Offaly vs. Waterford 2017 Hurling Qualifier

[private joker]

It seems from the outside looking in, that the senior footballers have bought in to the notion of S/C work and the hurlers have not. The hurlers still think that skill alone will save the day. And even at that offaly are not really that skilful. You need to be able to run, take hits, give hits and still hurl.

[Toxicity234]

right, Our year is over and i made a attempt to make sure not to talk down the management over the last few months and to remain positive.
After the Galway Game i didn't post as what i saw was so poor.

Kingscounty made a good point about the Offaly players not having a winning mentality but why would they.
were not help ourselves,
years after year i watch manager pick team that make no sense. Were picking 6 or 7 lads that are small for there age group. Yesterday under 15 was a perfect example. Laois were massive we were small. skills are not the problem. but when out lads get hit by a lad of the same age carrying an extra stone in weight, they have no chance and if you have no chance your not developing.
S/C is all well and good. but S/C will not make a small player bigger. Only time and letting that lad develop, natural, and then they will avoid injury or burn out of these players.
We are taking the fight out of these players cause were sending them out to be bully by bigger team. That what is Killing the mentality. Getting bully take a lot out of you in school and on the field it the same.
that long term damage to players mentality. that what were seen at senior, mental damage players.
S/C is part of the solution but its only part. Smarter team selection will help small skilful players develop at there own rate. You can help player develop but you can't force it.

Ryan appointment was alway going to be rubbish. i went to war when Ryan was appointed and poster on this site correctly took me on and took me down a few pegs.
But i now hope that these poster take a look at the pack of lies Offaly hurling people were sold about Ryan appointment.
These are taking from the press release on Midland radio 3.

New Offaly hurling manager Kevin Ryan is not panicking over the appointment of selectors to complete his backroom team.

The Waterford-native was appointed this month with former Deise star Paul Flynn as a coach while discussions have been taking place with prospective selectors for the 2017 campaign.

Paul Flynn was a total LIE... He wasn't involved with Offaly this year. Padraig Boland and Tommy Byrne and the county board Lie to you all.

Former Ulster rugby star Gary Longwell is set to have a support role with a focus on the mental side of the game and the manager believes the Irish Sports Institute employee brings ‘fantastic knowledge’.

This was a LIE sold to you by Padraig Poland and Tommy Byrne and the county board. he wasn't involved at all this year.

Its not the 1st time this has been done When Eamonn Kelly was appointed. Liam Sheedy was going to there to Help him.
That was a LIE sold to Offaly People by Padraig Poland and Tommy Byrne and county board.

I want to know WHY IS OFFALY HURLING PEOPLE BEEN SOLD LIE AFTER LIE??
Journalist asked the County board these Questions? why are they tell us a pack of Lies??

Ryan stated in his 1st interview that he wasn't a fan of the sweeper system and that anyone that was saying that was wrong.
He fucking use two sweepers, Madness.

Its LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE. AFTER LIE.

Please now is the time to act, PICK UP YOUR PHONE RING YOUR CLUB COUNTY BOARD DELEGITE AND ASK HIM TO RAISE THESE LIES AT THE NEXT COUNTY BOARD MEETING, AND THE ONE AFTER THAT, AND THE ONE AFTER THAT< ENTIL OFFALY HURLING GET AN ANSWER> PLEASE FOR EVERY PLAYER THAT PUT IN THE EFFORT AND FOR EVERY SUPPOTTER THAT GOES.

[Towerus]

I'd love to know what Kevin Ryan thinks we'd have conceded if we hadn't gone the defensive route!!

When I read the comments during the week about avoiding a slaughtering, I sincerely hoped Ryan was playing mind games, but it seems he was just being honest. What hope can a team possibly have taking the field if their own manager has so blatantly dismissed them. This "damage limitation" mentality is bs. Talk about setting your team up for defeat! Every one one of those lads that took to the field on Saturday evening is well able to hurl, and there is some exceptional talent in that squad. We do them a great disservice to set up as we did. We have forwards who are well capable of troubling any back line and what do we do to them? Make sure they can be marked by two men at a time? Forget about precision delivery to them and hope they can turn on turbo boost to win some ball? To have a game plan that effectively piles on pressure on the forwards, while achieving little, if anything, extra in the backs is just ludicrous. That's no criticism of the lads who were there, who did their best with a crazy game plan. I'm no fan of the sweeper system, but maybe there is an argument for using one SOME of the time, but I doubt there's a hurling aficionado on the planet that can convince me of the merit of how we lined out on Saturday. Shane Dooley substituted at half time? Madness!

Not too long ago we wouldn't have seen ourselves as far behind Wexford, or even Cork and look where they are now. Wexford didn't fare a whole lot better against Galway today than we did in terms of what they conceded, but they took that field hell bent on causing an upset and believing they could. We beat Westmeath, but I'd wager we'd have gone down against Tipperary more spectacularly than they did. There's a gap between the top teams and the rest, we know that, but we need to work on building a bridge, not staring into a chasm and accepting we'll never get to the other side of it.

Also, we all know that underage structures were neglected, but some folk seem to think that the current generation is a lost cause and we need to sit back and wait for the underage work to pay dividends. In a county our size we can forget about bringing through a whole batch of young players that are going to start to dominate at underage and follow all the way up to adult level. If we can keep a handful of lads coming through, it's as much as we can expect. Secondly, it belittles the current batch of players and their capabilities and what can be achieved by recognising and properly channeling what we already have. It's all very fine to say we can't afford any of the big name managers, but maybe it's an investment we can't afford NOT to make any more.

Fair dues and thanks to those players who have stuck with it, when it would be a far easier option to walk away!

Rant over.

[suckindiesel]

"lads the truth is that counties like ourselves in laois and yourselves in offaly are not attractive to the top coaches, we are however seen as cashcows to the transient journey men coaches.
to put you in a crystal clear picture, an inter county manager/coach, was managing a team in the round robin series in 2016(nor offaly, so one of the other 3)....for his services, he received a brand new car to drive and a sum in excess of 45,000. and the county involved would have expectations much lower than LX or OY.

so, the story is that all of these managers know the going rate, and the red herring of complaining about cost is best forgotten. in places some club managers are receiving just as much without half the pressure on their job.

as managerial appointments go, I am happy enough with Kelly getting the Laois job..the 2 alternatives in for the job were Kirby and Tj Ryan, neither of which I would have fancied.

Kevin Ryan to my mind is a bad fit for Offaly. Yes he has intercounty managerial experience, though I am reliably informed he would never get close to managing his own county. I regard him a bad fit for Offaly, because all of his game plans revolve around 7 and 8 man masse defences, with 5 or 4 forwards..........this system does not work with offaly teams. Your teams have always been much more dangerous going man to man.

I did not think danny owens was the solution for offaly, I would agree that him or Kirwan would get a better tune, albeit for a short time cycle, out of the current squad, than Ryan and Flynn are likely to.

I can understand the logic of laois appointing Kelly, I see no logic in OY appointing Ryan."


I posted the above last November.....even a fool like myself could see the writing on the wall.

If OY deploys the sack bus for Ryan can you pick up Creedon from us and take him away as well.

[sam88885a]

I think B Carrolll is too young yet but i wonder would S Byrne J Leahy B Carroll and R Hanniffy work as a managment team.
it will take a managment team to stop the rot in my opinion.
We need E Murphy C Kiely G Kelly R Hughes C Mahon C egan on borad .

[Plain of the Herbs]

For various reasons, my posts here lately have been intermittent at best. (Some are probably quite relieved at that.) I do want to acknowledge private joker (who I do not know) who has made a number of good, solid and intelligent points on the state of Ofaly hurling in recent weeks, and I quote a few of this below for emphasis.

My own opinion is that there is no hope, that the county will continue to decline, and that there really is no appetite at ANY level to do improve things. Some will continue to live in the past, we have had a mass meeting and there has been a comprehensive report (eventually) published, but which or whether, there is no evidence of any willingness to put in the work required.

Arguably, the best team didn’t win when Offaly Seniors played Westmeath in Mullinga, but that's their lookout, and that happens. But both Galway and Waterford were playing a completely different game to that which Offaly were playing.

To emphasise his points, I quote a selection of private joker’s points below:-

Offaly are in decline for last 13 years. A manager at the top, with the senior team is not going to halt the decline. The production of talented hurler is the only way the decline will stop.Change manager? What difference would that make.

Brian Carroll made a couple of points. 21s and seniors should train together. 21s and fringe seniors into intermediate competition. Potential Development squad mentors to get expenses.
My own opinion , Long term offaly clubs need to wake up. Player development is sorely lacking in the club scene.

It seems from the outside looking in, that the senior footballers have bought in to the notion of S/C work and the hurlers have not. The hurlers still think that skill alone will save the day. And even at that offaly are not really that skilful. You need to be able to run, take hits, give hits and still hurl.

[StephanCa]

I think B Carrolll is to get a 2 week diet planner young yet.

I think he's too you too.

[Bord na Mona man]

It seems from the outside looking in, that the senior footballers have bought in to the notion of S/C work and the hurlers have not. The hurlers still think that skill alone will save the day. And even at that offaly are not really that skilful. You need to be able to run, take hits, give hits and still hurl.

That would be a part of it. I think a lot of traditionalists would dismiss it as being a trapping of the modern game and that a county like Offaly shouldn't be following.
The attitude I've come across is that you don't need S & C if you let the ball do the work.

Unfortunately how a lot of people in Offaly think about the game harks back to the era when the ball pinballed around the field with everyone letting fly at it.

[Bord na Mona man]

The game was big disappointment because I felt that the Offaly played the Galway game with half an eye on the qualifier and were going to have a real go here.

The wind didn't help matters with Offaly struggling playing into it. Once the half time gap was more than 8 points, there was nothing to play for.

4 years ago in the corresponding fixture we had Colin Egan, Derek Molloy and Conor Mahon as viable high ball winners in attack. Ger Healion at centre back could have done the same had he been required to.
Right now we are at a huge disadvantage before a ball is thrown in.

The biggest gulf was the use of possession. From short puckouts Offaly strung 2 or 3 passes together and then the player in possession had no support and had to play it away, invariably to a mismatch. It's as if no Offaly player expected the move to make it that far and no one made themselves a good supporting option.
Waterford's attack building was in a different class. You could spot their players moving into space for the ball they were going to get in 3 passes time.

It took Waterford 20 minutes to cop they could push on and put real pressure on the Offaly short puckouts. Once they did, then Offaly were really battling to work it downfield.

[SearingDrive]

The game was big disappointment because I felt that the Offaly played the Galway game with half an eye on the qualifier and were going to have a real go here.

The wind didn't help matters with Offaly struggling playing into it. Once the half time gap was more than 8 points, there was nothing to play for.

4 years ago in the corresponding fixture we had Colin Egan, Derek Molloy and Conor Mahon as viable high ball winners in attack. Ger Healion at centre back could have done the same had he been required to.
Right now we are at a huge disadvantage before a ball is thrown in.

The biggest gulf was the use of possession. From short puckouts Offaly strung 2 or 3 passes together and then the player in possession had no support and had to play it away, invariably to a mismatch. It's as if no Offaly player expected the move to make it that far and no one made themselves a good supporting option.
Waterford's attack building was in a different class. You could spot their players moving into space for the ball they were going to get in 3 passes time.

Hard to argue with that.

[biffinbanner]

a few years ago i dont think we could sink much further but i was wrong sadly
a few thoughts...
why would brian carroll be too young? hes ambitious and intelligent and steeped in offaly hurling
didnt anthony daly bring clare to an all ireland soon after retiring?
im slow to use davy as an example of anything.
hurling has changed radically in the last 8 years.our mentors dont seem to recognise or understand this
tactics are now huge and the "let the ball do the work" idea is long gone.
i seen limerick saturday night set up(unsuccesfully) with the full forward line at 90 degrees to the normal.
i seen a few places that offaly would be better off in the christy ring.no way and its up to the powers that
be to quench such thoughts.we beat wexford last year in wexford.
theres a good talented group of 17/18 year olds coming up.nurture them and support them and maybe there
could be a leinster minor or more in them?
it maddens me to see all these seminars and forums all they are is talking shops for bullshit merchants
get stephen byrne and danny owens on board with brian..the only way is up.

[timber]

I see the hoganstand has quoted the following;

“We can't get 30 lads in to play a full practice game. If a lad won't commit to come into you on a Sunday morning for a training session, it is hard to get them to commit for a full year. There are some genuine reasons why lads can't commit, but there are some bull**t excuses.”

Offaly manager Kevin Ryan questioned the commitment of some players to the Faithful County cause.

Personally I dont see the point in having an outside man over this squad where they are at and I dont see this Ryan lad bringing anything positive whatsoever. Give the few bob to someone from within the county and let them try get the max out of the squad. Spend the real money on getting top class coaches at underage development level. The Dubs have experts covering all areas to develop underage. lets push for that too.

[Bord na Mona man]

If you give Brian Carroll the manager's job now, the best he could do is keep Offaly a nose ahead of the likes of Leix and Westmeath. The chance of ever stealing win over the 9 counties above Offaly in the rankings gets more remote every year. So you take someone out of the director's role, which, if done rightly could have a big pay off in the longer term. Instead you're throwing him in to plug a leak with no immediate prospect of an upswing.

I can see plenty of pitfalls. A defeat or two to a lesser light and the pitchforks will be out. Imagine him going back to the coalface and being shot down by the dinosaurs at every turn because of this.

[biffinbanner]

i know most on here want a solution.certainly kevin ryan is a genuine guy but he hasnt got a "feel" for offaly i think..were better off get an offaly man and close up ranks and try and get out of it ourselves.bringing kilkenny men down to advise isnt the way to go in my opinion.its not long ago we were as good as them...weve lots of expertise inside the county.use it

[private joker]

I can't stress this enough. Senior mgt is not where the failure is. It's a long term plan from 13 up to under 21. I would leave Brian Carroll in the role he currently is in. I would also suggest that Brian would talk to someone in other counties to see how they role is carried put properly. Dublin have two director's for hurling and football. Moving him would be a massive mistake as regardless of his quality in mgt or coaching he will ultimately fail as the work needed is a 3-5 year program minimum. Get the squads right. Get proper coaches in to work with these squads. Squad coaches should follow a set program that runs for 10 to 11 months of the year. Continuous assessment of skill and S/C work.