Allianz-Hurling-league 1B

[townman]

agree with most on here its Bakers second league and we are getting worse, we have fell back from
where Joe Dooley had us we were in division 1 with joe we had a team that fought for the jersey.

last years league was poor with a clare side missing most there top players beat us in tullamore
we had a good lead over wexford in the championship in tullamore i think we were 7 points up in the second half then
Baker had us playing the same sh.t as yesterday 2 man fullforward line and if wexford had another 5 minutes they would have caught us last year in the championship.

i know there is about 10 players gone off the panel from last year and some are fine young good players
i still don't care what anyone says there is enough good players still in offaly that would have been better than what was put on display yesterday and again Carlow.

we have won the leinster club championship the last two years, tullamore got to the final in 09 Birr
won it in 08, sure to god we can get a panel together that can do better than we have seen the last two years.

ST.Rynaghs got to the final last year the semil the year before, and there is no sign of any of them players getting in with the county, K/K this year Kilmartin and Brian Leonard should be in there two powerfull men and can hurl.

i could pick a team from around the clubs in offaly that would do better than yesterday or i'd say would beat that offaly side, whats wrong in the county, wheres Eoin Ryan and Kevin Connolly, two good underage players with offaly and done well with Coolderry last year.

Baker hasn't found any new blood, going back for players that have been there for years, young Sean Gardiner had a good game again Dublin in the first round and done well, was unlucky to be took off again wexford as at least 5 could have went before him, where is he now ?

was going to go to the Antrim game won't bother me arse after the last two games money is to tight now to watch a shambles and a man getting well payed for doing it.

i have had more joy watching Birr,Coolderry,K/K, in the club runs the last few years than sitting in an
cold O'Connor park watching a poor county team every year.

my next game please god will be again kilkenny in the championship and heaven help us that day
i am not young enough to remember offaly hurling in the 70's but men who do say we are heading back to that eara and quick.

its 2000 since we had any underage titles minor and under 21 leinsters that it, so when the last few Dooley,Kenny,Bergin,Hanniffy, are gone we are in the sh.tes big time, with the likes of Carlow,Antrim, even laois could over take us and division 2 is where we will end up if nothing is done.

this debate about where we should play our hurling Birr or tullamore doesn't matter anymore because looking at sundays side i'd say about 4 of that team played for offaly in Birr so tullamore would be home for most.

besides the club championship in offaly thats all we have to look forward to as the county team is dieing on its feet under Baker and co.

[keenonsport]

Not exactly Mr. Current Affairs are you Townman? Eoin Ryan has suffered a cruciate ligament injury and is likely to miss the year. Sean Gadiner has gone to Australia for a few weeks but will be back. Brian Leonard had been called in numerous times down through the years and has no interest in going in. Kevin Connolly has been used mainly as a sub for Cooldery over the past few years so if he cant make his club team why should he be on a county team? Also, have to say I don't see any correlation between success at club level and success at county level. It's a totally different ball game and I think this has been proven by Offaly club's success at club level but lack of it at county level. Some players are simply suited to one rather than the other. This thing about blaming Baker-when do we start to lay the blame at the foot of the players? They simply don't produce, with some obvious exceptions, when they put on the Offaly jersey. 'the same sh.t as yesterday 2 man fullforward line' was working very well in the 1st half and that was how we got both our goals in the first half! Players need to stand up and be counted over a full game, not just a half!

[Toxicity234]

Not exactly Mr. Current Affairs are you Townman? Eoin Ryan has suffered a cruciate ligament injury and is likely to miss the year. Sean Gadiner has gone to Australia for a few weeks but will be back. Brian Leonard had been called in numerous times down through the years and has no interest in going in. Kevin Connolly has been used mainly as a sub for Cooldery over the past few years so if he cant make his club team why should he be on a county team? Also, have to say I don't see any correlation between success at club level and success at county level. It's a totally different ball game and I think this has been proven by Offaly club's success at club level but lack of it at county level. Some players are simply suited to one rather than the other. This thing about blaming Baker-when do we start to lay the blame at the foot of the players? They simply don't produce, with some obvious exceptions, when they put on the Offaly jersey. 'the same sh.t as yesterday 2 man fullforward line' was working very well in the 1st half and that was how we got both our goals in the first half! Players need to stand up and be counted over a full game, not just a half!

I don't know about townman, but i didn't hear about Ryan and that shocking for the poor lad. he is a real talent and we could do with him.
i hadn't hear about Gadiner as well, so much for winter training.
As for Leonard there no harm in going to him again. he was on the panel a few year ago but was messed around by the county and dropped. he a good hurler and we need him. And if gadiner is gone we should ask Grogan as well.
Kevin Connolly has being used as a sub but everyone has see his skills, there no harm in bring him on the panel for the future.

No-one here is saying that sccess at club level will level will lead at county level. But Coolderry and KK played a very similar brand of hurling. so it would help if Baker would look at what working at club level and try to bring that to county level.

The players have to take some of the blame as well but Baker and his management team must take alot of the blame for having us playing a style of hurling that we are not able to. We got away with robbery in Carlow last week. The players don't look like they know what there doing and the management doesn't look like they can tell them.
We lost a lot of hurlers this year. That not a good sign

[first_touch]

I know this wont go down to well but for me Baker has to go. He shouldnt have got the job in the first place, get someone in now and let them prepare for next year because we can write this year off straight away. There is no bond between the players , heading to Antrim next week end fighting for our divison 1b status. Unless we get a manager with experience we will struggle, we have had Coolderry,k/k in All Ireland finals in the last two years and in my mind we have a strong club championship so we should have a good spread of players to work with. We will be lucky to stay in divison 1b over the next few years if we dont cop on now.

Couldn't agree more.

[SearingDrive]

Limerick 0-21 Offaly 3-8
I still think Ciaran Slevin did not get into the game yesterday, one simple point attempt just before half time was missed. There is a difference between club fare and inter county standard.
As for Offaly staying in 1B, a previous poster made the same point.
We're all entitled to express our opinion, what makes you an expert?. Maybev you should learn to spell first.
Ciaran Slevin found the step from club hurling to county level too much.
Another season in 1B for 2014.

that's rubbish.
If you going to bring in a player, playing him in the correct position. Baker should have played him no.10.
He did well in midfield, he fought for every ball and anything he get he use well. better than most palyer. if the rest of the team work as hard as he did we would have won. he was up aginist 2 midfielder as Carroll was wandering and wasn't fight for any ball. Its a week after an all ireland club final as well and he and the other KK players should not have being ask to play today.
What happen to Bergin and Molloy
For the first 20 mins we let the ball do the work. after that the backs passed instead for letting the ball in fast.
we should have being another 5 or 6 up at half time. bad control, bad use of the ball let us down . Tom Carroll work his socks off on a different day he could have being the difference.
the backs just tried to walk the ball out of defence in the second half,
i hope to god i don't ever see Offaly play a two man full forward line, Its a great tatics when its use well. But we don't have a fecking clue how to use it.

Demspey and Kenny were great today. What was Egan sent off for?? a midfielder has to win aleast 50% of the battle on the ground. Selvin won around that.
B. Carroll won about 0%. i thing is for sure he not a midfielder.

Antrim could well beat us next sunday and then we be in a regulation battle aginist Carlow.

Baker has to go.
the players have to deside if they want to win as a team or lose as individual.
If you don't work for your team mate them you don't get to play.
Back to basic. let the ball do the work.

[jimbob17]

I don't know about all this negativity and apportioning of blame. People have this perception that Joe Dooley got us to division 1 and yes he did. But we were relegated right away and that was when there was eight teams in div 1. If we win against antrim, it leaves us in third in the league, a position of 9th overall which was where we were when Baker started and JD finished his last year with us 2nd in Div 2??

Would agree that we were caught short at midfield and sweeper doesnt work that well in hurling as a fella can score from 60 - 80 yards in hurling unlike football....In my opinion, the hurling equivalent of a sweeper should be a corner forward playing at midfield to give an edge on puckouts etc but no further back than that as to my mind it is futile..... This is the only gripe really id have with the last day and semed to me to be the root cause of Limericks dominance. The team selected, for me would be very close to our best.....

There are bigger issues at play here. Numerous "legends" of the county team of the 90's knock Baker in the media including Daithi Reagan on the radio of late and this hasnt helped in getting people to support the team..... But tell me this, what have any of that team of great offaly men given back to Offaly since of any worth in a coaching capacity. All would have got a lot out of hurling for Offaly and as far as i know, only Johnny Pilkington (minor) and Steven Byrne (u21) have taken on a mantle and responsibility of training a county team. Don't know about Byrne's 21's but most would know where JP's minor team ended up after losing to westmeath in a first round. OK john Troy is doing a bit with the camoige but that aside???

This is allied to the fact that numerous players who are asked in will not commit and I know this for a fact as 2 in my own club have been asked in and declined the offer despite both being capable of offering something.....
If questions are to be asked, Offaly hurling needs to ask itself some certain questions....

1 Has Brian Whelehan. Daithi Reagan, Hubert Rigney Kevin Martin johnny Dooley Kevin Kinahan and their golden generation et al done much and if not, can they really bemoan the lack of current success?

2 What has Baker got to look at in terms of playing personnell?? only numerous players of relative inexperience at top level, no experience of underage success and a generally poor experience of being involved in Offaly county minor and 21 teams where they are regularly beaten by the likes of Laoise Westmeath and Carlow.....

3 What has Baker got in terms of support from county board in relation to backroom team comparatively to the likes of Dublin and Limerick and Wexford, our 3 main competitors in the division??

4 How many of our players have played Fitzgibbon cup on a regular basis in last 4/5 years.

4 How have the minors and 21 teams done since 2008 (5 years ago) and if it is not good, why is it not good??

5 How are the development squads in hurling doing at the moment and who is over the running of them??

6 How often do they train and what kind of coaching do they get?

only If and when these questions can be answered in a positive manner, can we look to even consider the possibility of being competitive at the top tier. In my opinion we are wasting our time bemoaning the shortcomings of the senior management team whoever it may be given the current state of Offaly hurling in general and in 5-10 years time, if we are still ahead of westmeath and Carlow, we will be doing well......

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

The reality in Offaly is that playing for offaly is no longer an attractive proposition, and true, Baker found it difficult to get in selectors. Mark Corrigan would not have been involved much in Offaly hurling since he finished and also Stephen Byrne oversaw a pretty disastrous u21 campaign.

Jimbobs points are all valid, and could be applied to football also.

We need someone to take on the reigns who is passionate about Offaly hurling, and give him some good backroom expertise.These dont have to cost a fortune either.
Also I know its easy to blame Baker, in fairness some players have let him down. Someone was asking what was the story with Derek Molloy, why wasnt he playin v Lim, sure he contributed nothing so far in the league? Its musical chairs at the moment in the forwards.

[Plain of the Herbs]

I don't have much time here but Jimbob17 makes alot of valid points here and I'm more inclined to agree with him than with the 'blame the outsider' side of the debate.

Anyway, it's early in the year yet. It's still March (it's snowing where I am as I type) and I presume the real 'ballwork' training hasn't really got underway yet.

Remember Joe Dooley's first NHL campaign involved a defeat by Laois and then descended into farce during a heavy defeat by Limerick. The year is long yet.

I don't know about all this negativity and apportioning of blame. People have this perception that Joe Dooley got us to division 1 and yes he did. But we were relegated right away and that was when there was eight teams in div 1. If we win against antrim, it leaves us in third in the league, a position of 9th overall which was where we were when Baker started and JD finished his last year with us 2nd in Div 2??

Would agree that we were caught short at midfield and sweeper doesnt work that well in hurling as a fella can score from 60 - 80 yards in hurling unlike football....In my opinion, the hurling equivalent of a sweeper should be a corner forward playing at midfield to give an edge on puckouts etc but no further back than that as to my mind it is futile..... This is the only gripe really id have with the last day and semed to me to be the root cause of Limericks dominance. The team selected, for me would be very close to our best.....

There are bigger issues at play here. Numerous "legends" of the county team of the 90's knock Baker in the media including Daithi Reagan on the radio of late and this hasnt helped in getting people to support the team..... But tell me this, what have any of that team of great offaly men given back to Offaly since of any worth in a coaching capacity. All would have got a lot out of hurling for Offaly and as far as i know, only Johnny Pilkington (minor) and Steven Byrne (u21) have taken on a mantle and responsibility of training a county team. Don't know about Byrne's 21's but most would know where JP's minor team ended up after losing to westmeath in a first round. OK john Troy is doing a bit with the camoige but that aside???

This is allied to the fact that numerous players who are asked in will not commit and I know this for a fact as 2 in my own club have been asked in and declined the offer despite both being capable of offering something.....
If questions are to be asked, Offaly hurling needs to ask itself some certain questions....

1 Has Brian Whelehan. Daithi Reagan, Hubert Rigney Kevin Martin johnny Dooley Kevin Kinahan and their golden generation et al done much and if not, can they really bemoan the lack of current success?

2 What has Baker got to look at in terms of playing personnell?? only numerous players of relative inexperience at top level, no experience of underage success and a generally poor experience of being involved in Offaly county minor and 21 teams where they are regularly beaten by the likes of Laoise Westmeath and Carlow.....

3 What has Baker got in terms of support from county board in relation to backroom team comparatively to the likes of Dublin and Limerick and Wexford, our 3 main competitors in the division??

4 How many of our players have played Fitzgibbon cup on a regular basis in last 4/5 years.

4 How have the minors and 21 teams done since 2008 (5 years ago) and if it is not good, why is it not good??

5 How are the development squads in hurling doing at the moment and who is over the running of them??

6 How often do they train and what kind of coaching do they get?

only If and when these questions can be answered in a positive manner, can we look to even consider the possibility of being competitive at the top tier. In my opinion we are wasting our time bemoaning the shortcomings of the senior management team whoever it may be given the current state of Offaly hurling in general and in 5-10 years time, if we are still ahead of westmeath and Carlow, we will be doing well......

[townman]

yes but i think kilkenny will make the year very short as well.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Antrim in Belfast at the end of the week (or the beginning of next week if you're that way inclined).

Now, it's still the middle of winter (weather-wise), and a football match in Belfast had to be postponed last weekend. The Antrim County Board now plan to play that refixed NFL match against Meath immediately prior to the Antrim v Offaly NHL match. Madness, but unfortunately that's their prerogative.

There are a few alternative possibilities. Either the Offaly match will be postponed - in which case I would sooner Offaly were informed before they set out on the journey. Or the match will be moved to a club ground further north. We'll wait and see.

[Killeighman]

is there any word on joe bergin because word is that before the match against limerick he got hit in the eye with a sliothar and he was brought straight up to dublin with it. not good news if its true

[Kevin]

Hope he's okay.

They make mention of the incident in here a little ways down:

http://www.offaly.gaa.ie/offaly-news

[kinnittyman]

The last two Sundays have seen me witness some of the worst hurling produced by Offaly teams since I started going to games. Offaly in Carlow were absolutely deplorable. Constantly second to the breaking ball and a huge inability to claim primary possession and use it wisely.

Anyone who was in Carlow would then not have been surprised by Offaly's performance against Limerick. Our old failings coming home to roost after around 20 minutes. This coupled with what I can only describe as complete and utter ineptitude from our management. For instance hurling is a game where scores can be easily got from 60 yards and when a strong wind is at your back this can be increased to up to 100 yards. So why oh why would any manager that has any sort of brain power (ah, maybe I'm onto something here!) place a spare man directly in front of your team' s full back. Jesus Christ, the scores were coming from out the field. This move completley and utterly handed the initiative to Limerick and it took 7 Limerick points (yes 7!) to be scored before this move was reversed. Coincidentally (or maybe not!!) we scored our goal when we brought Brian Carroll back to midfield.

For the statisticians out there:
Limerick scored 0-07 with Brian Carroll contributing nothing in front of David Kenny.
Limerick scored 0-06 with Brian Carroll in midfield in the second half.

In the first half Limerick were much more positive than Offaly were when we were playing against the wind and actually managed to outpoint Offaly yet we had the wind with us. Amazing what a positive mindset might do for a team. Baker handed the keys to the game to Limerick with his half time tactical "masterclass" and they took full advantage.

By no means have we a super hurling team but at least give them a tactical system that allows them to play to their strengths rather than inflict this rubbish on them. And I thought Baker's tactical ideas couldn 't get any worse after last years "man on man" system he employed against Galway. I'm very close to starting a hashtag #BakerOut

[Lone Shark]

I'm very close to starting a hashtag #BakerOut

[Plain of the Herbs]

Some of hurling's self-styled 'blue bloods' aren't pleased that there is relegation from the top division, having been asked their opinion in today's 'Daily Cork'.
See here http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/ ... 26717.html

They'd prefer to have eight teams in Division 1. And why wouldn't they? I'd hazard a guess that their preference would be to have the 5 Munster teams, Kilkenny and Galway perennially in the top flight, to be joined by some crowd from Leinster (who would alternate each year, Offaly, Wexford & Dublin taking turns to gain promotion, be glad to be there, accept seven league defeats from those 'blue bloods' and then return silently to the second division.

On a serious note, I do expect there to be a protest by the division 1a team who eventually finishes bottom. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that relegation from the top flight be annulled this year. That would spell disaster for Offaly, Wexford, Antrim and the other Division 1b teams. At least this year, Offaly had three competitive games against Dublin, Wexford and Limerick. If relegation were to be scrapped, one of Limerick or Dublin (whoever gains promotion) would be replaced in Offaly's division by either Laois or Westmeath. As it is, at least Offaly are in line to play a relegated team in next year's league, whether it be cork, Tipperary, Galway or whoever. That match would be at home if Dublin are promoted, and away if Limerick win the promotion play-off.

As for Offaly's relegation situation - a relegation Final against Carlow might be no harm. it would help sharpen the minds.