Offaly v Waterford, SH qualifier, 22nd June 2013

[dubbiff]

Very disappointed but not surprised at how last nights game unfolded. We hurled with energy while Waterford hurled with control. I am sure the game will be forensically analysed here so I wont bother going into it in too much depth but I was sick at one tactical booboo which I felt cost us the game. When Molloy went off Mahon came in and tormented the Brick. He won a sight of ball, scored a point, made some mistakes but most importantly Brick only made one catch off him. Then we start the second half brightly and Carroll comes into the game with 2 points from midfield. What does Baker do only put Carroll at centre forward and bring Mahon to mid and basically took them both out of the game while allowing Walsh to dominate? Unforgivable naivety at this level! Best wishes to Derek Molloy for a speedy recovery. Great atmosphere and a fantastic crowd but can someone expalin to me how the attendance was put at just over 8000? There was way more there than at the KK game. Do they not count the U16's that were free of charge? Great value for myself and the young lad to get in for 10 euro though so at least it doesn't cost the earth to follow our teams...................

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Did anyone see what happened to Molloy? Was following the ball, (as was that muppet Cleere from Kilkenny, but the foul must have happened very near his line of view).

[Bord na Mona man]

A game we could have won yet just weren't cute enough to do so.
Unfortunately my fears came through, Offaly are a great team to hurl up a big disruptive performance as underdogs, but aren't streetwise enough to win a tightly poised like this.
Offaly did well in the 1st half with the underdog mentality. Four points was a nothing lead for Waterford. We should have won from this position with a little bit more craftiness

A few observations:
- Waterford came out of most of the rucks with the ball. Offaly aren't good enough in this area.
- The Waterford forwards made our backs work much harder and slowed down our clearances and forced turnovers. A lot of the poor ball dumped down on Brick and the WD half back line was hurried ball. Meaning the wind advantage wasn't getting used.
- Maurice Shanahan had a super day, but a lot of his scores came from the previous point I made. He hung around the rucks waiting for the breaks rather than skinning his man every time.
- The Waterford players were much better at supporting the man in possession. Especially against the wind. Waterford were able to hold possession better.
- One thing noticeable in the Offaly forward was a lack of pacey players.
- Had Derek Molloy not got injured it might have given us some better go-forward momentum and helped vary the puck outs. Mahon could have replaced someone else as an impact sub later. Anyone catch the incident?
- We had no obvious plan to feed off any puckouts won by Colin Egan. Also many of them were too near the sideline.
- We simply don't win enough league matches in Spring with intelligent hurling to help us in summer. Beating clearly weaker teams and occasional ambushes against the big teams is as good as it gets.
- The future gets more worrying each year. Is there anything reassuring to cling onto?

[kingscounty]

an independent leix view on the game.

travelled over not knowing what to expect, as could not figure out where either county stood in the pecking order.

last sunday, laois/galway was a fascinating game on many fronts, none more so the tactical battle. truthfully the first time I saw a laois team prepare and execute a plan along modern day tactics. save for the god of joe canning, a monster shock would have occurred.

this offaly Waterford game was the polar opposite. I have no doubt now whatsoever that baker is clueless as an intercounty manager, as my best guess at his gameplan for offaly was to somehow try to be in contention coming into the closing stages and perhaps rob a win if Waterford froze.

the final scoreline is deceptive, if the Waterford forward line had converted even 1/3 of their second half goal chances, we were easily looking at a double digit win.

Waterford were better than I thought they would be, fitter in the end than offaly, and in brick they have the best centre half playing hurling today.

my read on the first half, was the wind was worth 6 points, and my recall of that near 42 minute half was offaly benefitting from schoolboy defending for the soft goal which allowed you to stay in touch. both deise midfielders missed golden goal chances, incredibly failing to hit the target. offaly were doing best when bypassing the half forward line and going direct into the full line, where I thought the deise looked more than shaky.

the second half Waterford owned, Kenny was heroic at full back, though how Waterford missed a series of goal chances beggared belief. from an offaly perspective, your midfield and half forward line mostly disappeared, and the supply to the full line was poor. walsh was like a magnet for every puckout and OY had no one to test him, putting shane Dooley out on him for ten minutes was some farce.

if you are looking through rose tinted glasses you could say that if currams had bagged the goal late on(o keeffe sublime stop), OY could have pulled it out of the fire, it would in effect have been daylight robbery.

Dempsey, Kenny , healion (for 50 mins), and currams were the only OY players that covered themselves with distinction. no class players(at this level) in midfield or half forward line, and it seems that Dooley and joe bergin tend to exercise themselves for 5 or 10 minutes and thereafter workrate drops. rory hanniffy has been a great soldier, his legs seemed to have run their course late on this evening.

very tough times ahead for OY, the spirit is still there, the class no longer.......the poverty of the OY subs compared to WD was noteworthy.

ps,

I thought that there was a lovely atmosphere, especially with the surprisingly big deise support. OCP is a great venue, it is now the ONLY big game venue, in play, in OY.

good luck to your U21s against KK midweek.

100% correct and true, great post , enough said.

[uibhfaillian fear]

Poor performance in the second half.At half time we were well in the game being only 4 points behind with a big wind advantage in the second half but why we decided to play with a 2 man full forward line in the second half when we had the wind is beyond me.Our forwards can't win ball in the air and insist on pulling wildly rather than putting their hand up for the ball.Also David Kenny who I thought was outstanding was continually left completely isolated one on one with the full forward with no support, thankfully we got away with it tonight but this isn't the first time this has happened in the last few years and you's have to wonder why.No variety in our puckout strategy was disappointing aswell.

I didn't see last nights game but this was something I noticed the last day when I was at the Kilkenny match. Are the players being told to do this, to swing at the ball in the air instead of try to field it? It doesn't work, it's aimless and looks like they don't trust themselves to win a fair amount of possession. They need to come up with better ways of winning and keeping possession, if they don't trust themselves to win 50/50 balls, they need to look at ways to play a short game or something.

[Killeighman]

Molloy dislocated his knee but there was no foul play involved

[Plain of the Herbs]

Devastating.

[jimbob17]

Pity last night as the game was there for the taking..... I thought the Offaly lads gave their all and nearly snuck a goal at death to catch Waterford. We never got aheasd in second half which we needed to. Thought Mahon was really doing good job on Brick Wlshe and he dominated once Mahon was moved. Dooley should have been left inside in my opinion as he clearly isnt fit enough to work hard enough in half forward line. Thought Carroll was doing ok at midfield and OY had drawn level when he was out there after scoring 2 points.....

Also thought Brady was excellent for 50 mins when he started to tire like many others in half back line midfield and half forward line. Waterford seemed to have that bit more in their legs at the end and probably coming form a higher level over past few years had the edge in fitness. This was clear to see and Offaly were always going to need goals. When the Brick started to dominate the ball went passed their half backline on very few occasions though Currams and Bergin looked threatening when it did go in.

All in all i think the year has been reasonably positive and we showed that we are capable of competing even if it came to a disappointing end yesterday.

Positives, Kilcormac in club championship.......Dublin in league, wexford in league, Limerick first half and Antrim second half. KK in Championship and Waterford for 50 mins in Championship, blooding of a few new young players who did ok....

Negatives, Losing to waterford when game was there to be won, Carlow performance, Limerick second half.... refusal of some players capable of playing to commit to the county team

[Toxicity234]

Well after two years of Ollie Baker we haven't made any progress. If anything we had gone back.

The blame for losing this game has to rest complete on the Offaly management. A blind man could see that Brian Carroll was being bully in the midfield battle;

From the first min he was complete out fought and out muscled. It’s not the first time this year, Limerick, Carlow, Antrim and Kilkenny we lost the midfield battle. For Limerick we had Slevin beside Carroll, for Carlow it was Bergin and Carroll, for Antrim it was Hanniffy and Carroll. Kilkenny its Brady and Carroll. Now fair enough for a while in Killkenny game Carroll did ok in midfield. The only reason we beat Carlow and Antrim was in the Carlow game we brought Mooney on and Brady to midfield and Antrim Brady and Hanniffy ended up in the middle of the park. OK whatever about Carroll at midfield at centre forward in what universe is that a good idea??? I had to laugh when I saw it. I feel for Brady he work himself in the ground. The only reason we were so close at halftime was because Slevin and Mahon were dropping in the middle and giving a hand. Brady was always going to run out of legs. I was tired just looking at him. The disappointing thing is could have done lots of thing to spark our midfield. We could have brought Currums out and move Carroll to no 15 and Bergin to no 14. That the 1st thing that came into my head. At 55 mins how the best ball winning midfielder in the county this year Kilmartin was left on the bench when we were being wipe out in midfield. Now that just insanity.

Our puck out in the second half WFT. 15 of 18 to Colin Egan. The other 3 straight down on Walsh. Now after 2 years in charge we think that we might be able to come up a different plan. We had that plan last year against Galway it didn’t work every well that day and it’s just as bad Saturday. Waterford Player didn’t have to think about where the puck out were going they all went to Egan, they just had to get close to him and it stop our attack.

The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Well I come to the conclusion that Baker and the rest of the Offaly management are insane. I know I have gone a bit insane hope that this Offaly Management team is going to do something different but then you see Brian Carroll trying to win a ball in the air with Walsh behind him and you know all is lost.

Waterford were mile ahead of up. We could have taking a pasting if they had put away their chance’s.

Baker end of year interview on the Sunday game last night. “these players are in get into Hibernate for the next 8 months” he must not think much of Offaly club hurling.

Baker has had two years and I think that enough. The county board should be on to Baker today to say “thank for your work over the last two years and best of luck in the future” and try to have a new management team in place before the quarter final of the Club Championship. I hope to god the county board go and have a chat with Danny Owen.

[The Double K]

Everybody is making very valid points, Offaly's fitness level is way behind what is required to compete at this level but why?????. Its not rocket science lads that if you are fit you dont start making silly mistakes. Not playing in Division 1A cannot be used as an excuse for not being fit, it wouldn't be hard now to pick the majority of next years panel why arent these guys kept together once the club championship is finished to do some gym work etc during the winter months.

I thought it was a terrible decision to take off Slevin, he was getting on the ball, giving good ball to the inside line and getting involved in the middle of the field. OK he hadn't scored but he was contributing a lot more than some. Speaking to people since Saturday evening there seems to be a general consensus that no matter how bad Dooley or Bergin hurl they will NEVER be taken off. When Molloy got injured Dooley had to go to the sideline to get his leg rubbed, his contribution from play over the last 2 games has been very poor. Do the selectors have no say in changes?????? or how can 3 people agree that its a good move to take Conor Mahon from centre forward where he was holding Brick Walsh to Midfield and put one of the smallest if not the smallest player on the field in Carroll at centre forward. Someone has already quoted a figure of 15/18 puck outs put down on Colin Egan, how many did he win???, surely as a goalkeeper himself Stephen Byrne should be able to give Dempsey some advice as how to vary puck outs, from what I could see on the Offaly bench Byrne is Bakers goffer, he spent more time on the field than some players did.

On a different topic but match related did anybody have the misfortune of parking in O Brien Park Saturday evening?. Fair play to Tullamore in seeing an opportunity to make a few euro for car parking, €4 per car is good value when its so close to the ground and was well stewarded before the game, after the game was a different story completely with not one steward to be seen. I got back to the car at 8:40pm and drove out of O Brien Park at 9:27pm this is scandolous by Tullamore GAA club to take money off people and then just walk away, it was everyman for himself getting out of the field with 7 cars converging on the gate from various angles, a lot of horn blowing and angry words were being exchanged. There was a large Waterford contingent parked in there and to be sitting in a car park that long and still have to face a 2 1/2 hr drive home is not acceptable, Fergal Mckeown was eating a burger in the car park when i was heading to my car, it was a good job he wasnt still around when I got out or I know where the burger would be now!!!!. An elderly gent in his late 60's got out of a car well back in the queue put on his coat and went up to the Arden rd to direct traffic. Tullamore GAA you should be ashamed of yourselves!!!!!

[Sharp Eye]

Ollie Baker's role as Offaly Senior Hurling Manager must now end. Waterford (without John Mullane etc) would have hammered Offaly but for poor shooting (17 wides). It is most surprising that Ollie Baker did not start any Under 21 player and instead selected players such as Chris Mc Donald, Dermot Mooney, Ger Healion,Kevin Brady and Ciaran Slevin who are not up to Senior Inter-County standard. Jimmy Barry Murphy deserves great credit for giving youth a chance and for giving Cork Hurling a real future.

[corner back]

Lads, I didn't make the match on Sunday but two work colleagues who were there and generally wouldn't have much clue about hurling both reckoned that the Offaly team were terribly unfit. Was this an issue? Who looks after the fitness for the county team?

[DAF]

Ollie Baker's role as Offaly Senior Hurling Manager must now end. Waterford (without John Mullane etc) would have hammered Offaly but for poor shooting (17 wides). It is most surprising that Ollie Baker did not start any Under 21 player and instead selected players such as Chris Mc Donald, Dermot Mooney, Ger Healion,Kevin Brady and Ciaran Slevin who are not up to Senior Inter-County standard. Jimmy Barry Murphy deserves great credit for giving youth a chance and for giving Cork Hurling a real future.

Are there many players in the county better than those you mention.

Chris McDonald was excellent against Kilkenny,Ger Healion done well in the two games and his reading of the game and use of possession is good he may lack pace but he was one of Offalys best players in the championship this year, Kevin Brady played well for most of the game on Saturday he lost his way from the middle of the second half but then so did alot of Offalys players. Ciaran Slevin has had one year of intercounty hurling he needs more a full year of training with the county team and a league campaign next year will do him alot of good

[JohnnyB]

such a disappointment in the camp after saturday and personally i htink it all fallls down to management and the lack of fitness of the team . shane dooley looks like a beach whale out on that hurling field he gets himself known as offalys saviour for his free taking ability what does he do other than that? yes fair enough he got a good goal against waterford where was he for the other 60 minutes ... its a disgrace to send a intercounty hurler out in that shape.... after yesterday i just feel so disappointed not only with the loss but wit the fact that it could be brady and hannifys last days out in an offaly shirt and will be major losses if they do go after yesterdays performance also could be brian carrolls last year after being a long servant and hurled one decent game this year hopefully its onwards and upwards wit new management but not looking likely.......

[Lone Shark]

I've been slow to get back to this thread because the result was so devastating that I was genuinely upset after it and I didn't want to post up in a flurry of emotion. This game was simply huge for this team - they needed a win and it was perfectly set up for us. We had momentum after a "positive" defeat, they were in a bad place, we were at home, they had the injuries and we were essentially at full strength with the exception of Parlon. We even got most of the close calls from James McGrath - who wasn't as biased as Waterford felt he was, (for example none of the three shouts for penalties were a penalty, but that's not to say that another ref mightn't have given them one purely on the law of averages) but he still played into our hands. Without trying to pick on Cathal P either, I don't think we were any worse off with Morkan at number 7, the Shinrone man had an excellent game I thought. So everything was in our favour.

I also think the observations here so far cover a lot of it - there was a sense that it was badly handled and that Waterford left the door open for us and we were unable to walk through it. That is gutting because this team is running out of time. I don't know how long players like Rory Hanniffy and Brian Carroll are going to keep coming back, but if there are young players out there with the ability to fill their shoes, I don't know who they are.

Also, just on that point, I think Brian Carroll is getting an unfair going over in some of the posts above. The modern game asks a lot of a midfielder (at a guess I'd say a midfielder covers at least 50% more ground than any other player on the field) and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could put in a hard shift in that role and then go in to mark the Brick. Mahon was doing fine there, or they could have moved Colin across either - or even put Bergin on to him to maybe put Walsh on the back foot a little. Certainly Carroll was the wrong choice and berating him for being unable to cope there is unfair I think.

I'll just break my observations down into points, since it's easier to do that.

(1) The ability of Dooley and Bergin to produce a moment of magic makes it impossible to take either man off and I wouldn't have withdrawn either of them, having said that they were exceptionally quiet and if it wasn't for one shocking handpass from Liam Lawlor, Shane Dooley would have ended the championship without a score from play. Others on here are calling his fitness into question, I'm not there at the fitness tests in training so I've no idea if that's an issue or not. Neither should what I'm about to say be taken as a suggestion that he's a weak link - however at the moment, he's simply not playing up to his potential. In terms of raw talent, Dooley is a better hurler than 98% of intercounty forwards out there. Now that Mullane has retired, there actually isn't a forward in the province of Munster that I'd pick ahead of him in terms of ability, and yet if you said that to them down there, they'd laugh at the idea, simply because he hasn't shown it all year, league or championship. That man's career will be over before he knows it and if he retires without an All Star it will be a travesty - but he needs to ask himself what he needs to do to deliver more and to show the world how good he is.

Bergin for me is a different type of player, and one that needs space to really thrive. His deceptive pace and his ability to glide through tackles is immense, but in crowds, you can't use that. Tactically, we didn't exploit that well. Some of that comes back to the player who would undoubtedly want to deliver more, but some of that has to go back to the management as well.

(2) In general, I would exempt our defence from the bulk of the criticism, however you have to wonder how we struggled so much to shut down an attack where one man (Shanahan) was playing very well and where one man (Dillon) was doing reasonably well, and the others were at nothing. Barron, O'Brien, Prendergast, these offered nothing - yet we were still outclassed.

(3) Further to the above point, some of the deliveries from midfield and half back were a little brainless. I know we were crowded out in the back line, but all we needed to do was work the ball to half way and shoot for points - we seemed unable to do that, instead looking to bomb it long into packs of players.

(4) The puckout variation was a huge issue. When Dempsey hit the half forward line at the start of the second half, I thought he was just keeping Waterford honest, to prevent them from crowding out the inside - yet we never looked to go beyond that line and to use the wind. He could have hit the full line if he wanted to, and if the half forwards stood between the 45 and 65m line, the half backs would have had to follow and we'd have had mismatches inside. Why was this not done? Why did we keep hitting Colin even after Waterford put an extra man there to cover what they knew would be Offaly's main outlet? Why did we never look to go short and exploit the fact that two of our most natural hurlers and best exponents of accurate passing were at 5 and 7? In the modern game, you know that you'll take at least 30 puckouts per match. There's just no excuse for having so little imagination when things were going so badly.

(5) I think it's fair to say that we don't have any obvious big names to call upon on the bench, with the exception of Paul Cleary, who is clearly not rated by this management team for whatever reason. The squad is relatively shallow, however we do have some "situational" players who could make an impact in a certain role. I thought that Kilmartin would have been an obvious choice and while I've good time for hurlers like Seán Gardiner, who did fine on his introduction, Seán was not likely to solve any of our problems. He came on, he did his job, he made no mistakes - but his introduction was never going to address any of the problems we had. Kilmartin, Ryan, Seán Cleary, any of those guys might have given us something different in that crucial middle third. Hell, we could have let Paul Cleary come in at 3/6 and let Ger Healion up there to stand into the Brick - I think we all know that he wouldn't have got things so handy then. Nobody would hang the management team for trying any sort of change even if it didn't work out. The fact that they tried nothing was galling.

(5) My heart goes out to lads like David Kenny, Rory Hanniffy and a few others, who simply can't do any more.


We've a bleak, bleak future ahead of us based on underage results and chances like this will be rare enough. That's why it's such a tragedy that this one was let slip.

Forget what I said at the start, it still hurts.