Advancement from Group Stages Football

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Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Hyper » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:12 pm

Does anyone know or where one can find details of above for current championships?
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby frankthetank » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:32 pm

Not to hijack the thread but Id also be interested to find out the structure for the Junior A hurling championship if anybody could help me out.
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Lone Shark » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:35 pm

Hyper wrote:Does anyone know or where one can find details of above for current championships?


I won't speak for the Junior Hurling, but the football senior and intermediate championships are straightforward - top two into semis, open draw at that stage. What that means is that in the senior, Rhode are through, to be joined by the winner of Tullamore vs Edenderry (the draw will do for Tullamore in that one). Clara will be in the relegation final regardless of what happens in their game against Rhode.

The other group is more complicated - theoretically all four teams can still go through and three of the four can finish bottom, though Ferbane would need to lose by a spectacular amount against Rynaghs not to qualify, while Ballycumber would need a similarly freakish win over Gracefield to go through. If Rynaghs and Gracefield both win next time out, then Gracefield need to win by at least six points more than Rynaghs do.
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby jimbob17 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:07 am

Tullamore V Edenderry promises to be a humdinger of a game where both sides will see winning it as a great opportunity to reach the final - avoiding Rhode in the process in a semi final. The other side has thrown up an open group. The biggest surprise for me was the manner of the Ferbane defeat of Gracefield. I've been expecting Ferbane to deliver something remotely resembling a threat of a championship run. They havent harvested any of the huge volume of underage success as of yet but maybe they are coming to some maturity now. Edenderry on much less underage success have achieved a lot more than Ferbane. I'd go as far to say that Ferbane have grossly underperformed in recent years, especially in under 21. I expect them to reach the semi and could reach a final if they can top the group and avoid Rhode.

Gracefield fall is very surprising especially given the talent at their disposal. With numerous players with senior and U21 county experience in their ranks, It shouldnt sit well with them that they were destroyed by Ferbane. If that was a Rhode or Edenderry, you might say something but perennial underachievers Ferbane being so dominant over them is a poor reflection on them. They can still make it through group but will need to improve drastically to get back to the form they have shown in recent years, being within an inch of making a final.

All in all, I think this is a much better format for championship with every game having meaning and with Senior B teams having something to really go for also rather than bringing up the rear in a larger senior championship. The senior championship will be stronger also in 2 or 3 years i'd feel as we see likes of weaker senior A teams being replaced by teams that have been promoted from winning senior B - an extremely competitive competition. The hurling end would do well to take note!

The one thing that needs to be sorted for next year is seeding in different groups for the two finalists! Clara Tullamore Rhode and Edenderry in the same group is a bit of a joke to be honest.

Id expect the season to end as folllows
Rhode to edge Edenderry in senior A
Clara to beat whoever they play in relegation - probably Ballycumber
Raheen to edge Durrow and Tubber in Senior B
Intermediate is a minefield in picking a winner while Ballycommon are probably favourites to finally get out of Junior A
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Lone Shark » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:18 am

Just to be clear - the semi-finals will be open draw. That means that there is every possibility that the two group winners could play each other, or that the two Group 1 teams could meet again. I don't know if that's a good thing, but it's the way it is anyway.

And I couldn't disagree more with the idea of seeding - these groups have worked out great for that very reason, that every team started the year with a real chance of making a semi, and no team could be 100% confident of avoiding the bottom spot. As you say, I'd expect Clara to beat Ballycumber in a relegation final, but it'll be an interesting test of their character all the same. Plus let's not forget that Gracefield were very poor in the second half today, and on that form, Ballycumber could beat them. If Rynaghs were to get something out of the Ferbane game (not at all impossible, given recent c'ship results between the clubs) and Ballycumber did beat Gracefield (or if Bally beat Gracefield by 6+) then it would be Clara vs Gracefield in a relegation final.

Also, while Ferbane had a lot of underage success, you have to remember that these lads were graduating into a senior team that was well and truly gutted by players leaving. Lads like Colm Gavin, Gerry Grehan, John Mollen, David Lowry, Ronan Daly, these all had runs with county teams at various levels down the years and were largely at the peak of their careers - and they're all gone, and have been for a few seasons. If I'm not mistaken, Ferbane played one championship game last year where there were two players on the team over 22 years of age. Yes the U21 failures were disappointing, this year as much as any, but that's always a possibility in a straight knockout system.

The Edenderry lads from their 2007 minors graduated into a team that still had a good core group of senior players knocking around to help them along - that makes a huge difference.

By the way, Ballycommon should win junior A, but a Birr team with a handful of Kinnitty lads would be very strong if they can get any kind of time to train and work together. I doubt they will, but even now they'll be hard beat.
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Sharp Eye » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:44 am

jimbob17 wrote:
All in all, I think this is a much better format for championship with every game having meaning and with Senior B teams having something to really go for also rather than bringing up the rear in a larger senior championship. The senior championship will be stronger also in 2 or 3 years i'd feel as we see likes of weaker senior A teams being replaced by teams that have been promoted from winning senior B - an extremely competitive competition.


What teams are in Senior B that you rate higher than the "weaker Senior A teams".
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Fargo Boyle » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:52 am

Hyper wrote:Does anyone know or where one can find details of above for current championships?


http://offaly.gaa.ie/fixtures-results/

The Offaly GAA website has all the results, fixture and tables. I must say an excellent job it is too. Promptly updated every evening with the results of matches. Whoever is over that part of the website deserves a pat on the back
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby jimbob17 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:59 pm

Sharp Eye wrote:
jimbob17 wrote:
All in all, I think this is a much better format for championship with every game having meaning and with Senior B teams having something to really go for also rather than bringing up the rear in a larger senior championship. The senior championship will be stronger also in 2 or 3 years i'd feel as we see likes of weaker senior A teams being replaced by teams that have been promoted from winning senior B - an extremely competitive competition.


What teams are in Senior B that you rate higher than the "weaker Senior A teams".


I'd see Raheen as a better side than both St Rynaghs and Ballycumber while I think both Tubber and Durrow would be a little stronger also. Ballycumber were played off the pitch by Durrow last year in senior B final and only won with few goals in last few mins as Durrow kicked it away huge amount of wides. Rynaghs barely train for football though would be a lot better if they did.
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Sharp Eye » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:36 pm

jimbob17 wrote:
Sharp Eye wrote:
jimbob17 wrote:
All in all, I think this is a much better format for championship with every game having meaning and with Senior B teams having something to really go for also rather than bringing up the rear in a larger senior championship. The senior championship will be stronger also in 2 or 3 years i'd feel as we see likes of weaker senior A teams being replaced by teams that have been promoted from winning senior B - an extremely competitive competition.


What teams are in Senior B that you rate higher than the "weaker Senior A teams".


I'd see Raheen as a better side than both St Rynaghs and Ballycumber while I think both Tubber and Durrow would be a little stronger also. Ballycumber were played off the pitch by Durrow last year in senior B final and only won with few goals in last few mins as Durrow kicked it away huge amount of wides. Rynaghs barely train for football though would be a lot better if they did.


If Raheen, Tubber and Durrow are as strong as you say, the Senior B group winners should be allowed to enter the senior football championship proper (A) at the Quarter Final stage. They each should play the 2nd team in the A groups. The A group winners progressing directly to the co semi-finals.
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Buttons » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:22 pm

IFC Semi Finals
Daingean vs Shannonbridge
Bracknagh vs Erin Rovers

Senior B
Tubber vs Durrow
Cappincur vs Raheen

Senior
Rhode vs Gracefield
Ferbane vs Tullamore
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby kingscounty » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:36 pm

Very poor defence of the county title from Edenderry , Rhode should walk it this year .
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby SearingDrive » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:34 pm

kingscounty wrote:Very poor defence of the county title from Edenderry , Rhode should walk it this year .

Don't write off Tulamore. They have a habit of coming good at the knockout stages.
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby llkj » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:46 pm

SearingDrive wrote:
kingscounty wrote:Very poor defence of the county title from Edenderry , Rhode should walk it this year .

Don't write off Tulamore. They have a habit of coming good at the knockout stages.


I'm glad that the draw worked out as it did, with the group winner playing the second place team from the other group, rather than teams from the same group facing off again, as could well have been the case with the open draw. All year people have been saying that the Rhode group had the best 4 teams in it, so now we get to put that to the test and I'm really keen to see the outcome.

While I do think that Rhode will overcome Gracefield* and are clear favourites to win it outright, I really think that Ferbane will have a big say in the outcome of the championship. Their underage pedigree is such that getting to senior semi-finals and finals should become a fairly normal occurrence over the next 3-5 years. Each of the other teams that have won minor/underage titles regularly in the recent past, have bene able to translate that into senior success (by success I mean, winners, finalists, semi-finalists). While not all of their underage stars are from the Ferbane club at adult level, they are still the biggest proportion on the underage teams and should be able to translate that to adult level.

I do think that the Ferbane/Tullamore game will be extremely tight. There are strong arguments to be made for either team - Tullamore have come through 2 close battles with a narrow win and a draw, which should sharpen their skills, while Ferbane have won by an average of roughly 10 points, scoring freely and conceding less than 10 points a game on average, which should be a huge confidence boost to them. A really tricky one to call, but that's why we'll go along for the look on the day and hopefully be treated to an intense encounter with a huge prize to play for.

* A word on Gracefield - I hugely respect them as a club. Always competitive, always field teams underage, fielding an adult hurling team - is exactly what the GAA is about. I feel that their downfall is going to come from their inability to shore up their defense. While they have scored 16 points a game on average, they also concede 16 a game. That has come against worse attacks that Rhode, so I really can't see them curbing Rhode.
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby SearingDrive » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:05 am

I read recently that Rhode will be contesting their 15th consecutive semi final this year, that is an incredible record. As a neutral I would like to see Ferbane and/or Gracefield reach the final and win. It would be good for football to see new teams come to the fore.
Gracefield have some good footballers, but I think their weak point is scoring, over the years Gracefield teams lost out because they did not get enough scores, even though they were a match for their opponents in other areas.

If they can sort out their scoring boots, they can beat Rhode. If Ferbane beat Tullamore in the other semi final, we will have a novel pairing.
When was the last time neither Rhode, Tullamore, Clara, or Edenderry didn't appear in the final?
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Re: Advancement from Group Stages Football

Postby Tar Man » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:36 pm

When was the last time neither Rhode, Tullamore, Clara, or Edenderry didn't appear in the final?


Probably Ferbane against Gracefield from around about 1990. I remember I was about 15 minutes late into the game and it was already over as Ferbane led by something like 3-7 to 0-0. That was a cracking Ferbane team. I think that final had the largest ever winning margin.

A repeat would be good but I can't see anything other that another Rhode county title.
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