Leinster club championships 2017

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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby substandard » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:49 pm

Hard luck to the team and management. It looks to me that they assumed/ gambled on winning aerial battles on puckouts. Within minutes it was obviously going horribly wrong, so it's difficult to adjust midstream, especially with an element of panic setting in. Also looks as though they underestimated O'Callahan's pace and movement, and were gambling on Healion's physicality to dominate him. Mahon's sending off was the nail in the coffin; I thought maybe shorter on the puckouts and try and bypass the Cuala halfback line might have yielded something, but was never going to happen with 14, they were being pulled all over the shop at 15 a side.
Cuala are a serious operation, and their winning margins throughout the Leinster campaign bear this out. It's a balancing act for K/K now to get new blood bedded in and identifying replacements down the line for key positions, e.g. the Healions, who have been great servants and still have plenty to offer within the county championship, but youth trumped them today.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Keyser Soze » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:21 am

Couple of things (from an outsider) on todays game.

Cuala are a very good side.
The ease with which they dominated KK in the air during the first 15 minutes I couldn't believe. They seem to be able to mix it anyway you want.
The use of the respective half forward lines was telling. Cualas came deep, got on ball, turned and delivered it while on the front foot. KKs just seemed to be MIA. They were neither dropped deep helping out nor pushed up on their men. The amount of ball Moran won uncontested in the first half.
Cuala's 10th point summed the game up. A KK defender won the ball on the terrace side. Handpassed to a teammate who also handpassed it off. I think Healion was the third man. He was blocked down by Cronin who popped it over. Three possessions, two handpasses to static men, the ball going backwards all the time.

And in case anyone wonders I am not being smug in any way. Where does this formline leave Laois club hurling? I dread to think.
Traditionally Offaly, Kilkenny and Wexford champions have always been neck and neck in the club championship. Cuala have dismantled all three in succession at their ease. In that sense it could well be the most impressive Leinster final win ever.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:26 pm

Anyone planning to sound off about the referees impact might like to watch the video of the match first. I did, and I discovered Seán Cleere actually handled the Final well.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby SearingDrive » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:36 pm

Keyser Soze wrote:Couple of things (from an outsider) on todays game.

Cuala are a very good side.
The ease with which they dominated KK in the air during the first 15 minutes I couldn't believe. They seem to be able to mix it anyway you want.
The use of the respective half forward lines was telling. Cualas came deep, got on ball, turned and delivered it while on the front foot. KKs just seemed to be MIA. They were neither dropped deep helping out nor pushed up on their men. The amount of ball Moran won uncontested in the first half.
Cuala's 10th point summed the game up. A KK defender won the ball on the terrace side. Handpassed to a teammate who also handpassed it off. I think Healion was the third man. He was blocked down by Cronin who popped it over. Three possessions, two handpasses to static men, the ball going backwards all the time.

And in case anyone wonders I am not being smug in any way. Where does this formline leave Laois club hurling? I dread to think.
Traditionally Offaly, Kilkenny and Wexford champions have always been neck and neck in the club championship. Cuala have dismantled all three in succession at their ease. In that sense it could well be the most impressive Leinster final win ever.

Keyser
Good to get an outside view on yesterday's game. KK's tactic of hand passing backwards, as highlighted by you did not work.
It was Ger Healion who was did possessed for a Cuala score. The Dublin champs were superior in all aspects yesterday. KK as expected battled away but the result me.ver in doubt.

It shows how much work Offaly hurlers have fallen behind current tactics. We have a lot of catching up to do.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby llkj » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:25 pm

I wasn't at the game yesterday, but looked at the first half back on the TG4 player today. In the opening 10 mins both teams made plenty of mistakes - failed pickups, dropping the ball, handpasses not going to hand, poor wides... so it is not as if Cuala hit the ground running in the same way Galway did in the All-Ireland this year.

The game was lost in the 3 or 4 plays after the goal. It went from a 3 point lead to a 9 point lead in a flash (by the 16th minute). In that time period, the Cuala halfback line completely took over, winning every break easily from the puckouts... really simple stuff - one man up to catch, one man in behind to get the break. The moved away from trouble very quickly and didn't allow themselves to get caught with ball in hand.

Looking at the goal, it was really such a criminal goal to give away. Here is my read on it. Cuala get a free on their own halfback line. Mahon manages to slow the taking of it down by a few seconds, but they hit the ball 14 seconds after the free is awarded - long and diagonal to their full forward line. #14 picks it up 1x1 with #3. When the ball is played K-K are man on man. The big mistake is that they failed to asses the danger in enough time and by the time anyone reacted, it was already too late. K-K #5 watched the ball go over his head and then continued to keep an eye on 'his man' who was outside the 45, in case the ball was played back out to him. That was the fatal mistake. Knowing the threat that #14 posed, he should have been sprinting back to cover the 1x1 as soon as it went over his head. That way, he could have cut off the direct run to goal and forced a shot for a point or a ball back out to the Cuala half-forward. I'm sure #14 couldn't believe the space he had been granted. It is easy to blame #3, but without support from his half-backs, he had no chance. Watch it back and you will see how basic it was.

Regarding the sending off, was it for the helmet tug or the wild swing? either way, either one is probably a red card. Harmless enough in the grander scheme of things. K-K had their gander up at that point and you never know, if they would have been able to get back in to it. Probably not, but we'll never know.

A good year for K-K overall. Disappointing way to end it.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:08 pm

Very many good points made here on yesterday’s match. Just a couple of things to add.

Anyone hear the eejit shouting “O’Callaghan ya f…ing scumbag ya”. It’s on the TV audio at 10m 24s, after the ball beat Con O’Callaghan and ran out over the end line. 70 seconds later, Con O’Callaghan scored his goal. Now, I don’t know who made that remark but that, my friends, is how to react to that kind of eejitry.

Anyone else see the ‘brave’ hero (I won’t call him a man) who made it his business to hit Seán Cleere a dunt as the referee approached the tunnel after the final whistle?

The Final’s highlight came before the start when the Cuala ‘goys’ were welcomed to O’Moore Park by the KAY KAY chorus.

Having watched the first half again, there was really just one refereeing decision that Kilcormac could complain about. That was the one where Ger Healion was obstructed by the Cuala player with his head down who didn’t seem to know where the ball was and ploughed in. It led to Cuala’s sixth point (increasing the margin from 8 to 9, so it didn’t exactly decide the destination of the trophy).

Curious why John Leahy was wearing a red ‘maor fóirne’ bib. Was it a ploy to have a additional maor disguised as a Cuala mentor?
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby shannonbanks14 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:19 pm

Yes Plain KK fans didn't come across to well for sure. Cuala much better, different gravy really. Being realistic KK availed of handy side of draw. Some big miles up prob wont see them back again in a hurry in a Co. Final let alone a Leinster Club Final. Fair play to them nonetheless they didn't give up yest.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby LooseCannon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:30 pm

Plain of the Herbs wrote:Very many good points made here on yesterday’s match. Just a couple of things to add.

Anyone hear the eejit shouting “O’Callaghan ya f…ing scumbag ya”. It’s on the TV audio at 10m 24s, after the ball beat Con O’Callaghan and ran out over the end line. 70 seconds later, Con O’Callaghan scored his goal. Now, I don’t know who made that remark but that, my friends, is how to react to that kind of eejitry.

Anyone else see the ‘brave’ hero (I won’t call him a man) who made it his business to hit Seán Cleere a dunt as the referee approached the tunnel after the final whistle?

The Final’s highlight came before the start when the Cuala ‘goys’ were welcomed to O’Moore Park by the KAY KAY chorus.

Having watched the first half again, there was really just one refereeing decision that Kilcormac could complain about. That was the one where Ger Healion was obstructed by the Cuala player with his head down who didn’t seem to know where the ball was and ploughed in. It led to Cuala’s sixth point (increasing the margin from 8 to 9, so it didn’t exactly decide the destination of the trophy).

Curious why John Leahy was wearing a red ‘maor fóirne’ bib. Was it a ploy to have a additional maor disguised as a Cuala mentor?


Yes, I saw the clown hit Seán Cleere. What a donkey.

Asked myself the same thing about Leahy’s bib.

I saw this tweet, and thought it rather funny:
K/K with 'Kilcormac Killoughey' written across their jerseys against Cuala with 'DAVY' (stockbrokers) written across theirs. Societal differences.
#classdivide
#TheToughest
Credit: @HSMdoesGAA
OR
https://twitter.com/hsmdoesgaa/status/9 ... 8686237696
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby LooseCannon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:34 pm

shannonbanks14 wrote:Yes Plain KK fans didn't come across to well for sure. Cuala much better, different gravy really. Being realistic KK availed of handy side of draw. Some big miles up prob wont see them back again in a hurry in a Co. Final let alone a Leinster Club Final. Fair play to them nonetheless they didn't give up yest.


Between yourselves(I presume that you’re a Rynaghs native), Clareen, Belmont, potentially birr for the next couple of years.
Anyone know what Coolderry will be like?
Joachim is over them next year.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby LooseCannon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:43 pm

Also, nice contribution to the programme POTH. Where would they be without you?
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby frankthetank » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:49 pm

LooseCannon wrote:
shannonbanks14 wrote:Yes Plain KK fans didn't come across to well for sure. Cuala much better, different gravy really. Being realistic KK availed of handy side of draw. Some big miles up prob wont see them back again in a hurry in a Co. Final let alone a Leinster Club Final. Fair play to them nonetheless they didn't give up yest.


Between yourselves(I presume that you’re a Rynaghs native), Clareen, Belmont, potentially birr for the next couple of years.
Anyone know what Coolderry will be like?
Joachim is over them next year.


I would have Coolderry as the favourites for relegation next year.

I also can only see St Rynagh’s or Belmont winning next year’s final.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:01 am

High School Musical. Shur he's world famous around here.
LooseCannon wrote:I saw this tweet, and thought it rather funny:
K/K with 'Kilcormac Killoughey' written across their jerseys against Cuala with 'DAVY' (stockbrokers) written across theirs. Societal differences.
#classdivide
#TheToughest
Credit: @HSMdoesGAA
OR
https://twitter.com/hsmdoesgaa/status/9 ... 8686237696
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:08 am

I wouldn't be so quick to rule Kilcormac out of next year's Offaly championship. Will still be physically the strongest, will still have the forwards, and the defence. It's easy to point fingers at Ger Healion's performace yesterday but neither Belmont or St Rynagh's exploited him in the semi-final or Final, and Oisín Kelly was the form forward on the county at that time. And if injury free, K-K will still be a domestic force to be reckoned with.

I didn't see any of Cuala's games v Dicksboro or St Martin's (though they were on television), but neither the Kilkenny or Wexfrd champions worried the Dalkey side in recent weeks either.
shannonbanks14 wrote:Yes Plain KK fans didn't come across to well for sure. Cuala much better, different gravy really. Being realistic KK availed of handy side of draw. Some big miles up prob wont see them back again in a hurry in a Co. Final let alone a Leinster Club Final. Fair play to them nonetheless they didn't give up yest.
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:10 am

Go raibh maith agat LC. Programme collecting is a passion of mine and I was delighted to offer a few statistics to what was a fine publication.
LooseCannon wrote:Also, nice contribution to the programme POTH. Where would they be without you?
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Re: Leinster club championships 2017

Postby timber » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:06 pm

Hard luck to KK. They had the nightmare start and that gave Cuala huge momentum and confidence. Fair play to KK for not lying down and keeping going especially with a man down and a vitally important player at that.

Now unfortunately I have to say also that a comfortable win for the Dublin side was no surprise to me. A lack of pace and mobility was always going to come back to haunt KK when they met a team that was physically strong and quiet tall all over the field. Even some of KK's smaller men in the back line lack any real pace.

There is no point criticising KK as they gave it all they had. Yes they are not the team they were a few years ago. A lot of miles on the clock and the same level of hunger not there. The big problem however is the standard of hurling in the county. KK won the championship deservedly this year with a team that would not have won a championship 5 or 10 years ago in Offaly. The standard is pretty poor in the county. And KK had a number of meaningless games in the group stages that were of no benefit to them. Competitive games brings players on. You could clearly see how much slower KK were on the ball.

The championship in Offaly is very weak. Ballinamere are seen as an up and coming side but the intermediate champions had a very poor defeat to Westmeath opposition in Leinster too.

It is frustrating because yes Cuala are good side but they should not be that far ahead of Offaly champions as the result would suggest.

Big challenges facing Offaly at club and county level.
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