your AGM held before convention, and to give all the required notice etc., you'd have to be planning it from early November - and in a lot of cases, clubs are still involved in underage competitions at that time of year. For example, here in Roscommon where I am now, if you wanted to submit a motion to convention, which theoretically should have passed your AGM, the deadline was November 14th. That's utterly impossible to meet.

Admittedly AGM's in late January aren't ideal, but I've been involved in a couple of clubs where you'd have the best intentions in the world when it came to running your AGM in November, and it's just incredibly difficult to get your ducks in a row that early.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by bracknaghboy »

The main argument the 'high powered group' is putting forward is about taking things in "a new direction" with "a different new vision". Good buzzwords in fairness. Whilst the media asked the questions they didn't dig into the responses much understandably so in order to keep things flowing without constant interruption. So many I've spoken to have been digging into the responses to understand more about the new direction we'll be headed. Some examples:

Minor Hurling
One thing that kept coming up coming up in recent years is how our underage teams are way behind other counties in terms of preparation for the championship. This has been addressed and the minor hurlers are apparently training 3 nights a week now. However, Duignan doesn't agree and says in the Tribune that "starting in January and February is plenty of time for a minor team". Is it really? It wasn't good enough in the past so why would it be now? Thats a worrying statement from a potential chairman. So much for the "progression" we are being promised.

Development Squads
We spent years lamenting the fact that unlike all other counties we didn't have proper development squads. Well we have very good development squad systems in place and there is huge work being done in this area.The fruits of which will be seen in the next 5 years. Again Duignan isn't too keen on development squads, and in the Tribune he says "Just because they are a nationwide solution, are they the best thing for Offaly". Wow, read that back again to yourself. Can you imagine how the media would rip into Tommy Byrne if he made made such a statement? Not very progressive again.

Kevin Martins removal
Tommy Byrne and the committee made the obviously very difficult decision to remove Kevin from his post with 2 games in the hope that Joachim could turn things. Thats called leadership. Making the hard unpleasant decisions. It didn't work out but it had to be tried. Duignan would not have removed him and spoke in the media of "feeling very sorry" for Kevin who was "a great friend". When it comes to the chairmans role you have to be "ruthless" as Byrne described it, feeling sorry for someone in a role or not acting because they are a legend or friend is not leadership.

Hurling in Birr
There are some suspicions out there that this is the main driving factor behind the 'high powered group'. Byrne has been clear that the existing arrangement he agreed to will stay in place. So that means plenty of club action there including 1/4 and 1/2 finals, Keogh/Walsh cup games and a NHL fixture. Duignan is all the over the place here on this. He has continually said that the matter "has to be put to bed" and he is "looking for a solution that suits everyone". He then says that playing the county final there "is going to be part of an overall solution". However he states the capacity of SBP is only 3,500 in the Tribune so that creates a problem obviously. Then on Radio 3 it's 8,800 according to him. Playing county finals and big intercounty games in Birr would be like taking the Offaly footballers out of Faithful Fields and sending them back to Gracefield to train in winter because thats where they were based when winning Leinster in 1997. Mad stuff.

Strategic plans
Byrne has been criticised for calling them "airy fairy". They are only as good your capacity to implement them. A great strategic plan could be written up with a goal to making Meath the All Ireland Hurling champions in the next ten years but it wouldn't be worth the paper it is written on. The man running for Vice Chairman is being championed as a great strategist with huge experience of strategic plans. Well the Edenderry development plan 2010-2015 failed to stop hurling becoming extinct in the town after a proud 100 year history. So these plans whilst they look great and get applause they simply have to be implementable and realistic. It appears from the Tribune that Duignan will be reaching out to the clubs in the new year with the goal of putting a new strategic plan in place. So as of now nobody knows what will be in this. Your guess is as good as mine.

Hurling in general
We have been complaining for years now that our senior teams can't play against sweepers, can't play with sweepers, don't know how to use an extra man, can't do short puck outs, can't play a short possession game etc. etc. etc. I think we all agree that Fennelly will hopefully work on these things and turn us into a modern outfit equipped to have a shot at Leinster in the next 3-4 years. It has to be noted that Duignan isn't big into all this modern stuff and regularly says on air that we wants to see 15 against 15 man on man stuff. It's never going back to that.Romance of ground hurling is just that, romance.

Right the bottom line as I see it is that things have turned the corner and the progress made by this current county board in the last 2-3 years is the most progress we have seen ever at CB level. Now is not the time for change but rather stability is needed. Tommy Byrne is not perfect but right now he is the progressive one that is pushing things forward. Duignan it seems from a lot of what he says about hurling actually seems to be stuck in the past and wants us to go back doing the things that haven't worked for us in decades. Like US elections and Brexit big statements and buzzwords and terms like "new direction", "new vision" "progressive" all sound great in newspaper headlines but when you dig deeper and see whats actually on offer it's not all it seems.

Lets hope the clubs vote for stability next week and allow the great recent progress made at CB level to continue unhindered.

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by ryot »

This Year's Model wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:26 pm Is it Gracefield? :D
NO

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by greenairfield »

Bracknagy boy come out with your hands up who's relative of the cb are you ?

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by juteman »

Bracknaghboy I disagree with your train of thought. You could argue two ways on what you’ve raised & the Kevin Martin point is a big jump/assumption. The airy fairy comment to me is the most damning for the present regime. Strategic plans have to be attainable, a stretch yes but attainable. Of course Meath to win an all Ireland in 10 yrs is unattainable, but Carlow to reach the top division? That was a stretch and done.
Leaving things as they are is just another 5 yrs of the same as the last 5.
Change is needed and Michael Duignan has not done too bad with what he’s got involved in to date. He has professional and business people with him. For me it’s give him and them a chance.
JUTEMAN

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by jimbob17 »

Ah lads. Is this really happening? For the last 15 yrs we have been on here moaning and groaning about co board and what they havent been doing! There have been a myriad of issues. Now a group of people are willing to come in and do something positive and we are knocking them!

Fair enough, it isn't always easy to get things done and people in there have been doing their best but for numerous reasons, good people have been lost along the way by the manner they feel they have been treated by co board. There are a lot of good people that could and would offer a lot if things were right. I am not saying they haavent been doing their best - but their best efforts have clearly been shown to being not good enough!

I do appreciate that this new group don't have all the answers and some may even be interested in little bit of ego trip but I am certain of one thing! The new group will bring good people in around them and bring a positivity and effort level in terms of coaching and games dev and strategy that we have not seen. Since Duignan got involved in Ballinamere Durrow, the club has been turned upside down and inside out to be one of the most progressive underage clubs in county. I will preface this however by saying it certainly was not all Ml Duignan's doing and some other very good and energetic people have been central to their rise where they have more than doubled their playing nos and have more qualified coaches (in terms of foundation level and level one courses completed) than any other club in the county! While it is'nt all down to Duignan, he has been involved at committee level at this time. Brian Gavin has helped address decline out in Clara while sorting out their significant financial issue while Colm Cummins chairs national committees in GAA for Central Council and is big reason for Edenderry revival generally- ask anyone over there!

As bad as some of these people may be, they are surely a better option than what has been overseeing things for last number of years where musical chairs and pure mediocrity has prevailed on and off the pitch!

All entitled to fair go and fair vote and fair play to all (current incumbents included) for their valiant efforts - a thankless role no doubt - however, I'd be in favour of some fresh blood here! However, if Duignan loses the chairmanship, the rest could do huge good and run and get in themselves and start making incremental changes in meantime from within before next chair contest where more may join them! I hope this line of dropping out does not happen if Duignan effort fails. Doing a Sinn Fein on it is helpful to nobody where they are anti everything and pro nothing. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!
jimbob

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by offalys future2 »

bracknaghboy wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:02 pm Minor Hurling
One thing that kept coming up coming up in recent years is how our underage teams are way behind other counties in terms of preparation for the championship. This has been addressed and the minor hurlers are apparently training 3 nights a week now. However, Duignan doesn't agree and says in the Tribune that "starting in January and February is plenty of time for a minor team". Is it really? It wasn't good enough in the past so why would it be now? Thats a worrying statement from a potential chairman. So much for the "progression" we are being promised.
27th April – Wexford (3-11) Offaly (2-11) - Beaten by 3 Points
4th May – Dublin (1-23) Offaly (1-10) - Beaten by 13 Points
11th May – Kilkenny (5-29) Offaly (1-9) - Beaten by 32 Points
8th June – Kildare (1-23) Offaly (1-20) AET - Beaten by 3 Points

Duignan's point was that the minors trained since November last year 3 times a week also and the results are above. I acknowledge a close game with Wexford to start but a beating of 13 points to Dublin, a hammering of 32 points by Kilkenny and then losing to Kildare. Those results show no sign of improvement. Duignan's point was that the minors this year are doing the exact same as last year. He wants to review the process rather than continue to do the same thing as last year. Seems a logical approach to me.

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by NewEra »

jimbob17 wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:40 am
I do appreciate that this new group don't have all the answers and some may even be interested in little bit of ego trip but I am certain of one thing! The new group will bring good people in around them and bring a positivity and effort level in terms of coaching and games dev and strategy that we have not seen. Since Duignan got involved in Ballinamere Durrow, the club has been turned upside down and inside out to be one of the most progressive underage clubs in county. I will preface this however by saying it certainly was not all Ml Duignan's doing and some other very good and energetic people have been central to their rise where they have more than doubled their playing nos and have more qualified coaches (in terms of foundation level and level one courses completed) than any other club in the county! While it is'nt all down to Duignan, he has been involved at committee level at this time. Brian Gavin has helped address decline out in Clara while sorting out their significant financial issue while Colm Cummins chairs national committees in GAA for Central Council and is big reason for Edenderry revival generally- ask anyone over there!

As bad as some of these people may be, they are surely a better option than what has been overseeing things for last number of years where musical chairs and pure mediocrity has prevailed on and off the pitch!
Hear Hear

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by private joker »

offalys future2 wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:37 am
bracknaghboy wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:02 pm Minor Hurling
One thing that kept coming up coming up in recent years is how our underage teams are way behind other counties in terms of preparation for the championship. This has been addressed and the minor hurlers are apparently training 3 nights a week now. However, Duignan doesn't agree and says in the Tribune that "starting in January and February is plenty of time for a minor team". Is it really? It wasn't good enough in the past so why would it be now? Thats a worrying statement from a potential chairman. So much for the "progression" we are being promised.
27th April – Wexford (3-11) Offaly (2-11) - Beaten by 3 Points
4th May – Dublin (1-23) Offaly (1-10) - Beaten by 13 Points
11th May – Kilkenny (5-29) Offaly (1-9) - Beaten by 32 Points
8th June – Kildare (1-23) Offaly (1-20) AET - Beaten by 3 Points

Duignan's point was that the minors trained since November last year 3 times a week also and the results are above. I acknowledge a close game with Wexford to start but a beating of 13 points to Dublin, a hammering of 32 points by Kilkenny and then losing to Kildare. Those results show no sign of improvement. Duignan's point was that the minors this year are doing the exact same as last year. He wants to review the process rather than continue to do the same thing as last year. Seems a logical approach.

The point been missed here is that wexford, Dublin etc are starting at a higher base. They train 3 nights a week also . They have more talent than Offaly and start from a higher level when they arrive in to a development squad. What is Duignans or byrnes solution? Not train till Feb, march? You'll see those scorlines double. As for the match vs kildare, that was two evenly matched teams coming from a similar enough base.

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by offalys future2 »

how are they starting at a higher base if the development squads are been run so well??
your talking out your arse.

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Re: Byrne v Duignan

Post by private joker »

Is this genuine? Because they come to the development squads at a higher level. Offalys development squads right now are really well ran, they have to be because Leinster council are also monitoring development squads. The fact is , a 13 year from Dublin is in better physical shape and of a higher skill level than a 13 year old Offaly player entering the squad system at the same time. If you can't strike a ball of your left in Dublin you don't make the squad. You have to have a basic level of skill. That's the club responsibility.

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