2014 WALSH Cup

[Toxicity234]

We had a lot of young lads playing against lads that won a lenister two years ago and Offaly were miles the better team.
Galway have being training since the September and are finished winter training 3 week ago. Offaly are just getting fit at the moment. In the last 10 mins Galway fitness won out but for 55 mins Offaly Hurling won and that great news for the county.
I thought the Offaly Team yesterday was set up very well, i thought they use the space well for a lot of the game and took some nice scores.
It the first time in 10 year i have seen Offaly forwards turnover so much ball from a defence. The six forwards chase everything, they had the Galway backs under all sorts of pressure. . It was the most beautiful thing i have seen in a long time.

i have to agree with townman that losing Rigney was huge, i thought the Management made a mistake at the same time change the two midfielders. Brady legs were gone but Connelly was still going well. and it took Kilmartin and Carroll 4 mins or so just to get to the pace of the game. I thought they could have taking Brady off and a few mins later then Connelly. Just to have one midfielder up to pace. Walkins was getting dragged too far out the field and i thought some of the older head in the team should have spotted this and pushed him back to protect the Full back line. If Joe Bregin is going to Play No.11 he going to have to learn to break the ball in front of him and not keep trying to pull on it in the air.
But it a learning curve for everyone and the signed are good.

i have to admit i hope Sid doesn't Cut the squad. They a lot of good hurler in the county and if they want to stay in around the county panel and learn i think they should be let.
Its wouldn't do then any harm and anything that keep improving the hurling in the county is good. The Clare Panel over the last two years has being around 50. And Whelehan has only being with the players for a short time.
Bring anyone who want to come and build for next year with a good big panel.

Offaly Team was:
James Dempsey
Niall Wynne Dan Kelleher James Rigney
Derek Morkan Brian Watkins Dermot Mooney
Gary Conneely Kevin Brady
Sean Cleary Joe Bergin Peter Geraghty
Kevin Connolly Sean Gardner Tom Geraghty

Brian Carroll for Kevin Brady. Damien Kilmartin for Gary Connelly. Barry Harding for Sean Cleary.

The panel was:
Conor Slevin, Michael Cleary, Ger Healion, Damen Kilmartin, Barry Harding, Colm Coughlan, Cathal Parlon, Brian Carroll, Conor Mahon, Mark Egan, Sean Ryan, Dan Currams, Dermott Shortt, David King, Thomas Carroll.

The Galway team:
Colm Callanan
Fergal Moore Ronan Burke Jonny Coen
Gearoid Mannion Darragh Burke Sylvie óg Linnane
Padraig Brehony Aidan Harte
Conor Cooney Jonathan Glynn Cathal Mannion
Richie Cummins Niall Healy Davy Glennon



Forgot to add about the ref Patrick Murphy he was fecking shit yesterday. Johnny Coen almost broke Kevin Connolly leg after he got behind him and he didn't get a free. One of a number shocking calls. lets hope we don't see This Carlow man again.

[townman]

was also suprise to see Gary Conneely took off as i thought he was hurling well. as was Sean Cleary
and he was called ashore to, Galway start to win ball when theses two left the scene.

but i was happy enough in what i have seen in the two matches, to belive we are on the right track
and we will need time and patience with a few lows along the way but we have a nice bunch of young good skilfull hurlers and need time and matches in the next few years to get them to the level we have to be at to compete in leinster again. wish the league was next weekend Whelehan and his backroom team and panel have a bit of a buzz going again in offaly hurling........... bring on the leix......

[Lone Shark]

I have to say that if you'd told me a few weeks ago that Offaly would take on Galway in the Walsh Cup and Offaly would be short more frontliners than Galway, I'd have been genuinely petrified. After all, depth hasn't been a strong point in Offaly hurling ever, not in the 1980s, not in the 1990s and certainly not recently. Yet whether due to the players or the management, or as is likely some combination of the two, guys are stepping up and making a real contribution.

The tackling against Galway was superb and while there were aspects of the game that needed work - for example for me it's all very well to talk about the quality of ball that goes into the forwards but occasionally a forward has to be able to win a bad ball too and that didn't happen too much - however overall it was a unified, committed and well thought out effort from Offaly that probably deserved a draw at the very least. That we did so well on a day when our one established and elite forward had an off day is even more impressive.

In terms of the substitutions, I actually marked out Gary Conneelly for a few very impressive plays in the first half, but I did think he was fading in the second. Niall Burke had taken control of the game around the middle and I don't blame our management for making changes here. Actually after the game Brian was forthright and admitted that he probably should have staggered the changes instead of making them all in one go, and I have to say it was heartwarming to hear a manager actually talk openly and honestly and admit to a mistake rather than trying to excuse everything he did - even though for now anyway, he seems to be doing most things very well. Previous Offaly managers have acted as if they were infallible even though they were anything but, this definitely makes for a pleasant change.

Just one other point from in the press box - the referee's assessor noted that Joe Bergin should have been sent off for his pull across the Galway centre back in the first half, and picked up on several more instances of him pulling overhead with one hand on the hurl. You can rest assured that if this referee's assessor saw it, it'll filter down to more referees and Joe will get a red card very soon if he doesn't cut out that habit. Pull overhead if he must, but as we saw last year, there can't be any downward motion on the hurl and certainly not with just one hand on the stick.


Finally, I'd agree with 90% of what Toxicity said, with the exception of the point of carrying a huge squad of players just for the sake of giving them experience. Every player in the squad should fulfill a purpose, even if it's just that BW envisages that player as a good replacement in a very specific circumstance. Carrying players who are well off the pace would only drag down the pace of everything that's done at training. If he deems that there are 45 players he wants in because he still hasn't ruled them out for use in the 2014 championship then by all means carry that amount, but if he knows that there are a handful of guys that he would not use in any circumstance, then they shouldn't be brought along just for a trip - instead give them instructions on what they need to work on to get back into contention in the future and let them go. In my opinion of course!

[townman]

i also hope the ref assessor also put in his notes that Galways Cathal Mannion should have walked
for his chop across i think it was Peter Geraghty in the second half. as for the ref not worth talking
about was a joke young Connolly was nearly broke up and didnt get nothing from the ref.

linesman the same right in front where Johnny Coen kick the ball over the line and gave it to Galway
if the ref assessor does his job it will be a while before the Carlowman gets a big game he was bad.

[Toxicity234]

It a good point about the large squad, Lone Shark. But there is another way of looking at it. In the league last year i went to every game and every time i look at the subs they was always at least two players that i was wondering how they got in the panel. Looking at this three Offaly Teams i have seen this year, Tipp, Antrim and Galway. The players that have played individual have something to offer to County over the next two years.
And The Management team have only had a very short time with the players. Getting the Player fit would have taking a lot if not all the management time. Its just my idea that this management team will be skill basic( for the first time in years) and It will improve any player with a good attitude. If a player has a bad attitude then show him the door.

Bergin did pull for a ball in the air and the Galway centre back got a cut to his head. But if the Ref assessor call that a send off he a moron. Bergin had both hand on the hurl and the Galway centre back tried to a running jump to catch over Bergin shoulder. If anything it was a free to Offaly for a push on Bergin. But it could explain why the standard of Referring is so bad if the Assessor are that stupid. Bergin in the second half with the one hand pulling on the ball in the air is just bad play from him and if it did hit someone he be in trouble,Big Trouble. this was because the Galway defender were pushing him in the back. (as in the Galway lads were using there physical to push him out from under the ball) But with the Assessor and Ref being so bad we should use it to our advantage. Bergin should keep an eye on the centre back and as the ball in dropping take a small step back and wait for the contact and hit the ground and look for the free. with that Ref on Sunday and for the sound of assessor like that we could win match on the ground.

Townman 100% correct. i didn't know which Galway back it was, but it was a really bad chop. could have broke an ankle. it was by far the worse thing that happen in the game. Patrick Murphy and his team were shocking but if that the standard of the assessor what else could you expect.

[townman]

[quote="Toxicity234"]It a good point about the large squad, Lone Shark. But there is another way of looking at it. In the league last year i went to every game and every time i look at the subs they was always at least two players that i was wondering how they got in the panel. Looking at this three Offaly Teams i have seen this year, Tipp, Antrim and Galway. The players that have played individual have something to offer to County over the next two years.
And The Management team have only had a very short time with the players. Getting the Player fit would have taking a lot if not all the management time. Its just my idea that this management team will be skill basic( for the first time in years) and It will improve any player with a good attitude. If a player has a bad attitude then show him the door.

Bergin did pull for a ball in the air and the Galway centre back got a cut to his head. But if the Ref assessor call that a send off he a moron. Bergin had both hand on the hurl and the Galway centre back tried to a running jump to catch over Bergin shoulder. If anything it was a free to Offaly for a push on Bergin. But it could explain why the standard of Referring is so bad if the Assessor are that stupid. Bergin in the second half with the one hand pulling on the ball in the air is just bad play from him and if it did hit someone he be in trouble,Big Trouble. this was because the Galway defender were pushing him in the back. (as in the Galway lads were using there physical to push him out from under the ball) But with the Assessor and Ref being so bad we should use it to our advantage. Bergin should keep an eye on the centre back and as the ball in dropping take a small step back and wait for the contact and hit the ground and look for the free. with that Ref on Sunday and for the sound of assessor like that we could win match on the ground.

Townman 100% correct. i didn't know which Galway back it was, but it was a really bad chop. could have broke an ankle. it was by far the worse thing that happen in the game. Patrick Murphy and his team were shocking but if that the standard of the assessor what else could you expect.[/quote

your point about the squad, i'd say he was more to do who was over them, Baker couldn't find a way to work around Jame Rigney into the squad which was a disgrace, glad to see the back of him.
our panel looks a lot better under Sid, John Troy, and Coughlan, what young player or hurler wouldn't want to hurl under theses legends in offaly hurling.

[Lone Shark]

In terms of the large squad, absolutely if BW and his selectors feel that they've something to offer, then keep them. However that should be the main criterion for deciding the size of a squad - not how many the county board has to feed, and neither should it be looked at from the point of view of giving lads "experience". If a fella wants to be a county hurler and isn't at the standard yet, then the right thing to do is to give him instructions on what he needs to improve, guidance on how to do that, and then let him spend the year actually hurling with his club as opposed to sitting on the bench with the county.

That said, I agree with you completely that there has been no on-field evidence of any passengers so far, lads have all made a good contribution.

On the Bergin pull, I'm certainly not here to hang the Clareen man - in fairness I'd say for every foul he's committed in his career he's had five fouls committed against him. Above all, he's not a guy who I've ever seen go out to hurt an opponent. Yet having said that, in this instance he absolutely had just one hand on the hurl - everyone around me said the same thing - and he very definitely finished out the swing with a downward motion. By the rules now, pulling downwards onto the player is a red card offence, like it or not, regardless of whether or not you hit the sliothar first. Just the same as Pat Horgan last year in the Munster final, you could talk all you like about injustice and what have you but you'd still have to play the remainder of the game with fourteen men. It's just good sense to change your habit in that instance.

As for the pull on Connolly, it probably was similar but because it wasn't to the head, it wouldn't be seen as harshly. I will say this - it made a mockery of claims that hurling doesn't need the black card.

Overall the ref was seen as far too lenient and yes, he got very negative marks from the assessor. However I wouldn't hang the assessor - largely he seemed fairly on the ball.

[Lone Shark]

Baker couldn't find a way to work around Jame Rigney into the squad which was a disgrace, glad to see the back of him.

Now is not the time to rehash all this, Rigney was flying last Sunday and it was great to see it. But there was a lot more to that story than just a manager who said no.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

With regard to carrying a large squad, a couple of things.
1) What is the norm and what defines large?
2) Should/Could there be a better link up with County mgt and club mgt, what I mean here is that BW takes 10 players (for example) and meets their club managers and discuss exactly what he sees as areas for improvement, and what he would like to see done with the players. Could be specific speed work, weights, position to hurl in matches that can help him improve for club and county.
Then bring these players back in in 6 weeks time for a couple of tests, and maybe challenge games to assess how they are progressing.
This should apply to young players that he sees a real future for, if, they work on aspects he has highlighted.
3) Lets be fair about this, CB have a job to do, and carrying extra players needs to be justified, huge expenditure in each player. So budgets are in place, and this needs to be taken into consideration. Are players maximising car pooling options, are we getting value from physios, catering etc. We are not blessed with money as a county, and this is a real challenge.

But, for the moment, would like to see as many of those young players given as much exposure to best practice at county level, but not disgarded in the next couple of weeks without a clear plan for progression, hence the link to the clubs is very important, and the 3 men involved should be well regarded by the clubs.

[Lone Shark]

(1) The established norm for senior intercounty squads would be between 30 and 35. This obviously varies with respect to long term injuries, whether under-21s are being trained together or separate, and of course the wishes of the management and the financial constraints that are in place from the county board.

(2) Most county managers would tell you that they don't have time for this. If they did, it would be extremely popular with everyone involved. The county board would be delighted that more young players are being developed but in a low cost fashion, the clubs would be thrilled because players would be receiving specialist coaching and yet still available to them, and the players would still feel included and feel that they have a chance of breaking up to a higher level in due course. However most county managers would tell you that it's hard enough to look after a full panel without trying to work on another dozen nearly men as well.

(3) That's a tricky one. What one man would see as looking for value, another might perceive as penny pinching - and things like that, like it or not, can go down badly with players and lead to dis-satisfaction. I'd say catering and physio is fine because management will usually have their own choice here and know how much it will cost - however instances such as four lads in a car all taking mileage separately is rife in intercounty GAA generally (Let me be very clear here, I've no idea whether it does or doesn't go on in any Offaly squad, that's not my evidence base!) and there are players who see it as fair game and a justifiable subsidy for the effort they put in. You might have the moral high ground on your side by insisting on only the driver collecting mileage, and certainly I'd be a believer that it should be done that way too, but there would be a danger of a few lads getting the hump over what they would see as "a measly few pound".

[Sharp Eye]

Most of the major Hurling Counties have a "Development Squad" in addition to their senior panels. The Development Squads provide most of the players for their Intermediate Championship teams. If Offaly are serious about developing underage players, they should enter a team in the Leinster Intermediate Championship.

[Over The Black Spot]

On the Bergin pull, I'm certainly not here to hang the Clareen man - in fairness I'd say for every foul he's committed in his career he's had five fouls committed against him. Above all, he's not a guy who I've ever seen go out to hurt an opponent. Yet having said that, in this instance he absolutely had just one hand on the hurl - everyone around me said the same thing - and he very definitely finished out the swing with a downward motion. By the rules now, pulling downwards onto the player is a red card offence, like it or not, regardless of whether or not you hit the sliothar first. Just the same as Pat Horgan last year in the Munster final, you could talk all you like about injustice and what have you but you'd still have to play the remainder of the game with fourteen men. It's just good sense to change your habit in that instance.

I'm obviously not as in touch wuth the rules as I should be! What rules state a player can't pull with one hand and that any stroke finishing with a downward motion results in a red card?

[Slieve Bloom Man]

Few quick points on last Sunday. As I drove Dublin from Dublin I was wondering was I mad - driving down for what was essentially a pre-season game. It was worth it, even if I left O Connor Park extremely frustrated.

First half Offaly should have been up by more. Offaly did most of the hurling. Yes Galway did hit wides and miss chances. Yes a good few balls into the forwards were aimless. Yes the Joe Bergin pull was wild and I was relieved he wasn't blown for it. However the ref definitely gave Gal frees that he didn't give to Offaly. But overall I was happy with the Offaly performance at half-time. The workrate and attitude from the players was great. The younger players were doing well.

Great start to second half. Again Gal hit wides. However Offaly should have been able to kick on and win the game. Kevin Brady had played very well but was looking tired with 15 mins to go and should have been replaced while we were still 7 pts up. He made a bad mistake for an experienced player in the lead up to the penalty. But even conceding a goal at this stage- Offaly still should been able to win it . The winning move/substitution not made was pointed out to me by another man after. 15 mins to go Offaly should have brought Conor Mahon on centre forward and moved Joe Bergin in full forward. Mahon would have stopped the centre back from dominating at this stage. Also Sean Gardiner's workrate and battling was great but he wasn't really a serious threat at scoring. Joe Bergin full forward would be a threat. Personally I feel Gardiner is a better back than forward but he is young, it is worth a try and he could develop into a forward yet. Thomas Gerathy had a good game but should have came off instead of Seán Clery. Ferghal Moore really came good in last 10 mins.

A win here would have been great for confidence and the development of the team. It would also have meant another competitive game against one of top teams KK. Can't beat winning matches.

There was plenty of bite in this game which was interesting. Overall good performance, hope that we have some good young players coming through but utter frustration at losing another tight game.

[Lone Shark]

On the Bergin pull, I'm certainly not here to hang the Clareen man - in fairness I'd say for every foul he's committed in his career he's had five fouls committed against him. Above all, he's not a guy who I've ever seen go out to hurt an opponent. Yet having said that, in this instance he absolutely had just one hand on the hurl - everyone around me said the same thing - and he very definitely finished out the swing with a downward motion. By the rules now, pulling downwards onto the player is a red card offence, like it or not, regardless of whether or not you hit the sliothar first. Just the same as Pat Horgan last year in the Munster final, you could talk all you like about injustice and what have you but you'd still have to play the remainder of the game with fourteen men. It's just good sense to change your habit in that instance.

I'm obviously not as in touch wuth the rules as I should be! What rules state a player can't pull with one hand and that any stroke finishing with a downward motion results in a red card?

I'm only going on what the assessor told me. Obviously either is fine if there is no player around you, but it's dangerous if you've a man behind you. He marked it down as a red card that should have been given, I asked why, that was the answer I got.

In fairness, the downward motion thing I had heard before - someone cited it with regards to a red card last year, possibly Pat Horgan's. I can't remember where though.

[townman]

Walsh Cup what have we learn.

just a opinion on the last two games and what have we learn going into the league, and on the new players.

James Dempsey, had two good games outstanding saves again Galway and is the number 1 keeper

Niall Wynne, one of the new players done nothing wrong in his two outs, could see league action
with Chris McDonald fighting him for the the number 2.

Danny Kelleher, a big fine in the walsh cup has been one of the best playerso far, will the speed in
the game catch up with him as the year goes on?, will give Kenny a run for his money during the year.

James Rigney, first man on the first 15 and will solve our left corner back problem.

Derek Morkam, two good games from Del, number 5 is his great in the air, and great striker of the ball,

Brian Watkins, great to see him back on the squad hope he stays at it, hurl well in the two games but i think he is better on the wing, but should get the number 6 again Laois and see how he goes in the league.

Dermot Mooney, i have been impressed with him this year, has came on alot from the last two years looks strong on the ball and has a great clearance in him.

Gary Connelly. hurl a better game than the Antrim one, he needs games and should come on with them, unlucky to been took off last sunday, i give him a start again laois and see how it goes.

Kevin Brady. he gives 100 per cent every time he takes the field his a great servent to offaly hurling but i think he does not have the legs for midfield, and was caught out last weekend as some mistakes in the second half as he tired at the end, need a fitter young player for midfield.

Sean Cleary, stand out forward so far with 5 points from two games from play, has to get the whole league in the number 10 , could have a long future if he keeps the hard work going.

Joe Bergin. like Rigney first 15, has took the frees well with Dooley out, will get better as the year goes on with his uncle on the line how, to show him a trick or two.

Peter Geraghty, his first year on the squad has done well, never gives up should get a run in the league, if he gets rid of the ball a bit quicker that seems to be his only downfall over plays it a bit and has been blew up for it in the two game, but will get better as the ground drys up.

Kevin Connolly. has put his hand up for a place on the team, pace to burn great score getter great to see him over his injuries over the last two years, should get a run in the league in the corner forward line with Dooley out.

Sean Gardner. has had two games in fullforward the lad gives everything but his like a fish out of water, didn't score in either game and looks out of place in fullforward, but the Walsh cup is where you try theses things, i like to see him around midfield or halfback line where he is better suited.

Thomas Geraghty. like his twin has done well and brings something new to the offaly forward line and will also get better as the sod drys up lovely touch and well able to win his ball in the air, a run in the league will also bring him on.

Subs,, Damien Kilmartin. has been unlucky not to get a start in either game done well again Antrim score and also got on the ball right away when he came on last sunday, like to see him get the start again laois in midfield.

Barry Harding, a bit like Kilmartin, has done well off the bench, scored also again Antrim but didn't get enough time in either game, could play a part in the league skilfull hurler and good striker of the ball also.

Brian Carroll came on for his first start again Galway looks sharp scored a nice point, a fit and a Brian Carroll on form will be on the first 15, but i'd give the young players ago in the league with Brian coming off the bench in the league games.

Micheal Cleary, got 10 minutes again Galway looked lost but he will have to wait a while before he sees the first 15.

with alot more players to come back in Sid will have alot to think about for the league games, i'd like to think he will keep a lot of the young players that he used in the Walsh cup and give them league games, Rory Hanniffy hasn't gave Answer on if he will rejoin the squad i'd like to think he will give it another year, as there wouldn't be to much work to get him fit and is one of our skillfull players, hope his back. whats the story with D. Horan is he on the panel, he was hurling with D.I.T. in midfield again kilkenny last weekend would also hope he comes back on board to as like Hanniffy very skillful player that we could do with, Midfield is up for graps Horan could fill it if he comes back.