2015 Walsh cup

[townman]

[quote="Toxicity234"]Yesterday was a mess.

but lets start with the good thing for yesterday.
Demspey was excellent.
Shorrt and Egan did great considering that they were marking 5 players.
Quirke was excellent when he got the ball.
Kiely was excellent and look like me had half an idea how to defend.
If the managment team have an sense we do something crazy like playing 6 defenders for now on.
Its was great to see Eanna Murphy back in an Offaly jersey.

Now the bad.
Jesus lads this will take all day.
The game plan was poor. (just a slight different version of last year).
The half back line. Look like 3 lads playing out of position.
The midfield that started was poor but in fairness they was 3 Offaly half back in midfield with them.
The half forward were bully by the Galway backs and that was with the extra man playing as a second centre forward robbing Currams of any space.
The full forward line. Well for the last 12 months we don't have one.
The 40 yards of space between the full back line and half back line/midfield.
The decision to take off anyone ahead of any of the Half backs was mad. Idea that Camon who had wing and centre forward running straight at him been a fault of Offaly problem was genius.
Camon and Wynne got into the Offaly panel cause of there form with Rynagh's at Wing back and Centre forward. why not give them 10 mins in there positon before dragging them off.
Sean Ryan and Parlon running into tackle and turning over the ball them they had time and space to pick out a pass.
A full 70 mins of hurling only a hand full of cross field ball hit.

Yesterday was real bad but its only a disaster if the management don't learn for it and this management team has a shocking record over the last 12 months for learning from games.

Now Whelehan interview after the match. Blaming the players. talking about players lack of fight.
maybe Whelehan doesn't know but the manager job is to get the team set up and player attitude correct. if it not correct then it down to him. Both were mile off.
Picked out Colin Egan for not playing well at centre back. This could be down to the fact that the manager hasn't drill into him what a good centre back does and doesn't do.(the same thing can be said about Parlon) Saying that Egan improved in the second half that was down to the 18 years old midfield come in and getting back behind the Make shift Centre back and digging him out of holes something that the experience midfield beside doesn't have a clue about doing.

If this is the squad that this management team has settle on when They very little choice for Full and Centre back. Shortt and Eanna Murphy are the only defender that are big and mean enough to play Full and centre back. Centre Back is more important to be able to defend right than be able to pick out a great pass. the rest are fight it out for the wing and corner back position.

Midfield is a mess. Maybe Nolan can go in there but Kiely is still way too young to be leading an inter county team. Maybe King can go into there and give us a dig out.

The half forward line. Colin Egan needs to go into centre forward and Mann,( who with some good coaching could turn into a good wing forward) Murphy, Wynne and the rest fight it out for the wing forwards. I don't include Brian Carroll, Dooley or Tom Carroll(but i'm hoping i'm wrong) as Brian Carroll and Dooley have been tried at wing forward a number of time and they failed. there Corner forwards and let them fight for there best position.

We have loads of good full forwards. Dan Currams and Joe Bergin should be left to fight it out for the full forward position with Tom Carroll, Brian Carroll, Qurike, Gererthy and Dooley fight it out for the corner forwards spots. Quirke is ahead of Dooley at the moment.[/quote


just to pick out some of your points which you are right in some, Dermott Shortt did great i don't know what match you were at he was beaten hands down yesterday Jason Flynn out hurl him but we have to stick what we have Healion should be fullback but at 32 this year i'd fear for him in the summer with the hard ground and we need to find a young fullback and leave him there for a league run.

as for forwards Dooley, Brian Carroll, Bergin will be on the first 6 everyday , Quirke is a class forward and will also be on the team Tommy Carroll and Colin Egan the only forward who's done nothing so far is Currams and will get it hard to start come championship, on another note where is Sean Cleary i though he was in the squad.

[townman]

Also, what is going on with Chris McDonnell......is he injured or what......One of our best hurlers 2 years ago and since Whelehan took over he hasnt got a smell of it.....Is he from the wrong part of the county or what? Probably the most consistent corner back we have if given a chance.......

yes he hurl a great game again kilkenny in tullamore in 2013, but i seen him last year came on in the league games again Limerick, and Antrim in tullamore and i though he put on a stone or 2 form 2013
he was brutal again kilkenny last year in nowlan park but so was everyone else bar James Dempsey and Carroll, i don't go with the wrong part of the county theirs a Ballycommon and Ballininmere players in the panel.

[townman]

((Kenny might not be back as his knee is causing him problem's, Del i heard they were trying to get him back,)
Just to clear this up Brain Whelan dropped del from the panel and no approach has been made to get him back .Word is he is moving to the UK ,so not alone is he going to be a loss to offaly but also to his club .[/quote

agree we miss Del big time but lets call it as it is he went off last year to a concert and didn't train with his county before the tipp game, i sure if you done the same in tipp or kilkenny, and cork the same would happen. just because we are not as strong as we were in the 80's and 90's doesn't mean players can pick and chose when they train, we had the same problem with a few of the footballers last year to. anyway best of luck to Del was a fine hurler and will be hard replace for offaly and his club.


Shannonbanks this is the post i put up in janaury i will put it up for you, don't think there any attitude towards Del, in this post if anything i was saying how much of a lost he is to offaly

[townman]

There is a saying which goes something like.......madness is defined by doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result. The current manager was one of the greatest hurlers I have ever seen....Unfortunately the same cannot be said of his managerial competencies. This year has started in the same way as last year.....in hisI tter viewafter the game he said that thd players had no fight.....well, hello, Mr Manager but do you not think that is a serious failing on yout part....the same reason for defeat was given against Antrim last year....so have we moved on??? Absolutely not. All the signs are that this year will be as bad Iif not worse than last year.....i honestly believe it is time for a change, even at this late stage. ...something can be salvaged if change happens now ......otherwise it will be Division 2 hurling next year.....the amazing thing is that there are no consequences for poor performance......is the manager beyond criticism in the county board.....the writing is on the wall.....time for a change, even at this late stage!!!!

Chris there is only so much a manger can do, when the players cross that white line its there job if the players haven't the belly or the pride in his jersey he wears, i listen to Sid on the radio and it look to me at the game that once Galways got the goal the arse fell out of us, its up to the players then to show there heart and belly for it, thats one thing you could never say whehalan lack in his playing days in an offaly jersey heart and fight.

[Killeighman]

Sean Cleary must be injured as he was up in the press box doing stats yesterday. He went in to the dressing room with a clipboard and appeared out soon after with the same clipboard and went back up to the press box.

[Chris]

Townman. ......the manager has a huge responsibility in terms of motivating the players.....yes theplayers also hhavea rresponsibility, but it is a core functionality of management to motivate. I don't normally refer to themanager by nname as you will note from previous posts......but this guy is talking down Offaly hurling since he became manager, including Ballyhale against KK in Leinster final. If the f@#$ ing manager of the team cannot talk up his team, his players, his county what the f@#$ is he doing there....get him out as this negativity from the manager is in danger of destroying Offaly hurling ffor a generation.......he is sadly out of his depth and if he does not go then he has to be pushed .........

[sam88885a]

townman im not taking anything away from pat joe his achievments with birr and offaly minors are top class but he was very very poor with kk .
d owens didnt do well as offaly minor manager but he is much more experence now and has done well as minor and senior kk manager .give him credit townman he has done much more than sid as a manager .

i think why patjoe was so poor with kk was because he himself didnt believe in them and brian has the same problem deep down he thinks all these current offaly guys are useless .
i agree with chris even before the ballyhale kk game whelahan couldnt bring himself to back kk .
he was a super player but he is doing some job single handed destroying offaly hurling as manager .
i have talked to guys who hated going training with offaly last year because of whelahan .
if whelahan really cared about offaly hurling he would resign now but his ego is to big to do the right thing .
yes he had 8 kk lads in last year but only d currams and c mahon got game time the other 6 warmed the benchs untill c slevin and d kilmartain questioned whelahan and both left soon after .
g healion watched rory hannify play with a fractered knee against tipp and got the message he wasnt wanted .
sometimes managers want guys to fail or walk .
g healion is 32 and fast ground might not suit him but the league is made for him while d shortt e murphy e nolan n wynne p camon are finding their feet at county level. he a great talker and would keep the defence compact and make the midfield sit deeper . i have heard him telling c kiely in his first games in midfield for kk to keep back ,keep our shape .there is no one in the current defence that will do that. a leader
b leonard and k grogan were fuck around by j dooley ,it was a big sneer that he brought in 5 or 6 kk lads and left them sitting on the bench .

its a complete distraction to talk about underage structers in offaly .
yes they are poor and have been poor for a long time but b whelahan is senior manager its his job to create an enviorment where the best current senior club players want to play for offaly and that those guys are prepared to the best of their ability .its his job to develope a game plan that everyone knows and buys into and its his job to develope the proper spirit in the camp where guys from all the different clubs respect each other and work hard for each other .
sadly there is no team spirit in offaly right now . ,no one going to get hurt for his team mate .
townman that certainly not d owens fault it you man b whelahan

[Toxicity234]

just to pick out some of your points which you are right in some, Dermott Shortt did great i don't know what match you were at he was beaten hands down yesterday Jason Flynn out hurl him but we have to stick what we have Healion should be fullback but at 32 this year i'd fear for him in the summer with the hard ground and we need to find a young fullback and leave him there for a league run.

as for forwards Dooley, Brian Carroll, Bergin will be on the first 6 everyday , Quirke is a class forward and will also be on the team Tommy Carroll and Colin Egan the only forward who's done nothing so far is Currams and will get it hard to start come championship, on another note where is Sean Cleary i though he was in the squad.

Shortt did great cause he had no help for the centre back. JJ Dealeny would have been in trouble Sunday with the way our half back line played. He did great in the fact that this was his 2 game for Offaly. 3 years ago we saw the same thing happen to Kenny againist galway and we let in 3 goal in the 1st 10 mins. Shortt was under all sorts of pressure Yeah but the pressure he was under was for problem out the field.
What he did well was not letting galway lads run through him.

Currams has played one game this year. Its fucking hard for him to do anything when the Full forward was standing in the same position. Last year Currams was miss used.
Currams has been as effective as Bergin over the last few years. The Different Bergin is given chance after chance even when he is playing poorly. Currams has to fight to get a run of games.

Dooley, Carroll and Bergin starting. we seen then in our forward line for the last 10 years and we have at a stand still for 10 year or going backward.

[townman]

toxicity234 Dan Currams is in with offaly since 2008 this is his 8th year with offaly he has had loads of chances with offaly and i disagree his not a better hurl than Bergin,Dooley, and Brian Carroll as look at the scoring record of the 4 in county and club hurling over the last few years. we are not standing still they are still the best forwards in offaly hurling. as for Shortt at fullback i don't think the lad is cut out for it, lets not forget that Dan Currams who can't seem to get a puck of it at inter county scored 1-5 was it off Shortt in the county final and now he finds himself fullback on the county team shows you whats in offaly so.

Eanna Murphy after Ger Healion would be my choice as fullback i don't know what happen the lad because he hurl a great game again Dublin at centreback in 2011 in croker and hasn't really hurl much since under Whelahan or Baker.

glad you brough up the point about Galway getting the 3 goals in the first 10 minutes this has been going on for years in offaly and its just not under Sids watch this is going on, lets call an ace a ace we haven't had a fullback since kevin Keinhan and Joe Errity hung up their hurles.

[sam88885a]

townman we agree on something we havent had a top class full back since k kinahan but to me the bigger problem is that we have never replaced h rigney at centre back .j errity b whelahan r hannify p cleary d morkam k brady d kenny c egan b walkins and g healion all have played there and none could compare to rigney at his best .
d kelliher if a bit fitter might be worth a try , he did well there in the second half of the u 21 last against wexford last year ,even if the game was over before he was moved.. he stopped the ball going behind him .

[Bord na Mona man]

j errity b whelahan r hannify p cleary d morkam k brady d kenny c egan b walkins and g healion

Seriously, would it be such a big deal to give players the courtesy of upper casing opening letter and using their full names?

[townman]

true we haven't replace Rigney and their is no one out there in offaly that is as good as he was either
but you could say that with alot of poistions on the team never replace Hanamy, Sid, Johnny Pilkington the 3 Dooleys and Troy and thats why we are where we are at the moment. look Danny Kelliher would be better than Colin Egan at centre back , and you hit the nail on the head the lad is not fit enough for inter county hurling not just him but most offaly players are not fit enough we seen that on sunday Galway were years ahead in speed of their hurling and running.

but this is the point i have been making here the last few years the talent is not in offaly yes Sid is over his head here and should have went after the tipp game in portlaoise last summer, but i do belive that even if we had a new manger in we would still be having this debate today, yes Danny Owens has done great work with k/k but lets remember its club hurling a big jump to inter counnty and do the same with the county team with the talent thats in the county. we have had this debate under Baker, Mike Mac, Joe Dooley, Sid, and i have no fear we will be having it after sid is gone.

[sam88885a]

maybe ur correct townman but what has O baker Mike mac J dooley or sid done before or since they were offaly manager even at club level .sweet feck all

[sam88885a]

townman i always felt that team of the 90s under achieved with the talent the had .
that team had a super defence and most day didnt conceed more than 15 points . M hanamy was up there with the best corner backs of all time SID was also one of the greatest wing backs ever .
K kinahan was the best full back of that era and rigney was the best defensive centre back of that era .K martain was a fine wing back too .
we would really treasure them if we had them back again .
in 97 j mac moved H rigney to corner back and brought in C cassidy to wing back and put K martain to centre back instead of bringing C cassidy into corner back .
we should have won the all ireland in 95 and in 97 if we had not fucked around with the defence we could have got on too but 99 was the sickner , had we got over cork we would have taken kilkenny in that final because needed to win back to back title after 95.
honestly they were lucky to get a second all ireland in 98 even though the were the best hurlers in the country from94 to 99

[Conrad]

Townman I suggest you refrain from commenting on games to which you must not have attended. So let's do forget your notion that Daniel Currams scored 1-5 off Dermot Shortt in the county final. It didn't happen. Shortt was wing back and had a good display by all accounts plus keeping our great green and yellow hope Kiely scoreless.