U21 hurling v Kilkenny, Wednesday June 26th, Tellamore

[kingscounty]

Couldnt make or see the game last night but hearing from lads that were at the game young Quirke was outstanding . It seemed like we were well in the game and its a pity we couldnt push on and win. I think its unfair to be harsh on lads that have given it a right good go and we should be looking for more positives than negatives as we need these lads for the future of hurling in Offaly. Of course they need to learn, train and play better but encouragement does wonders for a lads confidence and it would be great if Offaly seniors blooded some of these guys in the league next year and give them a chance to prove themselves over the next 2 or 3 seasons.

[Toxicity234]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5792

Compared to last year we have improved by about 1000% at this level. But for the 3rd year in a row Birr had no Player on the team at this level. Why??
Birr was always the home of Offaly Hurling. Where are all the Hurlers from Birr and more to the point what is the club doing to sort this out?? Birr is one of the most successful club of all time in the country. They should be having a good look at them-self this morning. Offaly hurling need Birr.
I forgot about Ethan Mannion but he might be a bit young but he was St. Rynaghs stand out players in the county final.

[durra1]

BOTN I think your being a little bit harsh in your analysis of how we lost it. We were definately stretched in the last 10 minutes fitness-wise. You were looking at a KK team with a few athletes who could kick on in the last 10 minutes. Your point regarding our midfielders reading the breaking ball is well made though. Its been a real problem at senior level – so evident vs Waterford.

Townman- you must have been off making the taaae for the 1st half. Carroll got on a sight of ball. It was disappointing to see Kealey remain at 11 though.

Performances at this level are arguably more important than senior these days.

As we saw last week there is a real feel good factor about underage hurling in Leix and their minors kicked on well to beat Wexford last weekend in what sounded like a raucous OMP.

Our come-from-behind one point win in OMP was more worthy of more praise than it got on this forum.

Aidan Hanrahan would have as much responsibility for the performance of this team as well as Coughlan and he deserves credit for turning things around after last year’s wipe-out.

[Bord na Mona man]

TG4 stats from last night.
The puck outs one sticks out!

[Plain of the Herbs]

Ball possession sticks out for me, though I suppose there will be a direct correlation between puckouts won and possession gained.

There should still be a correlation between possession and frees conceded - ant there isn't. Offaly conceded 18 frees to Kilkenny's 13. More disciplined tackling? Bear in mind that if Kilkenny had twice the possession, Offaly will have been doing twice the tackling. And that doesn't include the referee penalising fellas who have the hurl pulled out of their hands.

TG4 stats from last night.
The puck outs one sticks out!

[Lone Shark]

I think the management and players deserve huge credit for that performance, particularly in the light of how little was expected from this group coming into the season. It would be highly unusual for an Offaly under-21 team to line out with no starters from the senior side, but that's how it was. Nonetheless on an individual and collective basis, it was extremely encouraging.

I'll go point by point, as I tend to do.

(1) I'd have faith in Ger Coughlan and his selectors in terms of knowing the players. In both this fixture and the game against Laois, we had three or four guys who were visibly emptied by the 50th minute. As a general rule, I don't mind that and in the case of players like Tom Carroll and Seán Cleary who had got through a mountain of work at midfield, you could almost say that if they weren't wrecked at that stage, they weren't doing their job. So when they weren't switched or taken off, what that tells me is that the management knew that everything we had was out on the field - there was nothing on the bench that was up to the mark. That's a pity, but now that it's happened twice, that would have to be the logical conclusion.

(2) Our commitment to the rucks and our ability to catch the ball was heartening. Yes there were some mistakes, but largely speaking this was an Offaly team that went out to hurl the right way, and to take on their opponents in the battle for possession, rather than doing the traditional Offaly thing of conceding possession and then conceding frees in their efforts to flick and hook it back. I've been to the forefront of those criticising coaching in the county but there are guys here who are clearly being brought along the right way.

(3) The silly fouls were very disheartening. In my notes I've the word "needless" written beside three of the Kilkenny pointed frees in the first half. I didn't notice any huge pace in the Kilkenny team and if our guys were patient and stuck to their job, they would have got some overcarrying calls - but all too often they got nervous and chopped down, or else jumped on the back of the player.

(4) Immaculate shooting from Quirke, and I really hope he himself remembers the game for all the right reasons rather than the penalty. Just on that note, I got the impression that with the penalty, he lifted it a bit too far in front, forcing him to stretch and thus lose power. I could be wrong, but that was my impression. It was the type of lift that under normal circumstances, would lead a player to just tap the ball over the bar for the point. In the situation that Offaly were in, he probably felt he couldn't do that.

(5) I thought that Quirke's form was so good in the first half that it blinded our backs a little - we looked for top of the right all the time, when Adrian Hynes was actually a good bit taller than his direct opponent for the first few minutes and could have presented a goal threat from the left corner. It's a pity that we didn't look that way a little more often.

(6) Re the performance of Carroll as discussed on here, I thought he won the first 45 minutes against Buckley but lost the last 15. That's a decent showing, admittedly one with room for improvement, but it just left a bad final impression, which is why he's getting some criticism. I would tend to agree that the criticism is harsh though.

(7) Really great stuff from Camon and Kelliher in the centre of the defence. Excellent work.

[backofthenet]

BOTN I think your being a little bit harsh in your analysis of how we lost it. We were definately stretched in the last 10 minutes fitness-wise. You were looking at a KK team with a few athletes who could kick on in the last 10 minutes. Your point regarding our midfielders reading the breaking ball is well made though. Its been a real problem at senior level – so evident vs Waterford.

Townman- you must have been off making the taaae for the 1st half. Carroll got on a sight of ball. It was disappointing to see Kealey remain at 11 though.

Performances at this level are arguably more important than senior these days.

As we saw last week there is a real feel good factor about underage hurling in Leix and their minors kicked on well to beat Wexford last weekend in what sounded like a raucous OMP.

Our come-from-behind one point win in OMP was more worthy of more praise than it got on this forum.

Aidan Hanrahan would have as much responsibility for the performance of this team as well as Coughlan and he deserves credit for turning things around after last year’s wipe-out.

You're probably right durra it was written shortly after the end of the match and my blood was still boiling!

The point being made about having nothing on the bench I just don't buy. Mainly because it is a self fulfilling prophesy...sure we can't put him on he's no good....well when is ever going to get good? I can only speak about a player from my own club because I don't know enough on the others but Declan Parlon was sitting on the bench and he has made the step up to senior fairly easily with coolderry this year. Even leaving him aside a player who is exhausted is no use to anyone regardless of how good he is. The substition should have been made.

The fact that there were no starters on the senior team is a positive development in my view. For far too long we have been looking to blood new players at 20 & 21 for the senior team without looking objectively at what the best Offaly team is. It is far better in my view to let the players develop at u21 level / college hurling and bring them on to the seniors slowly after this. There are plenty of good hurlers in Offaly who are mid 20s and could improve the Offaly panel / team without constantly taking from the 21s before they are ready

[keenonsport]

Just a few points to make about the match:
1. The management are getting a lot of credit on here for the performance. However, I would be of the view that the management were in fact largely to blame for the defeat. I'm basing this on a couple of things - (i)The initial team selection; I'm of the belief that they didn't pick the best team to start. I would certainly class Sampson as a better player than Kealey or Dolan. The same goes for Paddy Murphy or Morkan. On top of this, we were able to keep with KK for about 50 mins and then some players began to tire. I don't buy LS's theory that the management couldn't bring anyone in as they weren't as good as what was out there. Hurling is no longer a 15 man game-the squad must be used if only to bring in fresh legs at a vital stage of the game. As it was, players did tire but apart from this any of the 6 forwards bar Quirke could have been replaced due to poor performances. KK's changes probably won them the game.
2. In a county of Offaly's size and player-pool we simply can't afford to be without a number of players who (I believe) are good enough to be on the team, or at least the panel. Eoin Ryan would have made a huge difference and would have taken some off the pressure for scores off Quirke. Simon Óg Lyons is another who was missing due to injury and would have certainly been pushing for a place on the team. Conor Doughan is developing into a fine hurler and I'm led to believe he was unavailable due to exams. It's only a few players but they could have made all the difference on the night.
3. In terms of going forward as senior hurlers and coming onto the senior panel/team I have a few thoughts; Clancy is sure to be pressing Dempsey for a place from next year. Mick Cleary is continuing to develop into a solid defender. Kelleher has had 2 great games but he clearly isn't in the correct physical shape for senior inter-county hurling. King is a fine hurler, very skillful and should be pushing for a place on the seniors next year. Same goes for Gardner. I'd worry about Camon. I know he was carrying an injury into the game but he didn't impress in either games. He just doesn't dominate a game from centre back. Carroll and Cleary are probably the best of the lot and I would expect both to be starting for the seniors next year. I was surprised neither lined out against Waterford. Of the forwards, only Quirke has impressed me enough to suggest he is ready to make the step-up. He was outstanding in both games. He's quick, razor sharp, has an eye for a score and has the bottle as his sublime free-taking exploits in both games proved.

Overall, there are a lot of positives to be taken from the match but clearly there are areas for improvement. We out-hurled for KK for large parts of the game but once again just didn't have enough to see it through for whatever reason. Is everyone else not sick of these 'moral victories'?

[townman]

Townman,

I read the first line of your post and I immediately stopped because I wanted to create this unbelievably imaginative reply....

Go Fcuk Yourself you complete fcuking illiterate excuse for a person.

you must be Ger so

[townman]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5792

Compared to last year we have improved by about 1000% at this level. But for the 3rd year in a row Birr had no Player on the team at this level. Why??
Birr was always the home of Offaly Hurling. Where are all the Hurlers from Birr and more to the point what is the club doing to sort this out?? Birr is one of the most successful club of all time in the country. They should be having a good look at them-self this morning. Offaly hurling need Birr.
I forgot about Ethan Mannion but he might be a bit young but he was St. Rynaghs stand out players in the county final.

i belive the Mullaly chap from Gracefield was in the squad and he has done well with Clareen over
the last few years and has make the under 21 side this 4 years, Ger Coughlan told him you can come
and train if you like with the squad but you won't see any game time and we wonder why ger only made 1 sub in each game joke.

Colm Mulrooney has hurl senior with Birr last and this year, but yet Ger leaves him on the bench
his club man Kealey was brutal the two days yet little Ger leaves him there untill we were beat
got away by the skin of our teeth again laois didn't last night, you can call names all you like kinnittyman or Ger, but everyone in the stand and in portlaoise the last day were saying the same.

[townman]

Townman was so confident of an Offaly win beforehand, and all. Full of encouragement for the lads too. Inspirational, really.

didn't read anywhere that you gave offaly a chance either plain.

[Kevin]

Is everyone else not sick of these 'moral victories'?

Very little karma 'going around' these last few years. I'm happy for our opponents to get their fill of moral victories over the coming years.

Up the Faithful!

[Lone Shark]

I don't buy LS's theory that the management couldn't bring anyone in as they weren't as good as what was out there.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the idea that there was no-one to bring in - I genuinely haven't seen enough of most of the lads that were on the bench. However I would tend to defer to the management team who would have done the analysis and who would have seen these guys in games and known what they are/aren't capable of. That's all.

[joe bloggs]

Just to concur with others, there were a number of players well capable of offering something from the bench. It is hardly as if the forwards were on fire for the team. Paddy Murphy would definitely have freshened things up. Aidan Tracey was on the team last year as centre back and could easily have came in midfield to let a tiring tom Carroll to the edge of the square for the last ten minutes. As said elsewhere, Sampson should have got longer too while duck morkan was a good sub too.

[Toxicity234]

God. if you think about it was have a lot of good hurlers coming in the county. No one has name Dylan Murry or Keily from Kilcormac both good players in the making but still minor.
the clubs in the county are production players but maybe there not production the correct type of ball winning player and support players for midfield and half forward line.
this is where a good under-age county management come in. Players spend a lot more time with there clubs than with there county.
The county management should look at this area, come up with a 10 or 15 mins training plan to improve this area of the game and go to the club management. Explain what and why they are try want to improve. If only two or three clubs take it on board we can improve in this area. If all the clubs take it on board we can sort out the problem that all Offaly team have

As a matter of interest, is the Con Mahon on the subs the Con Mahon that was UCD young Hurler of the year. The lad that was in midfield vs Birr in the 1st round of the club championship where Mahon and Kilmartin almost destroy Hanniffy and Hayden (two of the best hurlers in the county).