uibhfaillian wrote:I'll be voting for Michael D Higgins tomorrow myself. I'm not going to tell people who to vote for, but I urge voters of all hues to steer away from Cowens bagman - the z-list celebrity FFer Sean Gallagher.
The Presidency is not a pivotal role in the large scheme of things, however it would be a backward step to elect Gallagher as President. Martin McGuinness may well have done the country some service when he exposed the bagman on RTE on Monday night. Vote for who you like, steer away from the bagman is all I'll say.
I think Michael D will win tomorrow, however if anyone is going to challenge him it will be Sean Gallagher.
I would like to point out a few things
1. Regarding the cheque for €80k, this is a total non issue. It is simply this that the person writing the cheque wrote it to the wrong business name. It is normal practice to either try and get the person to rewrite it or lodge it to the incorrect account and then write a cheque from one account to the other. I think anyone with business experience would have to admit that this is quite a regular occurence especially for smaller businesses.
2. The collecting or not collecting the cheque for €5k is the real issue. Here you have a businessman with a coloured past who quite clearly has some serious issue with Sean Gallagher and after some encouragement from Sein Fein who thought they had a clear run at the republican vote he has muddied the waters.
Personally I couldnt care whether he collected the cheques or not, Every political party does this, I bet if you looked far enough into the past of michael d higgins, martin mcguinness and gay mitchell they will have done the same. But this is a big issue for some people and it will be interesting to see if it is enough to turn off enough of his support to let Michael D catch up.
The election campaign so far has been terrible, full of gutter journalism and little else. We have seen Dana, Mary Davis, David Norris, Martin McGuinness, Gay Mitchell & now Sean Gallagher cut to shreds by a media baying for blood while the public are stuck in the middle trying to decide between a convicted terrorist, a quango queen, and a bagman! The only one that came out unscathed was Michael D and thats why he will win tomorrow
I think the meaningful election tomorrow is between Higgins, Gallagher and just maybe, Martin McGuinness. The only other issue is whether or not David Norris gets his expenses back. I wouldn't want Norris as President myself, but I'm unsure how I feel about whether or not he crosses that threshold. I will say however that the highest preference you give to one of those three is your meaningful number one. My own, utterly personal view on those three is that:
- McGuinness - I have an odd hunch here that SF ran him, not because they thought he'd win, but because he was the only one who could realistically increase the party vote from the last general election. I'd say they expected him to poll around 17 or 18%, maybe beat a FF candidate if one ran, and keep the positive momentum going for the party. After all, he's a hugely significant figure for them - surely his role in Stormont is much more important than a largely ceremonial one down south? Now all of a sudden he's in with a small, but very real chance of winning. I'm not sure how they'll feel about that at SF headquarters. He will struggle for transfers, but he came across very well on Prime Time, both in terms of the Gallagher issue and in dealing with that ridiculous woman trying to argue that Derry was in another country. It may be politically, and most southerners respect the unionist majority and the northern right of self-determination, but there's no way I would call someone from Coleraine a foreigner and I don't think I'm in the minority there. The old adage that he who wields the knife won't wear the crown may be apt, but I don't think he's the no-hoper that some people expect. Don't forget that a lot of people tell pollsters one thing and vote differently. Martin McGuinness and Dana will be the two candidates who I think will exceed their pre-election poll numbers.
- Gallagher - a lot of the things he did are not necessarily enough in themselves, but I do think there's too much stuff going on here for him to be completely above board. He is great at doing the deflective arguing - you ask a question about one thing, and he twists the question and ends up defending an accusation that was never even made. Note this in particular when it comes to the taking a loan for 70% of the company's assets. He did this, it was illegal, there is no defence for it. So when confronted, he goes on about the money that the company paid him in rent instead, as if that was what he was accused of. Dodgy too, but not illegal. His "settlement" with the Louth county enterprise board may be legal, but it's certainly not ethical. The patent income thing stinks, the massive Enterprise Ireland grant, all these things just aren't presidential, and above all, we have the constant lies. Of course all parties organise fundraisers. So say you had a part in it, say people made donations, and that you handled a few cheques and passed them on. Nothing to see here. Don't tie yourself up in knots lying about it. Same as his involvement with FF in the first place - just come out and say it, and say that you feel the party no longer represents your views, so you left. FF went from 40% to under 20% - a lot of people share that view. Don't try and pretend you were a nobody when you were at the heart of the campaign for about four different candidates and organising central HQ fundraisers. The whole thing is just distasteful and to be honest, I don't mind saying I too will be voting preferences 1-5 and leaving Gallagher and one of the other smaller candidates off entirely. Even if all this was above board, I don't think he understands what a President is. All this nonsense about creating jobs - if that's what you want to do, he should be running in the Dublin West by-election - not for President.
-Michael D - I do think he sat back waiting for the job to fall into his lap, and I do think that the media has given him a ridiculously soft ride. He's out of touch with a lot of people in this country, not uncommonly for champagne socialists who've always had comfortable state jobs, but all that said, I think only he and Gay Mitchell fully understand the role they are looking for, and out of those two, I think Michael D is the only one who I could trust to impartially protect the constitution and the aims that are contained therein. I don't think he'd try to steer the ship in any particular direction, and if there was a crisis, I would trust him. I think a seven year term would be enough and I'd be mildly concerned about his relationship with the US after some pretty partisan views on the middle east, but all in all he's probably the safest man for the job.
All that said, sadly I don't yet rule out that Gallagher will get over the line. I've always said it - Irish people pretend they want an honest, fair system, but they don't. They want an utterly corrupt system, as long as they themselves are part of the inner circle. Bord na Móna man touched on it before - a lot of people don't really realise that the Celtic Tiger was a ridiculous anomaly, a time that we will never see again. There are plenty out there who think that now is the anomaly, and we just need to hang in there until it will be 2006 all over again. Gallagher represents all that, and he also gives people who deep down feel like they shouldn't be voting FF the excuse to do what their heart tells them to do, because of that ridiculous Irish trait which means we follow political parties like we do football teams - till death. I pray he doesn't win, but I'm genuinely afraid. It will speak volumes about the fundamental flaws in our character if he does get over the line.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
The part of the end is a truly brilliant summary by LS of the mind-set of those who thought about voting Gallagher.
The intervention by Mc Guinness and Hugh Morgan was a masterstroke by them and a reality check to potential SG voters.
The mind-set of the SG voter is akin to Tom Hanks character in Castaway or the Pacific Islanders who waited on the runways for the US freight planes post-WW2 that never came ..
Personally, I say good riddance to that era. Common decency has retuned , volunteerism is back in vogue and there is far less conspicuous greed about the place.
The whole world is going through a economic re-alignment and , hopefully, moving away from unchecked free market capitalism.
Hard hitting stuff on RTE 1 last night on the documentary on the last days of the Cowen Government. In one sense you would feel for Cowen on a human level but some of the decisions that he made were absolutely mindless and some of the people he aligned himself with were bad choices. I felt very cringy at times watching this last night. I didn't feel anger but more or less shame that Cowen is associated with the county. Anywhere you go and meet people, once they find out that you are from Offaly it is always a dig about Cowen or his leadership of the country. In all truth Cowen was hounded by the Irish media on more than a political front. He was attacked as he was a cluchie and not from one of the cities. He was likened to the idiot country boy that looked terrible, drank too much and spoke with a terrible bogger accent. This attack on his person was not warranted and I do feel sorry for him and his family. It did nothing for the BIFFO image anyway
Personally, I don't think that this thread should be on this website, as I don't believe that it has anything to do with GAA in Offaly. There are plenty of other forums out there to discuss politics in Ireland. This forum usually gives me an outlet away from all of the political news (which went into overdrive with the Presidential election) and when I come to the site and see this thread's subject, it makes my heart sink a little. I know I can choose to ignore reading the posts, but even the topic alone is enough.
If we do have to allow political discussion, can we at least change the topic - I suggest: "Sunshine and Lollipops".
Cowen did very little to help his cause while in office.
Whether it was naivety, or arrogance, but he should have listened to those who felt he needed to work on his image.
A sewer rat like Bertie on the other hand knew he could endear himself to the public with the feigned sheepish, fake stammer, aw shucks persona.
But lets not get too hung up on appearances. Cowen's greatest mistakes were going along the policy of massively ramping up public spending while at Finance and the bank guarantee while he was Taoiseach. The optics of how he connected with public in office is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.
The documentary told us more about the sort of backstabbing sleveens that Hanafin, Mammy O'Rourke, O'Dea and co. are though.
llkj wrote:Personally, I don't think that this thread should be on this website, as I don't believe that it has anything to do with GAA in Offaly. There are plenty of other forums out there to discuss politics in Ireland. This forum usually gives me an outlet away from all of the political news (which went into overdrive with the Presidential election) and when I come to the site and see this thread's subject, it makes my heart sink a little. I know I can choose to ignore reading the posts, but even the topic alone is enough.
If we do have to allow political discussion, can we at least change the topic - I suggest: "Sunshine and Lollipops".
Can we call it aday on this issue. RTE did their hatchet job on Brian Cowen over the last 2 programmes. On a personal level it was hard on Cowen's family, and I think most fair minded people would have sympathy with them.
I think ye might be looking at it with rose tinted glasses lads. All politicians are back stabbers and are only waiting to turn on their colleagues. Cowen was the leader of the country when the biggest mistakes were made and also minister of finance when policy dictated by the goverment lead to us needing a bailout. He might be a nice guy, intelligent etc. but was not a good policy maker for the country. ends
llkj wrote:Personally, I don't think that this thread should be on this website, as I don't believe that it has anything to do with GAA in Offaly. There are plenty of other forums out there to discuss politics in Ireland. This forum usually gives me an outlet away from all of the political news (which went into overdrive with the Presidential election) and when I come to the site and see this thread's subject, it makes my heart sink a little. I know I can choose to ignore reading the posts, but even the topic alone is enough.
If we do have to allow political discussion, can we at least change the topic - I suggest: "Sunshine and Lollipops".
I remember we had a discussion on this before, and the general view was held that if it pertains to Offaly, it's legitimate enough. Of course that could be revisited if more people felt like llkj? If you bring up a topic like this on politics.ie it will get swamped almost immediately by people with very hard, partisan views and it will quickly degenerate into another party political debate. On here you get the feel for how people from Cowen's home area feel about him and the different views you get from those who should be more sympathetic to his situation.
SearingDrive wrote:
Can we call it aday on this issue. RTE did their hatchet job on Brian Cowen over the last 2 programmes. On a personal level it was hard on Cowen's family, and I think most fair minded people would have sympathy with them.
I presume (though I don't know) that Brian was offered the opportunity to be part of the programme. Nothing that we saw on there was new information - he was Minister for Finance when the wheels came off, he was Taoiseach when we were suffering the consequences of his decisions as Minister for Finance, and the other FF ministers don't care that he ran the country into the ground, but care greatly that they lost their seats. Willie O'Dea's assertion that it would have been better if FF lost the 2007 election says a lot about the craven self-serving attitude in that party.
However when it comes to the family, I don't think they have any grounds for complaint. Most sensible analysts dismissed the stuff about his accent and his drinking, it was only other FF people who had a pop at him for either. The programme tore him to pieces for his political decisions, but that's fair commentary. Above all, Barry Cowen was happy to step in and look to retain "the family seat", as he did. That doesn't suggest to me that the wider Cowen family is unhappy with the spotlight and attention that comes with political life.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.
llkj wrote:Personally, I don't think that this thread should be on this website, as I don't believe that it has anything to do with GAA in Offaly. There are plenty of other forums out there to discuss politics in Ireland. This forum usually gives me an outlet away from all of the political news (which went into overdrive with the Presidential election) and when I come to the site and see this thread's subject, it makes my heart sink a little. I know I can choose to ignore reading the posts, but even the topic alone is enough.
If we do have to allow political discussion, can we at least change the topic - I suggest: "Sunshine and Lollipops".
Can we call it aday on this issue. RTE did their hatchet job on Brian Cowen over the last 2 programmes. On a personal level it was hard on Cowen's family, and I think most fair minded people would have sympathy with them.
Anybody who feels sorry for this man or his family needs their head examined and quick. Mr. Cowen will drain €151,061 per year of the taxpayers money into his pocket from now until he has his last rasher sandwich. Think about it. Thats 3K a week for the rest of his life and he doesn't even have to get out of bed for it.While we are at it you also have that chain smoking old hag Marian Finucane saying she 'earns' her 500K a year for hosting a few hours of shite chat every week. This country is a disgrace. Why can't Cowen live on 30K a year? Rasher sandwich doesn't cost that much.
It summed up Fianna Fail as much as it did Brian Cowen. I think one of the main things was that McCreavy was shipped off to Europe when he saw the warning signs on spending. One poster made a valid point here about how the image of the Biffo has never been stronger out there as a result of some of the antics of Cowen. I would say though it was disgraceful to see ORourke sit up there and pontificate, her own nephew not long passed away , but who also unfortunately made a bags of things.
But the main person who had me blood boiling, (and Bracknagh man, I nearly burnt me rashers I was that mad!!) was Hanafin. A sleevin of the highest order.
I think Cowen needed to work a bit on his appearance, lets face it which of us doesnt?? But his carry on with the boozin and he with a young family was a bit much, also he went from an articulate bloke to a man who spoke only in cliches. He never upped his game when he went in to Taoiseach, and in fairness came in with no major achievements on his CV. But lets face it, we turned around and elected his brother, what do that say to the rest of the country?
