County Management Stability

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County Management Stability

Postby Looktothefuture » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:02 pm

I normally don't post in such forums however I heard that there is a county board meeting tonight with the view of sacking both managers. To what end I don't know. I'm more interested in the football so won't comment on the hurling however the football has shown the best track record in over ten years and our country board say it wants to go to the next level. County board members need to be looked at to see if they are good enough and quilafied for the job there undertaking. gym equipment, match analysis equipment and GPS denied by county board, which are basics in the modern game you can not blame management when you don't support them. The county board run 2 club Championship matches and a league match in the middle of prep for the leinster championship (which management objected to) against two time leinster finalist who had all club matches suspended until inter county is finished, we draw with 13men and get bet in replay with 14 men and blame the management... Sounds right. Let's put the year into some sort of prospective. Niall Smith, Niall mcnamee, Johnny Malone, Leon Fox, Eoin Rigney, Brian Darby, Anton Sullivan, Paul mcconway Rauri Allen (I'm sure I forgot some players) missed all if not some of the league somehow they managed to stay up. Also let's point out all the Rhode boys had no pre season only coming back in late January.. With the panel Offaly have and the resources that the management had to deal with its a disgrace that the county board are thinking of changing this set up with what's going to be a tough league next year we will be in div 4 by the time a new manager gets to know the players names. When not if we end up in div 4 I hope the county board are accountable and are made step down we can't keep chopping managers because we don't win trophies it's madness. There is a valid reason why teams such as Tyrone succeed there is consistency giving a commitment to a manager to let him develop a solid team. I am not saying changes are not needed but sacking management is an easy and ineffective option. What's the view of the supporters..
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby LooseCannon » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:51 pm

Apparently Flanagan got the sack
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby kingscounty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:00 pm

Flanagan I would have left as manager, he wanted to stay on and by all accounts he was doing better than a few managers that went before him. Any word on ' concede over 30 points a game' Ryan ? is he remaining over the hurlers?
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby feirmeoir » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:07 pm

Flanagan brought stability to the county team, correct me if I,m wrong, he took over from McDonnell who was not at the races, he also took the co board out of a fix re the u21 management this year.

Very short sighted if they sacked him
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby Looktothefuture » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:28 pm

The county board using a scapegoat again. It's scary that these people have the faith of our county in their hands.. I wonder on what grounds did they make this decision. 2 progressive years and an average one and you get sacked.. Jesus imagine if we were Dublin...
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby substandard » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:44 pm

I'm presuming (never a good thing to do as far as Offaly GAA is concerned) that they have a backup plan in place and they know who the next manager is going to be.
Flanagan, as previously stated, brought stability and direction to the team.
Player power - committee power? According to one tweet I read, delegates were unhappy that Flanagan wasn't consulted by the committee (open to correction here). If not, I think it's bad form. If there isn't a replacement lined up, it's disgraceful. In this situation, are the players views considered? Fair enough if the players felt it was time for a change, but very unfair on them if they felt they were progressing, and now they'll be starting over.
I would worry that next November there still won't be an appointment made, and players will be left in limbo...
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby Plain of the Herbs » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:44 am

I'd be surprised if they have a plan. And, no, the players wouldn't be consulted at all. The only thing happens players at this time of year is that their gym memberships get cancelled. There ceases to be a County Senior panel once they are knocked out of the championship.

Here's what I expect to happen. A com-mit-tee to appoint a successor will not be formed until the September crunchie boord meeting. (For some reason I have it in my head that there isn't an August one, but I could be wrong.). They will then report back to the October meeting to report that they have nothing finalised, A manager will eventually be voted on at the November meeting. Because, shur, we're the faithful county, we won All-Irelands 45 years ago, we stopped Kerry doing five in a row, we came from division 4 to win Leinster in 1997, we've allstars in every position, yadda yadda, keep calm and it'll happen all by itself.
substandard wrote:I'm presuming (never a good thing to do as far as Offaly GAA is concerned) that they have a backup plan in place and they know who the next manager is going to be.
Flanagan, as previously stated, brought stability and direction to the team.
Player power - committee power? According to one tweet I read, delegates were unhappy that Flanagan wasn't consulted by the committee (open to correction here). If not, I think it's bad form. If there isn't a replacement lined up, it's disgraceful. In this situation, are the players views considered? Fair enough if the players felt it was time for a change, but very unfair on them if they felt they were progressing, and now they'll be starting over.
I would worry that next November there still won't be an appointment made, and players will be left in limbo...
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby azoffaly » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:18 am

This nonsense started with Paul Kelly back in 2003, and we've been shooting ourselves in the foot since. Longer term contributors will know I've beaten that drum before :)

I'm involved with Tipp development squads in football, and I can see that good work is being done in the Offaly football setup. Lads like John Hughes seem, from the outside, to be well organised, the teams are well turned out, they play a nice brand of football and have some very good players.

The Faithful Fields project, which I would encourage lads to contribute even a small amount to, is a fantastic initiative and a credit to the County Board.

So there are green shoots, but we have to have stability and continuity. If you appoint a manager and he falls apart, or the players revolt, then fair enough you may have to replace him, but if you are confident in a manager, then appoint him for a longer term. None of this annual review bullshit that tore Kelly asunder for having the temerity of a long term plan and vision. Appoint a representative from the development squads/U17 and U20s as a liaison to ensure consistency of message through the ranks and formulate a 3-5 year plan, with achievable interim targets, with the full intention that this manager will see it out. And if he doesn't, the line of succession should be obvious from within that set up, again to ensure consistency of message and approach.

Review the progress against the plan at regular intervals, and if things are not being met, analyse why and rectify if possible. Do not just dump the manager.

We are in a low place, and we need clear strategy now, not a tactical approach. A long term sustainable strategy that management, county board, players and future players in development squads all understand and are working towards. That's the only way we, as a small county, will maximise our potential and get back into a position where the inherent Offaly traits become any advantage at all. There's no point having great heart and spirit if your preparation and leadership at county level is haphazard, and if decisions regarding managers and the like are taken after a poor season without any view of the bigger picture.

Can anyone name the managers we've had since 2003? I'd imagine there must be nearly 10.
Shane Gavin. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby frankthetank » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:52 am

After a year or even two, progress and development of a team are key indicators of how a manager is getting on.

However after 3 years surely results have to be assessed.

Under Pat Flanagan, Offaly's championship record is P10, W3, L6, D1 (One of those wins was over London)

Offaly's entire competitive record excluding O'Byrne Cup since Flanagan's appointment is P32 W16, L14 D2. This record on the face of it isn't too bad with a 50% win rate which at this stage we should be reasonably happy with considering where we are in the wider scheme of things.

I just feel that the performance in the first game against Westmeath in the championship sealed Flanagan's fate.
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby azoffaly » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:02 am

frankthetank wrote:After a year or even two, progress and development of a team are key indicators of how a manager is getting on.

However after 3 years surely results have to be assessed.

Under Pat Flanagan, Offaly's championship record is P10, W3, L6, D1 (One of those wins was over London)

Offaly's entire competitive record excluding O'Byrne Cup since Flanagan's appointment is P32 W16, L14 D2. This record on the face of it isn't too bad with a 50% win rate which at this stage we should be reasonably happy with considering where we are in the wider scheme of things.

I just feel that the performance in the first game against Westmeath in the championship sealed Flanagan's fate.


I think you are right, and that's the bit I have a problem with. If we had a strategic plan, and Flanagan was more or less on track, he wouldn't be sacked for a poor performance v Westmeath. Without a plan, and with average or slightly above average results, an individual performance gains far too much weight, and this is what happens.
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby Bord na Mona man » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:05 am

Plain of the Herbs wrote:I'd be surprised if they have a plan. And, no, the players wouldn't be consulted at all. The only thing happens players at this time of year is that their gym memberships get cancelled. There ceases to be a County Senior panel once they are knocked out of the championship.

Here's what I expect to happen. A com-mit-tee to appoint a successor will not be formed until the September crunchie boord meeting. (For some reason I have it in my head that there isn't an August one, but I could be wrong.). They will then report back to the October meeting to report that they have nothing finalised, A manager will eventually be voted on at the November meeting. Because, shur, we're the faithful county, we won All-Irelands 45 years ago, we stopped Kerry doing five in a row, we came from division 4 to win Leinster in 1997, we've allstars in every position, yadda yadda, keep calm and it'll happen all by itself.

Like the US going into the Middle East, there's great efficiency in toppling whoever's in charge but not a great follow through plan.
Going by historical trends the new manager won't be in charge until after the club championship is done with. This is especially beneficial if it's an outside manager. But the later they come in, the more we save on expenses.

If it's a lesser known option, it'll be sold on the basis that he has a very highly regarded coach coming in alongside him. Highly regarded coach will fall off the radar some time after.

Come January the fresh man in, working with last year's panel, will make some token changes just to show there's new regime. Playing backs in the forwards and vice versa. A couple of early defeats and panic sets in. However it's too late to stop the slide into Div 4. Remember how Pat Roe and Gerry Cooney got Offaly relegated to Division 4 immediately in the door.

There'll either be a early heave, or they'll be given a year to get Offaly back out of Division 4. So long as they keep mentioning 'rebulding' and 'young team', they'll probably get some grace.
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby offalyman » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:10 am

I thought it was time for him to go......now the real job starts who are we going to replace him with?? ... inside the county Pascal is the only one I can think of.....outside ... maybe someone like John Evans, or I'd ask Gerry Fahy would he come back for a 2nd spell got a raw deal the first time and has done very well with Galway u-21's this year
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby greenairfield » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:27 am

This is a team that can improve....
If the county board don't go out and get a big name or someone who doesn't have the quality to be an intercoutny manager the whole blame should fall on there knees.

But still I have little faith in them picking the right manager unfortunately.
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby Looktothefuture » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:45 pm

before this Shite gets out of hand and we end up in div 4 bouncing between div for next 10year again would an educated approach be considered.. Pascal's name is being thrown around 0 senior intercounty experience. Is it an option that pat would remain on and Pascal be a selector most good managers have to do a stint as selector to get into it.. Throwing the baby out with the bath water every 3 years hasn't worked and won't work. Serious questions have to be asked of the people making these decisions
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Re: County Management Stability

Postby LooseCannon » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:03 pm

Looktothefuture wrote:before this Shite gets out of hand and we end up in div 4 bouncing between div for next 10year again would an educated approach be considered.. Pascal's name is being thrown around 0 senior intercounty experience. Is it an option that pat would remain on and Pascal be a selector most good managers have to do a stint as selector to get into it.. Throwing the baby out with the bath water every 3 years hasn't worked and won't work. Serious questions have to be asked of the people making these decisions


Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be the case, Pat is gone.
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