Offaly vs Cork - SHC Qualifier Rnd 2 07/07/2012

[Lone Shark]

It says a lot about the mentality of the GAA and indeed the country as a whole that all too often, commitment to a cause is measured in terms of pints foregone. I wasn't witness to our county hurlers misbehaving and neither am I able to verify their whereabouts all the time, so I'm not going to get drawn into the whole debate about who did or didn't drink what. What I will say is that the science behind reaching your physical peak has become hugely advanced in recent years and there's a hell of a lot more to it than just drinking. Different players have different tolerances, different metabolisms, and different reactions to different substances. The idea that a player's attitude can be measured in his ability to resist a sup is nonsense.

I'm not saying that's what Pot Noodle was driving at, but I will say this. Beating Wexford was a big deal. We hadn't done it in twelve years, and we mightn't beat another genuine hurling county for another twelve. It needed to be done, and it was done, and I've no problem with celebrating it, providing it was done in a manner that didn't affect the players training the following Tuesday/Monday/whenever.

These lads trained all year with that championship win in mind - huge sacrifices were asked of them in terms of diet, private life, time, and then when they achieve the goal they strived for all year, they're supposed to put it behind them and begin straight away preparing for the next goal? How would that motivate anyone? I'd have been the first to say to lads to go out, to do what ye want within reason, and that we'll train on Monday night hard to get it out of the systems. Then, when lads are still on a high after their achievement, you can build them up to take on Galway.

I'm all for players doing their best to get their bodies to peak condition, but the GAA is largely neanderthal in this regard. A quick read of the most recent post at http://www.sportsscientists.com/ would give you some clue as to what the real athletes are measuring and doing, and it's amazing both what is allowed and what isn't. Many Olympic standard sprinters would tell you that they've been told to try and get their body fat percentage down to the low single digits, which requires masses of proteins, specific complex carbs only and essentially no saturated fat. Vodka has no calories - and so plenty of the top class sprinters will happily go out for a night on the tear drinking neat vodka if their schedule allows, even in mid season. It's all about what's necessary and what isn't.

In the GAA lads will sit at home and happily make a curry using a jar of sauce from Tesco, thinking they're doing the right thing because they're not having any beer with it. It's not their fault, because that's what they're told to do.

I've no idea what the hurlers were and weren't at, but I've seen and heard enough this year to believe that they did everything that was required and just fell a little short - and if they had a few drinks along the way that helped make it all worthwhile, I very much doubt that had anything to do with what happened in Tullamore, Portlaoise or Cork.

[llkj]

LS, do know if you would be able to get odds on who would win in a straight drink-off between the football and hurling squads?

I know that this is the type of thing that bookies would generally avoid, because it is hard to measure, but maybe we could go with the same rules that they used in the movie Beer Fest. Then we could finally put this age old argument to bed and move on with our lives.

[Lone Shark]

LS, do know if you would be able to get odds on who would win in a straight drink-off between the football and hurling squads?

I know that this is the type of thing that bookies would generally avoid, because it is hard to measure, but maybe we could go with the same rules that they used in the movie Beer Fest. Then we could finally put this age old argument to bed and move on with our lives.

Nobody ever thinks of the dual players any more. These lads would be killed!

[Kevin]

LS, do know if you would be able to get odds on who would win in a straight drink-off between the football and hurling squads?

I know that this is the type of thing that bookies would generally avoid, because it is hard to measure, but maybe we could go with the same rules that they used in the movie Beer Fest. Then we could finally put this age old argument to bed and move on with our lives.

Nobody ever thinks of the dual players any more. These lads would be killed!

It was their decision to play both codes, such are the hazards!

[Pot Noodle]

I'm not suggesting that abstaining from alcohol would have seen Offaly safely through to the All-Ireland semi-final at this stage of the year but I believe the social habits hint at a wider malaise which undermined their chances of achieving this year, based on soundings I have heard on good authority. This reflects poorly on management and players and relates to a range of issues, of which social habits is just one.
For what it's worth, I think that drinking bans are ludicrous and counter-productive and players should be allowed the opportunity to unwind, but there should be a structure placed on it all the same and if there was one in place this year then it certainly wasn't adhered to by all.
I don't agree that beating Wexford was a big deal. Sure, the players should be allowed to let their hair down afterwards but stretching it to a third day is excessive and smacks of celebrating mediocrity. Assuming that training resumed on the Tuesday after the Wexford game, I'd be amazed if the players who had been out up to the night before were on top of the ground that particular evening.
And if beating Wexford was the sole motivation for making various sacrifices over the course of the year (and I don't doubt that they do make a great many sacrifices) then I'd suggest they shouldn't be there in the first place.
If only they had come up just a little short. The league campaign was very disappointing and promotion, or at least a shot at it, was squandered; the performance against Wexford was generally poor and we were lucky to win; the Galway game was shambolic (I don't care what they did to Kilkenny); decent effort against Cork but ultimately well beaten (seven points is seven points) and glorious failures have been far too many over the past few years.
Ultimately the Cork game was the biggest of the year and I don't know how anyone could endorse a number of players going on a session against management's wishes (I hope) the weekend before it, regardless of whether it had a physical toll or not.
I felt this issue needed to be highlighted as I don't believe we gave ourselves the very best chance of being successful this year and a county of our size surely should do that much at the very least.
I'm not a regular poster on this site and haven't the slightest interest in getting involved in tit-for-tat exchanges on this; I just felt it was something that needed to be highlighted and this is my final word on the matter.

[Plain of the Herbs]

A drunk in a pub told you?

. .. based on soundings I have heard on good authority . . .

[Plain of the Herbs]

Am I getting this? The short term harm of drinking is the slowing down of reaction time, the medium term effects (ie, overnight) is the dehydration, and the longer term effect is the fat content?

I'm all for players doing their best to get their bodies to peak condition, but the GAA is largely neanderthal in this regard. A quick read of the most recent post at http://www.sportsscientists.com/ would give you some clue as to what the real athletes are measuring and doing, and it's amazing both what is allowed and what isn't. Many Olympic standard sprinters would tell you that they've been told to try and get their body fat percentage down to the low single digits, which requires masses of proteins, specific complex carbs only and essentially no saturated fat. Vodka has no calories - and so plenty of the top class sprinters will happily go out for a night on the tear drinking neat vodka if their schedule allows, even in mid season. It's all about what's necessary and what isn't.

[Lone Shark]

Am I getting this? The short term harm of drinking is the slowing down of reaction time, the medium term effects (ie, overnight) is the dehydration, and the longer term effect is the fat content?

Obviously there is the issue of organs absorbing proteins that would otherwise have been used elsewhere, but unless you're looking to go toe to toe with Shane MacGowan, that's the general gist they work off. The dehydration tends not to be that much of an issue simply because these guys would be working with high levels of hydration anyway, and when you do that, the body doesn't store water - it trusts you to give it what it needs, when you need it. Think of it like a Celtic Tiger cub who never knew the pain of too much month left at the end of the money. It doesn't keep water in storage just in case the flow runs dry, like most people's system would. Thus unlike the rest of us, who have to force down pints of water after overdoing the alcohol, the primed athlete will crave water instead and will have no problem addressing the dehydration that way.


Just to move back to Pot Noodle's points, my apologies if it seemed like an out and out disagreement, and it's not that I would approve of unholy binge sessions going on over a few days. I'm always skeptical of reports of players having sessions worthy of Caligulan times, simply because all too often, two lads at a bar having four pints turns into fourteen pints by the time the rumour mill gets going. Maybe the players did overdo it, maybe they didn't. My point is that different bodies handle things differently, and I don't like a blanket "players shouldn't drink between April and September" approach because it fails to take into account different lifestyles and metabolisms. But mainly, I just don't like to roundly condemn on the back of rumours, because in a lot of cases, there's a lot of exaggeration built into the story. That may or may not have been the case here, but generally, it's true.

Also, I wasn't trying to imply that the sole goal for the year was to beat Wexford - merely that while this was a poor Wexford team, we needed to beat them and the win was significant. The players needed to feel good about that result, and after a game in which I walked out thinking that Wexford ran out of time rather than Offaly beat them, maybe a feeling of celebration was called for. Of course still going at it by the Monday is nonsense - as indeed it would be if supporters were doing it, or anybody. People drinking for two days straight have a real problem, regardless of their participation in high level sport.