Allianz FL Division 4 2013

[DAF]

Townman,I have to take issue over Niall Smith. He is potentially the best midfielder in the county. However, the best are the ones who can commit. He cant match the committment that his manager wants because of his job, so thats it? Its a conundrum, but dont tell me he wouldnt offer more than ALan Mc or Ross?

Dalton is written off here by many, but I do feel that he has come on over the last 2 years. He must be carrying an injury or he would surely start?

I make the suggestion about some of the players I listed, as some of them are still at an age that can play at a high level, and were part of a team that did push for Div 2. They may have "matured" in their atitude, and if they could help this group of players get out of this division then they would hev served a purpose.

-Couple of points made by posters, "P Cunningham was playing well before he was taken off"- eh no , he wasnt, he was fouled a couple of times, he handpassed a ball over the sideline, he kicked a brutal wide from in front of the goals. But was he worse than any of the rest?, Probably not.
-G Guilfoyle-"He's not a great kicker of a ball, but he had no one to kick it to", So he kicks it 20 yds cross field to a Clare man, on 2 different occasions.

Look lets face it, we are in a difficult situation, and the lads confidence has been well knocked over the last couple of weeks. But now is the time to dig in. Clare kicked away ball too, and despite everything we had the same amount of wides, (i was sure we would have had a lot less than them).

I was looking for signs that McDonnell would change our style and leave a couple of forwards up close to goal, but this rarely happened. But yet, when Guilfoyle put the head down and ran at his man, he cut through and gave a great pass to Darby, who, made a super support run to bury the goal.

Pender for Rigney should have been, Pender for Eoin Carroll, (who looked out on his feet for most of the game), with Rigney to half back and Guilfoyle to Half Forward. McPadden was far superior to B Allen. And Cunningham should have been left in the full forward line. Have him working off Nialler.

Stick with it lads, tis all we can do!

Peter Cunningham was having an impact and you provided thje reason yourself, he was winning frees and for a team like offaly a player who can force opponents into fouling him is invaluable he won 3 or 4 frees around the 45 metre line in the time he was on the field those or attacking platforms which a team like Offaly shoud be using to score from or at least create chances from.A player like Cunnigham gives a defence something to worry about without him or Anton our attack has zero pace and very little treath apart from hoping Niall McNamee does something spectacular.

[timber]

In my opinion lads, I think Anton is probably a bit over rated in the county to be honest. He would'nt make the starting 15 for most other counties. He is of course far better than the likes of Bernard Allen, Carroll or McPadden but I would not say he is the difference between winning or losing a game.

The team is really lacking players with leadership qualities.

Somebody said it already. The players on the panel are just not good enough. Look back at the players Offaly had even around 2007 or 2008. The quality of player was far better. I see Scott brady was mentioned. Well being honest Id have him ahead of Dalton, McNamee or Ross any day of the week.

The panel is very weak. Offaly club football has dropped back badly. Id say since Rhode blew it in parnell park against kilmacud, football in the county has been slipping badly. That Rhode team would hammer the current one. And there was definately 3 good challengers in the county back then pushing Rhode. All have since gone back terribly.

[Bord na Mona man]

Im nearly certain it was Pat Roe that took us to Div 4 but we got out the following year because we were above that level beating Tipp in the final. Now, we are not above this level and this is because a lot of these current players dont really know what it is like to train at a serious level. We can all pick a different 15 but generally, we should be in agreeance on the best 30/40 footballers in the county. With the volume of turnover in recent years, we dont even know this much anymore......

Yep, it was Pat Roe who relegated us to Div 4. I'm not sure Offaly football has ever fully recovered from that one since. That year (2007) ended up with the debacle of him trying to convince players to turn up to fulfil the Tommy Murphy Cup game against Wicklow, 2008 ended with Down putting 5-19 past Offaly in Tellamore in the qualifiers.

From being Leinster finalists in 2006, Offaly football was a laughing stock two years later. Off field discipline standards sank, the bar of expectation was lowered and never raised in any meaningful way since then. Remember that from 2000 to 2005 Offaly footballers were a team that usually emptied the tank in every game, and were the victim of some rotten luck in all of those years.

Perhaps the aftermath of the 2006 Leinster final was the pivotal moment. When many of the players decided to take the foot off the pedal and put in a half arsed qualifier performance against Leix. Also for too many players in their early and mid 20s, 2006 was the highpoint in their performance levels and they dropped back significantly after that.

This is 5 or 6 years ago and ancient history in GAA terms now, but imagine any young player joining the panel since then and coming into an atmosphere where there are too many fellas coasting.

[brownie]

alot of blame been fired around.....the facts are 1) why did mcdonnell get the job,wouldnt it have been better to give him the minor job for 2yrs and build a squad for u21 and senior teams in the future.2)not mcdonnells fault he got the job-- an incompetent outgoing CB chairman put him in place after he looked for the minor job.3)why give him the u21 job after paschal had brought some pride back..pride that is gone again..4) now he has the job, mcdonnell is trying to play catch up with kildare by over training the players.training sessions lasting 4hrs...they trained at 6.30am and 6.30pm the day after the limerick defeat.half a dozen players carrying injuries as a result.my biggest issue is that mcdonnell is now showing his inexperience at senior level..he refused to give match interviews after the limerick and clare games and reportedly failed to show for the team meal last sunday.Eamon fitzmaurice gave rte an interview after 3 defeats and commended his players on their efforts after losing.
if i was a player thats was getting cruel training sessions and putting the time in and then when we lose the manager does a runner, i think my cofidence would be low too.
this year our plan should have been settling for promotion in the league and a good performance in the championship.looks like neither now.another year wasted.
we are not as bad as we think.we just need the proper people in place.our club games are no worse than westmeath,laois or kildare yet they can produce results on the county scene.

[jimbob17]

alot of blame been fired around.....the facts are 1) why did mcdonnell get the job,wouldnt it have been better to give him the minor job for 2yrs and build a squad for u21 and senior teams in the future.2)not mcdonnells fault he got the job-- an incompetent outgoing CB chairman put him in place after he looked for the minor job.3)why give him the u21 job after paschal had brought some pride back..pride that is gone again..4) now he has the job, mcdonnell is trying to play catch up with kildare by over training the players.training sessions lasting 4hrs...they trained at 6.30am and 6.30pm the day after the limerick defeat.half a dozen players carrying injuries as a result.my biggest issue is that mcdonnell is now showing his inexperience at senior level..he refused to give match interviews after the limerick and clare games and reportedly failed to show for the team meal last sunday.Eamon fitzmaurice gave rte an interview after 3 defeats and commended his players on their efforts after losing.
if i was a player thats was getting cruel training sessions and putting the time in and then when we lose the manager does a runner, i think my cofidence would be low too.
this year our plan should have been settling for promotion in the league and a good performance in the championship.looks like neither now.another year wasted.
we are not as bad as we think.we just need the proper people in place.our club games are no worse than westmeath,laois or kildare yet they can produce results on the county scene.

If this is the case, id be very disappointed.....firstly from a recovery point of view, sure its no wonder clare ran us off the pitch...Secondly from a leadership point of view, you always need to back your players otherwise you can lose the dresing room quite easily....

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Anyway, enough doom and gloom, what better way to shack off the cobwebs??? Saturday night in Carrick on Shannon, and the big game on Sunday!

Imagine what could have been

[Lone Shark]

I haven't had a chance to buy the physical copy of the local papers yet, I won't be back in Offaly until the weekend, but I was somewhat intrigued by some of the language that was used in the Tullamore/Midland Tribune this week in their articles posted online.

For example:

It was a collective malfunction and it was a pity as this group of players are clearly giving it everything they have in training and really want to do well but this performance showed how much work still has to be done before they become truly competitive.

Fair play to the players for the commitment they have given to date but it is now obvious just how far off the mark they are and how long a road lies ahead: Again patience is needed by everyone involved, management, players and equally importantly, supporters....

Offaly looked tired after their intensive training programme in recent weeks and there will be better days in the future

The reasons are difficult to pinpoint and maybe Offaly were lethargic as a result of their intensive training regime but no matter what way this one is examined, it was a sub standard performance with only a few redeeming factors.
They did try but it just did not happen for them and they were in trouble in all sectors:

The stakes are massive and McDonnell will be demanding a vastly improved performance - Sunday's performance was mystifying as Offaly have worked exceptionally hard and trained well under the Edenderry school teacher.
Indeed, Offaly looked to have turned a corner with a promising O'Byrne Cup campaign as the players responded very positively to a tough new training regime.

Now as somebody who is charged with the responsibility of writing an opinion/analytical piece in the Offaly Indo every week, I'm obviously not going to criticise other writers who also lapse into editorialising at times. I do have a personal issue with match reporting pieces that have individual interpretation woven throughout what should be a factual piece, but that's a matter of personal taste and obviously the Tribune sells a lot of copies and that's what counts.

However there is a strong vibe throughout the two articles in question of pushing the idea that the players/management are working really hard and that they should not be criticised on the back of a couple of results. Are we sure that's the case? Let's leave aside anything that Kildare or Donegal might be doing for the moment - are we genuinely sure that Offaly players are working harder than Clare, for example? Is it even likely?

Emmet McD is quoted in the same paper as saying:

"People thought we worked very hard last week but this was not the case. We didn't train Monday or Tuesday. We did a light session on Wednesday and weights on Friday so we should have been fresh. We had two heavy weeks prior to that all right but last week was not a heavy week"

So if he says this, why is the theme, or indeed the excuse, of tiredness revisited so often?

After last weekend's results, it's fair to say that until we prove otherwise, Offaly are now the worst intercounty football team on the island of Ireland. That's a serious fall from grace and while everybody gathering pitchforks and forming an angry mob helps no-one, you do have to wonder if this kind of condescension and treating lads like six year olds at the school sports day saying they "tried hard" helps no-one. Adult intercounty football is for grown ups and constantly sending out the message that the lads are working hard when there is no evidence to suggest it on the field of play means that either it's a blatant lie, and the paper shouldn't be peddling it, or else the work that's being done is seriously misguided.

Or am I out of kilter with this view?

[Bord na Mona man]

Everyone's definition of "working hard" will be very different.
I would be interested to hear what people think is best practice in recovering the historical conditioning deficits in the panel. As in addressing this issue over the Winter/Spring, yet trying to keep the players fresh enough to survive in matches.

Basically, can the two be combined easily?

[jimbob17]

In my unqualified opinion, the lads looked fierce tired the last day. I dont know what should be recommended, but i do know this. You cannot flog a racehorse and expect it to perform. If these stories of four hour sessions are true and training on a monday morning and monday evening after a league game are true, id have reservations about the backroom personnell. every one knows that the body is more likely to get injured when over worked, and that tiredness affects your ablity to perform. The Irish Rugby team are not expected to do this during a six nations campaign so how can the OY footballers manage this. Players need to be fresh for these games as they are very high tempo and training needs to be managed accordingly.

The problem is, and ive said it before, the Offaly county board will not support McDonnell with top quality people in relation to sport science who know what type of training should be done and when such training should be done for maximal effect. All intercounty teams now have trainers with backgrounds in sport science but do Offaly. Maybe they do, i dont know.....This in my opinion is the sole reason why OY GAA has fallen off the wagon in the last ten years. Other counties have moved on and we havent and until we do, this will not change. Paschal Kellaghan was on the radio waxing lyrical about Clare's trainer who is one of the top people in the country. Signs on on Sunday when they ran us off the pitch.

If one constantly does the wrong type of things at the wrong times, sure how are you supposed to improve???

[brownie]

after seeing mcdonnells quote about training last week, im worried.....shouldnt it be weights on wed night and light field session on friday. i thought most coachs knew it takes 48/72hrs for the body to recover from a weights session.pull back on the weights emmett...more football and match tactics in training please.the weights need to be done but wont win the matches.i wonder how many other county or club teams concentrate on weights 48hrs before an important game....its looks like just offaly does and it shows..

[red exile]

dont forget mc donnell is starting from scratch and i can only assume that the strength and conditioning programme is taking preference over match fitness and tactics at this time of year is in order to have the players fully prepared for the game against kildare,, to be honest im not too bothered about losing to clare and limerick as long as he gets us a good run in the championship and puts a system in place that will pay dividents over the next 12 /18 months

[private joker]

Offaly are years behind in regards of their strength and conditioning. This will take at least a season to get the foundation done and the rewards will be seen 2-3 years into the future. These things cannot be done over night and need to be done over a prolonged period of time. It all depends on what are the aims and objectives of the mgt are for the year. I hope this mgt get the time needed and required to see their plan through. Lastly and most important, when they do their stint and move on .all this work must be continued and built on over the next decade. I know that a lot of people are only about the here and now, that day is gone, counties now begin their strength at u-16 level with a basic knowledge being acquired at that age , brought on during minor into u-21 and finally senior. Dublin are the leaders of this. It really shows in their teams and this not done in a year, some of the players if not all are 6-7 years into their programs and will reap the rewards for this.

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Private Joker, fair play, some good points there.
The team preparation is a process over a couple of years to get us back competitive. McDonnell needs time, but the concern is that the type of football, and tactics employed is a major concern.
Some lads are giving out about the fact that weights were done on Friday night, I guarantee you, there were plenty of county teams doing weights on Saturday. What do any of us understand about this type of preparation, and many of us are on here saying we are doing too much weights.
All last year we were giving out because there are no weights programs being carried out????

The big issue is the joined up thinking between the clubs management and the county mangement, re the type of preparation.

[Square Cab]

LS I think Jimbo has answered your question. The reason there’s no evidence of the hard work on the field of play is because the players in my (again unqualified) opinion are doing too much. I have played and trained at a reasonably high level so I would like to think I have an idea of what I am talking about. In any given week we would have trained three times in the field and twice in the gym. By the end of the week your body was shattered. If the reports are true and the lads are training as hard as they are, it’s no wonder they looked tired on Sunday. I remember listening to an interview with one of the McNulty’s from Armagh and he stated one of his biggest regrets during his career was over training. Basically he didn’t give his body a chance to recover thus it had a negative effect on his overall performance. However, like I stated in an earlier post, we can talk all we want about training, over training, weights, nutrition and sports science, the simple fact of the matter is that we don’t have the calibre of player to be competitive at inter county level at this present moment in time. Is bench pressing 100kg going to help a guy kick the ball over the bar from 20yrds out or prevent a guy from kicking a free to an opponent twice?? I really don’t think so. Jamie Clarke is one of the best forwards in the country at the moment and he certainly doesn’t look like a gym junkie. As Jimbo said, “If one constantly does the wrong type of things at the wrong times, how are you supposed to improve???”
PS – if I hear one more word about lads that aren’t on the panel I’m going to get sick! Please please please let’s not turn these guys into the new FW’s!

[Ahlethimoutwithit]

Fair enough SC! Thats the discussion board finished wth!

Players are overtrained- matter of opinion/hard to tell whether is a crisis of confidence
Players making elementary mistakes, high intensity training games will help this, ie its not Go Games in that the player fouled must take the free, GG could throw the ball to someone else and let them take the free for example? He wont make them mistakes again surely anyway?
Tactics and game plan need to be reviewed by mgt and quickly!
Subbing lads early, How can you bring off P Cunningham, and leave Alan Mc on for almost the full game, (Alan Mc must have more game time bar injury than anyone under new mgt)? Give lads a chance, but they must show some signs of wanting to repay loyalty.

We cant surely accept that we have not got the footballers to play at a higher level than this?

Thats it so?