Offaly vs Roscommon NFL Div 3 12th February 2012

[gearbag]

But sure the county needs a high profile manager, who is gerry cooney anyway? how cud u expect the players to have any interest, imagine you playing with offaly and been told that mick o dwyer is training the county team this year it would bring huge interest to the county every half decent player in the county would want a trial because players would believe that they could win a leinster title with a high profile manager thats the problem players dont have the belief they can beat kildare never mind win a title also u would have more people goin to support offaly footballers roscommon out numbered offaly supporters yesterday its shocking to see bottom line get a high profile manager and the players would give him all they had to offer tell you one thing you wud still have karl slattery,renolds,and deehan dont care what you say these are good young players.

[bracknaghboy]

Its a good job Offaly didn't get promoted to Division 2 for this year! Remember how close it was last year. Westmeath are getting their arses spanked up there now. In fact Kildare are 2 defeats from 2 so far.
And so Offaly travel to Antrim in 3 weeks time to play under lights on a saturday night. The words Offaly, Saturday and lights do not get on very well together. You'd want some stomach to head up and pay into to watch that

[Lone Shark]

But sure the county needs a high profile manager, who is gerry cooney anyway? how cud u expect the players to have any interest, imagine you playing with offaly and been told that mick o dwyer is training the county team this year it would bring huge interest to the county every half decent player in the county would want a trial because players would believe that they could win a leinster title with a high profile manager thats the problem players dont have the belief they can beat kildare never mind win a title also u would have more people goin to support offaly footballers roscommon out numbered offaly supporters yesterday its shocking to see bottom line get a high profile manager and the players would give him all they had to offer tell you one thing you wud still have karl slattery,renolds,and deehan dont care what you say these are good young players.

Where in God's name would we get the €100k needed to get a high profile manager in, not to mention all the hangers-on that a lot of these guys bring in? The county already struggles to pay the bills and we're doing a lot better than most counties our size when it comes to sponsorship. Local businesses don't have it, so unless you plan on financing it yourself, then it's a non-runner - and that's before you ask the question of whether or not it's the right way to go. If you go on to the Ladbrokes website there and have a look at the betting for the All Ireland, ten counties are 33/1 or shorter. Nine of those ten have a home grown manager who has never managed another county.

Its a good job Offaly didn't get promoted to Division 2 for this year! Remember how close it was last year. Westmeath are getting their arses spanked up there now. In fact Kildare are 2 defeats from 2 so far.

The difference is that Westmeath are odds on to play in division 3 next year, with a very slight chance of playing in division two. We're odds on to be playing in division 4 next year, with maybe a 25% chance of staying in division 3. I'd prefer their situation.

Ive been holding back but Im gonna let my opinion out there. They are not the best 15 footballers in the county. There was not one player out of Senior club football starting yesterday. I say were the only county in Ireland that pick our county team from Senior clubs. Why cant the management look at players in Intermediate and Junior. The past 5/ years there have been great minors from inter/junior level but once they get to senior there more or less cast aside or looked on with a disability.

That's nonsense. For a start, Ken Casey, Ger Treacy and Daniel Currams were all in the match day squad and two of them started last week. Secondly, all the players that are being talked about on this thread as not being there - McManus, Slattery, Deehan, Brady, Reynolds, Alan McNamee have all been mentioned - are all senior club players as well. Thirdly, players from intermediate and junior clubs have got plenty of chances in the last few years, I'd say most clubs have had someone in at some stage and I can't remember any player standing out at intermediate or club level who hasn't got a call up at some time in the last three or four years. Fourthly, this is the same intermediate championship that was won by Rhode's second string last year, yes? It's a bit hard to argue against players like Brian Hanamy, who's a 20 year old knocking on the door of the senior team in Kilmacud, when the Intermediate championship in Offaly is won by a team full of players who can't get on their own club's first team.

Im actually embarrased to say im from Offaly at this stage.

Then perhaps you're not the best man to come up with solutions if that's how you feel. I've never felt anything but hugely proud and fortunate to be a native of Ferbane and Offaly and if we saw our players showing that kind of defeatist attitude, we'd never forgive them.

[llkj]

Then perhaps you're not the best man to come up with solutions if that's how you feel. I've never felt anything but hugely proud and fortunate to be a native of Ferbane and Offaly and if we saw our players showing that kind of defeatist attitude, we'd never forgive them.

Eh, were you at the Offaly Down game a few years ago, when Offaly completely rolled over and let Down tickle their belly for the entire game? That was definitely a team that showed a collective defeatist attitude that day. I was extremely disappointed leaving OCP that day with the complete lack of effort, whatever about the inability of the players on display. So, it is not just supporters that have showed such an attitude in the past. To say that we'd never forgive the players is a bit harsh - or no one would have showed up for their opening match the following year.

[substandard]

After watching the match, it's easy to see where a lot of the frustration is coming from. For a lot of the game, won a good deal of breaking ball around the middle of the field, but when within 30-45 metres of the goal a succession of passes over and back across the field and eventually backwards before a physically bigger Roscommon player could knock someone off the ball, and the whole process would have to start again. Very slow to react to the threat of Devanney, but maybe there weren't many more options to handle him. Roscommon, though fairly limited themselves, still looked to be playing within themselves, seemed to have a fairly straightforward defensive screen set up (players taking up covering postions while flagging other lads where to go to help closing down). Bar Anton running at speed, or Bernard Allen given ball clipped into space, Ros seemed fairly comfortable. The difference in physique was severe; and Roscommon would be several notches below the northern teams, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Kildare. The county board is reaping now the rewards of a negligence towards strength and conditioning from the development squads through to the minors over the past 8-10 years, or however long other counties have had these structures in place. I feel sorry for the players from the point of view that, no pun intended, it's not a level playing field if they've missed out on the headstart that other counties have. Fair enough if there are players there who don't put in the effort or show the requisite committment or are in it for the sake of being small-town heroes, but I'd imagine the majority are trying their best. Surely the difference in physical build and power between Offaly and say, Kildare, isn't just down to genetics?!! When confidence is down and there's a negative vibe about the team, it has to be very difficult to try and stem the tide. It isn't all that long ago that Roscommon was in a complete shambles, but with work from the bottom up, they've managed to plot a steady upwards curve the last few years, and had consistently strong juvenile and minor teams. Offaly has had some decent minor teams the last few years, and I've seen a few of them playing. Would I be far wrong in saying that ability-wise, they were as good as many top teams but lost out to more physical teams?

[Lone Shark]

Then perhaps you're not the best man to come up with solutions if that's how you feel. I've never felt anything but hugely proud and fortunate to be a native of Ferbane and Offaly and if we saw our players showing that kind of defeatist attitude, we'd never forgive them.

Eh, were you at the Offaly Down game a few years ago, when Offaly completely rolled over and let Down tickle their belly for the entire game? That was definitely a team that showed a collective defeatist attitude that day. I was extremely disappointed leaving OCP that day with the complete lack of effort, whatever about the inability of the players on display. So, it is not just supporters that have showed such an attitude in the past. To say that we'd never forgive the players is a bit harsh - or no one would have showed up for their opening match the following year.

Two sides to that - you can be disappointed by certain aspects of a teams performance without going so far as to say you're ashamed to admit you're from Offaly, which is the way it was phrased in the original post.

I remember that day well, it was horrendous viewing - though there were a few individuals who I thought had a bad day, a few more who actually came off quite well - Seán Ryan's contribution off the bench made a mockery of how little he had been used all year when he was in the form of his life - and yes, there were a few who just phoned it in. And yeah, I'll always remember them for it.

[Lone Shark]

After watching the match, it's easy to see where a lot of the frustration is coming from. For a lot of the game, won a good deal of breaking ball around the middle of the field, but when within 30-45 metres of the goal a succession of passes over and back across the field and eventually backwards before a physically bigger Roscommon player could knock someone off the ball, and the whole process would have to start again. Very slow to react to the threat of Devanney, but maybe there weren't many more options to handle him. Roscommon, though fairly limited themselves, still looked to be playing within themselves, seemed to have a fairly straightforward defensive screen set up (players taking up covering postions while flagging other lads where to go to help closing down). Bar Anton running at speed, or Bernard Allen given ball clipped into space, Ros seemed fairly comfortable. The difference in physique was severe; and Roscommon would be several notches below the northern teams, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Kildare. The county board is reaping now the rewards of a negligence towards strength and conditioning from the development squads through to the minors over the past 8-10 years, or however long other counties have had these structures in place. I feel sorry for the players from the point of view that, no pun intended, it's not a level playing field if they've missed out on the headstart that other counties have. Fair enough if there are players there who don't put in the effort or show the requisite committment or are in it for the sake of being small-town heroes, but I'd imagine the majority are trying their best. Surely the difference in physical build and power between Offaly and say, Kildare, isn't just down to genetics?!! When confidence is down and there's a negative vibe about the team, it has to be very difficult to try and stem the tide. It isn't all that long ago that Roscommon was in a complete shambles, but with work from the bottom up, they've managed to plot a steady upwards curve the last few years, and had consistently strong juvenile and minor teams. Offaly has had some decent minor teams the last few years, and I've seen a few of them playing. Would I be far wrong in saying that ability-wise, they were as good as many top teams but lost out to more physical teams?

I think the physicality element myself is overplayed at this level. It will tell a tale against Kildare in the championship, of that I've no doubt. However I wouldn't put the display against Roscommon down to that. John Moloney is not a big guy, but in fairness to him, while he made a few mistakes with his distribution, he got in good tackles and set lads back. Now I know he's played a lot of rugby and God knows he's probably done a lot of work by himself or with NUIG, but he's proof that a player who wants to work at their game and develop the strength required can do it by themselves. Similarly I would cite somebody like Aidan Keenaghan, who was sorely missed out there as well as he would be strong enough to hold his own but he'd also be inclined to put some pace and direction on the attacks. He's also a natural centre forward and knows how to play the role. Daniel Currams isn't, and we paid the price for that in Longford. Neither is Willie Mulhall, who can take scores on his day but for me is a corner forward or nothing.

My overall impression of the game itself is that there was a lack of direction. Certain players had bad days, but I would say that a little bit better direction from the sideline could have done a lot. I refer to things like:

(1) Picking Alan Mulhall to play as a target man full forward, and I counted one ball in on top of him all day. I actually feel bad for Alan because the experiment will end up being discontinued and people will say "Mulhall at full forward didn't work" when in actual fact it wasn't given a chance to work.
(2) Way too late with substitutions. Whatever about a player like Niall McNamee who we know is top class, there isn't a lot to call between a lot of the footballers on this panel. The obvious example was giving Graham Guilfoyle the full match, who to me is in very poor form for some time now, and bringing on Ger Treacy for around four seconds. Now I don't know if Treacy is good enough or not for this level, but Guilfoyle was killing us out there by slowing up the ball forward and allowing Roscommon to funnel men back.
(3) I've said it before, but the midfield thing makes no sense to me. Niall Smith seems to field two or three balls and do nothing else, while Hanamy worked hard but his inability to tackle is a huge problem. I actually don't think he's that slow - a couple of times now he's surprised me with a reasonable burst over five yards - but he doesn't seem to be adding a lot to general play and while I think he's actually been better than Smith, we do need more turnovers and tackling from that sector.

At this stage I'm all but resigned to relegation - unless Niall Mc comes back quick and is in the form of our lives, I think that was our best chance of a win by a long measure. However a little bit of me realises that to a certain degree, some sort of transition needs to take place. My concern is that there has been a negativity pervading Offaly senior football for a long time now and it could be at the stage where it's just too toxic, and all we're doing is contaminating some of the next generation. The Under-21 vs Meath will tell a lot on Wednesday week, but there still should be a lot of decent young footballers in the county - not least Allen and Moloney, both of whom I felt played well on Sunday.

[kingscounty]

where is the under 21 game against meath being played? i heard it was gracefield im not 100% sure tho

[townman]

its in gracefield

[Muck Savage]

What is the expectation here? Cooney is about 6 weeks into his job with a young panel and the majority of calls here are for the panel to get cut or Cooney to get cut. WTF??? Kildare, Longford and Roscommon have been with their managers for a number of years so have been built up physically over this time and are familiar to each other and the style of play they play. Go back and look at Mcgeeneys record with Kildare the first year or so, would you have chopped him?
Three months ago all the calls were to give younger lads a go, try new ideas etc. You don't just bump into a winning method, lots of hard work is needed and many months of it before winners are made. Any one of the players coming on here to read this sort of trash would most likely walk away form the team. It's easy sit behind a computer screen and write trash about lads not giving an effort when most don't know what it is to give an effort. Any person coming on here saying they are ashamed to say their form Offaly never knew what it was like to put in the effort these lads put in.

This talk about getting a big high profile manager is all crap. Tommy Lyons was not a high profile manager when he took over Offaly, you can say he won a AI club title, but very few knew who he was when he came in. He didn't come in and waive a magic wand and start winning straight away, there was three months of hard training with a mature team before anything happened.

The expectation here that the team would get promoted or chalange for promotion is crazy, new manager started late, no training, experienced players retired, best player out of action and no settled team was always going to mean Div 4 next year. Trying out new players, new tactics and trying to gel together a team is what this league run will be about.

Ashamed to be from Offaly....... what sort of S#*t is that?

[Slugger]

Obviously there's a danger that constant criticism will knock the confidence of the players especially the younger lads who are just starting out at this level. There were a few positives about Sunday's match. (Anton's fitness level, John Moloney's performance, Bernard Allen continues to improve...).

The big worry for me can be fixed.

Fitness levels of some players are not inter-county standard. Anyone who was there on Sunday could clearly see some of our lads physically unable to track their opponent. This isn't lack of strength or speed, this is basic aerobic conditioning. Ciaron McManus had his critics but was always able to track his player because he prepared himself properly. Is it the training, the diet, not enough pre-season training, carrying injuries etc. ??? Maybe different reasons for each player. Whatever it is, it's fixable. I'm not talking about all the players here and I won't name names but if it's down to an individual's lack of proper preparation then that's dissappointing.

2nd half v Longford: 2 scores
2nd half v Roscommon: 2 scores.

These stats tell their own story.

[azoffaly]

What is the expectation here? Cooney is about 6 weeks into his job with a young panel and the majority of calls here are for the panel to get cut or Cooney to get cut. WTF??? Kildare, Longford and Roscommon have been with their managers for a number of years so have been built up physically over this time and are familiar to each other and the style of play they play. Go back and look at Mcgeeneys record with Kildare the first year or so, would you have chopped him?
Three months ago all the calls were to give younger lads a go, try new ideas etc. You don't just bump into a winning method, lots of hard work is needed and many months of it before winners are made. Any one of the players coming on here to read this sort of trash would most likely walk away form the team. It's easy sit behind a computer screen and write trash about lads not giving an effort when most don't know what it is to give an effort. Any person coming on here saying they are ashamed to say their form Offaly never knew what it was like to put in the effort these lads put in.

This talk about getting a big high profile manager is all crap. Tommy Lyons was not a high profile manager when he took over Offaly, you can say he won a AI club title, but very few knew who he was when he came in. He didn't come in and waive a magic wand and start winning straight away, there was three months of hard training with a mature team before anything happened.

The expectation here that the team would get promoted or chalange for promotion is crazy, new manager started late, no training, experienced players retired, best player out of action and no settled team was always going to mean Div 4 next year. Trying out new players, new tactics and trying to gel together a team is what this league run will be about.

Ashamed to be from Offaly....... what sort of S#*t is that?

Well said. What worries me is if there is rumblings of unhappiness already. That's just shite. But no matter what happens, always be proud to be from Offaly. Always.

[durra1]

Most sensible post in a long time from MS.

I know f&*k all about the football scene but what we all know is many county sides at mid to lower tier level have been training away in stable, supportive and professional training environments for years.

Take the last three games:-

• Kildare - upwards of four nights a week training during the winter ban, in the likes of the K Club. McGeeney there what .. 3 years?

• Longford : Glen Ryan as far as I know is in his fourth year of management with Longford. Didn’t they have some good underage teams of late?

• Roscommon won a AI Minor in the late naughties, have quality all around the park and have a continuity of playing personnel and people are going septic because they beat us by a few points.

How the f&*k are an experimental OY side who hadn’t even known their manager was in November expected to compete with that kind of physical preparation and continuity of personnel?

I can understand the old adage of ‘give a dog a bad name’ enduing but as far as I can see, and maybe I’m wrong, but the apathetical troublemakers of recent years have been ousted and / or retired from the scene.

I’ve been bleating on about drivel bring tolerated on internet forms for years.

For what it’s worth , my tu’pence worth is not for putting the blame on Cooney, Stewart or any of the players …the blame lies at the door of the county board.

[gearbag]

But sure the county needs a high profile manager, who is gerry cooney anyway? how cud u expect the players to have any interest, imagine you playing with offaly and been told that mick o dwyer is training the county team this year it would bring huge interest to the county every half decent player in the county would want a trial because players would believe that they could win a leinster title with a high profile manager thats the problem players dont have the belief they can beat kildare never mind win a title also u would have more people goin to support offaly footballers roscommon out numbered offaly supporters yesterday its shocking to see bottom line get a high profile manager and the players would give him all they had to offer tell you one thing you wud still have karl slattery,renolds,and deehan dont care what you say these are good young players.

Where in God's name would we get the €100k needed to get a high profile manager in, not to mention all the hangers-on that a lot of these guys bring in? The county already struggles to pay the bills and we're doing a lot better than most counties our size when it comes to sponsorship. Local businesses don't have it, so unless you plan on financing it yourself, then it's a non-runner - and that's before you ask the question of whether or not it's the right way to go. If you go on to the Ladbrokes website there and have a look at the betting for the All Ireland, ten counties are 33/1 or shorter. Nine of those ten have a home grown manager who has never managed another county. that indeed lone shark the county struggles and so does every club in the county too when they are forced to sell 100 euro tickets every year and if there quota is not reached then the clubs have to pay for the tickets that they couldnt sell out of there own pocket which was ment to be a 10 year term has gone to another 10 year so your right there the county and clubs within are struggling.

Its a good job Offaly didn't get promoted to Division 2 for this year! Remember how close it was last year. Westmeath are getting their arses spanked up there now. In fact Kildare are 2 defeats from 2 so far.

The difference is that Westmeath are odds on to play in division 3 next year, with a very slight chance of playing in division two. We're odds on to be playing in division 4 next year, with maybe a 25% chance of staying in division 3. I'd prefer their situation.

Ive been holding back but Im gonna let my opinion out there. They are not the best 15 footballers in the county. There was not one player out of Senior club football starting yesterday. I say were the only county in Ireland that pick our county team from Senior clubs. Why cant the management look at players in Intermediate and Junior. The past 5/ years there have been great minors from inter/junior level but once they get to senior there more or less cast aside or looked on with a disability.

That's nonsense. For a start, Ken Casey, Ger Treacy and Daniel Currams were all in the match day squad and two of them started last week. Secondly, all the players that are being talked about on this thread as not being there - McManus, Slattery, Deehan, Brady, Reynolds, Alan McNamee have all been mentioned - are all senior club players as well. Thirdly, players from intermediate and junior clubs have got plenty of chances in the last few years, I'd say most clubs have had someone in at some stage and I can't remember any player standing out at intermediate or club level who hasn't got a call up at some time in the last three or four years. Fourthly, this is the same intermediate championship that was won by Rhode's second string last year, yes? It's a bit hard to argue against players like Brian Hanamy, who's a 20 year old knocking on the door of the senior team in Kilmacud, when the Intermediate championship in Offaly is won by a team full of players who can't get on their own club's first team.

Im actually embarrased to say im from Offaly at this stage.

Then perhaps you're not the best man to come up with solutions if that's how you feel. I've never felt anything but hugely proud and fortunate to be a native of Ferbane and Offaly and if we saw our players showing that kind of defeatist attitude, we'd never forgive them.

[offalyboy]

Lads, all this talk about the lack of physical conditioning and the offaly footballers at this time of the year because they did not have a manager until late November or because they havent shown what to do over the last number of years - well quite frankly this type of talk is complete nonsense - any sportsperson who is serious about preparation and getting into the physical condition required to START training at intercounty level should be putting in the work during the off season - I'm sure most people on this site have heard the saying that "you need to be fit enough to start training" - intercounty training is about moving players from standard club level fitness/strength to what would be considered elite i.e. body fat levels, Vo2 max etc - any intercounty player who dusts off the football boots and runners he first week of January with the notion of going playing intercounty, well the truth being told he is already about 4 months too late!!

Lets be realistic here - type "strength training for sports" or something similar into the old google machine and the thousands of websites and links which are available - as far as Im aware a player doesnt need a manager, a trainer or the county board to do this for them - what they do need is hunger, desire and the interest to be the best that they could possibly be!!

Also, who are the leaders within this offaly team - why didnt somebody step up to plate and organise some sessions amoung the players until the manager issue was resolved - could one of the seniors players not contacted Joe Quinn and picked his brains for half an hour and what they should be at, should be eating etc !! Cast the memory back a few years when there was trouble in Cork hurling camp and the likes of Sean Og, Brian Corcoran, Diarmuid Sullivan etc were organising training sessions for the players in groups of 5 to 10 to make sure that when the issues were sorted that they would be ready!!

Everybody seems to refer to Kildare, DUbln, Cork as the template for modern day physical preparation but just to dispel the myth that Kildare, Dublin, Cork etc are doing some scientific high tech training that can only be devised by a strength and conditioning coach - well thats nonsense aswell - squat, bench and deadlift and combined with plyometric pushups, box jumps etc - all easily researched on the net is about the size of it and if you are an intercounty footballer not doing these basic exercises at this stage well then forget about it because you obvously couldnt care less!!