Bally v Edenderry

[Treasurer]

but IF that is the case

Well that's all the minutes said anyway - so unless their letters stated anything differently, it's easy see how the confusion arose.

[Lone Shark]

As for the suspension handed down..everyone ask themselves this question- WOULD the kerry county board allow this to happen to Seamus moynahan? or in Kildare to Glen Ryan, or James Nallen in Mayo..because this is the comparsion.

So just so we're clear - you believe that county stars should have different rules applied to them than club players? I agree that the Kerry county board in particular have a track record of looking after county players - though I would say they're the ones in the wrong, not us.

He has been a role model for football in offaly for the last 15 years, and although the rules were broken, everyone agrees that it was not intentional.

Everybody on a discussion board is of the opinion that that is the most likely scenario. We are hardly the most informed bunch to begin with, and secondly nobody KNOWS if that's the case, or vice versa. We KNOW feck all. We know that he played while suspended, intentions are hearsay, at least until either Finbarr or the club secretary themselves make a statement.

Even with the four points they still wont be in the business end of the championship. i am sure to draw a response from the usual suspects, but those of us who still adhere to integrity, fair play and honesty will concur with my sentiments.

You say you want fair play, but yet you introduce the fact that you don't think Ballycumber are going anywhere into the equation????? Whether they are or not is irrelevant, they are entitled to the points by the rules. As for fair play, I would think that entails every single player being treated the same - not Finbarr being treated differently because of past achievements. You clearly have a different idea of fair play to me.

[far from croghan hill]

by fair play i mean, that a team would not object to a player after they have been beaten fair and squarely.i am not purporting that county players should be treated diferently. as i quoted some time ago we had a case in offaly some time ago (1992 if memory serves me right) where joe dooley split brian whelehan in a club championship match but was not reported beacuse the hurling management asked the referee not to report him, and he wasnt.on the other hand in 1999 offaly gaa upheld eddie dunnes decision that ciaran mcmanus's suspension would be put in place and he duly missed the kildare championship game. what i was trying to say about fair play does not mean bending the rules it just means that ballycumber, ferbane, daingean or clonbullogue for that matter, would not report someone like finbarr cullen when they had been beaten fair and square.as much as the animosity that exists between the hurling clubs in the county, i couldnt see coolderry objecting to brian whelahan if the case was the same.

[turk]

by fair play i mean, that a team would not object to a player after they have been beaten fair and squarely

But being beaten by a team with an ineligible player is not being beaten fair and squarely?

[Lone Shark]

I'm going to have to row in with Turk here - that's anything but fair and square, the man was suspended. Where do you suppose we should draw the line? If not suspensions, how about minor players that are only a a week or two overage? Or maybe Skenach should bring back David Franks for this weekend? Maybe Rynagh's should bring back McDermott? Feck, it, maybe Rynagh's should go the whole hog and bring in Henry Shefflin for the weekend?

I'm not trying to be facetious, but there what you are in effect advocating is chance your arm, and once the ref throws the ball in, you've successfully got away with it.

By the way, the easy way of answering this would to say "Don't be ridiculous" to the Shefflin analogy, and get out that way. My question stands - if not at suspensions, where should we draw the line?

[far from croghan hill]

draw your line at common sense..common deciency etc etc. will anything ballycumber do from here on in not be soured by this incident????

[Lone Shark]

I knew well I wouldn't get a straight answer there. I'll ask again. Where exactly do you draw the line - specific answer, not "common sense" which means completely different things to different people.

(1) A suspended player - i.e. the Finbarr case
(2) A returning emigrant who transferred to a club in NY etc., but never bothered to transfer back
(3) A player only two weeks overage lining out in minor due to injury
(4) Franks playing for Skenach
(5) Shefflin playing for Rynagh's

We all know there is a line - I see it as no illegal or suspended players players whatsoever. You clearly place it differently - so where, exactly?


As for Ballycumber from here on in, it'll be just as tainted as Tyrone's all Ireland last year when McMenamin should have been suspended but he got off on a technicality. It wasn't a case of perfect justice being done, but it's not what Tyrone people will remember about the year.

[Sniper]

I think Far from Croghan Hill is losing the run of himself on this one.
Its not Ballycumbers fault Edenderry played an illegal person.
So i don't see how it would sour their championship run.

Would Far from Croghan Hill be so accommodating if it had been St Brigids instead of the Cumber in this situation.
Somehow, i really doubt it.

[Lea-Bally-man]

I totally agree with Sniper that yer man Far from Croghan hill is loosing the run of himself by trying to shift the blame about all of this mess on to Ballycumber – Like I said before Ballycumber were not the ones who broke the rules.
As for his assessment that Ballycumber will not be involved in the Business end of the championship he seems to have a very short memory as Ballycumber looked after Croghan quite well in the business end of the championship last year.

[ballymanabroad]

There have been a few posts here denigrating the Ballycumber club for what they did. A few people have let their hearts rule their head and have put forward a myopic viewpoint based on their regard for one of Offaly footballs greatest players.

Now take a deep breath and reverse the situation. Does anybody really think that Edenderry would not have objected to Ballycumber using Colm Quinn if he was an illegal player in the first round of the championship in a game that Ballycumber won? The same punsihments would have been metered out to Ballycumber.

Ballycumber have nothing to be ashamed of in this matter. Edenderry broke the rules (most probably unknowingly) and as the rules are there for the good of the game we must respect them.

Personally I find it shocking that Finbarr will be suspended for 6 months but regardless of the player involved I think it is a very unfair rule. The club should be the responsible party in this situation. The simple solution would be to deduct Edenderry's points from this game and let everybody move on.

[Lone Shark]

To be fair if you got through the thread, only one poster is of the opinion that Ballycumber did anything wrong here, so it's fair to say that view is very much of the minority. I'd say if Ballycumber got the points but Finbarr got off the suspension, everyone would pretty much think it was fair enough. The consensus appears to be that it was an error, and one that Finbarr had no part in and as such should pay no part.

On the other hand, the rules may not allow the player to go unpunished, irrespective of how much he knew about matters.

As has also been said, I don't think any person here could put their hand on their heart and say that their own club would have acted any differently if they were in Ballycumber's situation.

[ballymanabroad]

True LS. Far from Croghan Hill seems to have a problem wih Ollie Daly or Ballycumber or both.

There is an obscure rule that as far as I know has never been applied but the Chairman and Secretary of a club can be suspended if an illegal player is used in a game. I can only surmise that this rule was brought in to deal with persistent offenders, something the Edenderry club are not.

Any word on an appeal?

[far from croghan hill]

sure here i might aswell continue to loose the run of myself on this topic for awhile more...

Firstly, i genuinely do have a problem with the chairman, and as AZOffaly pointed out yesterday, but which the shark gracefully glossed over with a whimper, the chairman has involved himself in issues which dont concern him, and i suspect that the case is similiar this time.

Secondly, i have no problem with the ballycumber club (apart with pursuing this case) and i accepted defeat gracefully last year when they beat us, in 'the business end' of the championship. however i do feel that neither of us will feature there this year, provided clubs such as clara get there act together, then we are only playing second fiddle.

thirdly, and finally as unfortunately i dont have more time, perhaps as was pointed out that i am the only dissenting voice on this issue, that has something to do with the geographic location of the people who post in. perhaps true red or sbor could give an 'edenderry' perspective.
my concern is that cullen has been harshly done by..nothing else

[As Such Ger]

I dont know if anyone has raised this point, so maybe it has been dealt with (i couldnt be arsed going through 4 pages of posts) but why do the opposite club have to raise an objection. Surely the GAA have rules where if this happens that a certain course of action should automatically take place - irrespective of what Ballycumber's stance on the matter is.

If I struck a player during a game, the ref wouldnt wait for him to get up to see if he wants me to be booked for it.

[Hyper]

Its up to the club to object. They can also withdraw this appeal before tth disciplinary meeting if they wish - B'cumber could have done this prior to Wednesday night. They did lok for Finbar not to be suspended but in accordance with the rules the couldn't have their cake and eat it.

If the referee puts it in his report that an illegal player was playing this can have the same effect.

Unless rules have changed if an illegal player was played then the chairman and secretary also got suspended.....what happened in this regard, Treasurer?