The bigger picture (Hurling and football)

[azoffaly]

I think you are calling what I would call an approach, or a gameplan, a tactic. I don't think having a simple method of playing is the worst thing in the world. It's easy to teach, everyone knows what they are supposed to do and you can slot players in and out easily.

I agree that the business of tactics is sorely overlooked at times, but I don't think you should be formulating crazed schemes just for the sake of it. I think subtle differences based on circumstances (including players on your team or the opposition team at any given time) is the way to go.

For example, if you have big ball winning midfielders, your kickout tactic will involve some sort of movement where you are trying to isolate them 1 v 1 and let them use their skills. But when the ball is won, you still try and work it in according to your approach.

You may also try a different approach if the opposition are playing a sweeper in front of the full back, for example, but that different approach would still just be a variation on a theme. It may be diagonal balls instead of down the middle, as a simple example.

I'm not saying that you should play the step 1,2,3 and 4 in a religious zealot way, but I do think it is the basis for the best approach to what I consider the fundementals of gaelic football. Take care of the ball in your own half of the pitch, and try to make space and get GOOD ball (I hate when people mix up early ball with hoofed ball) into your forwards. Then you use the skills you have been coached on to engineer a shooting opportunity for yourself or a teammate, and take your chances.

I think, and this is a forward speaking, that any approach that delays getting ball into the forwards, or that results in a crowded scoring zone, is a bad approach.

[Phoenix]

Offaly don't seem to have any tactical variation or reaction to opponents moves. Maybe they are well versed in tactical changes and I'm just too thick to see it. Some questions?

Playing against the McGeeney Kildare blueprint of two man half-forward and full-forward lines with ball angled to the corners and dished off to incoming players - how do Offaly react - do the backs follow their men up-field or do they keep one or two back to occupy the space or sweep.

Playing against a Meath team lorrying ball down on the full forwards from 100 m away or alternatively playing against a gale force wind - do Offaly drop back a sweeper to screen the full back line?

Playing against the Dublin blanket zonal defence - do Offaly reflect/mirror it or play the normal way man-to-man.

What is Offaly's kick-out strategy. If being cleaned out at midfield - do Offaly start breaking the ball or angling Cluxton-style kicks out to the sidelines on the 45 metre line?

When Joe Kernan's Armagh played long ball from midfield it was diagonal angled ball across in front of the full forwards where they could come out and collect it. Our long ball seems to be straight down the pitch with snow on it regardless of the size of the forward underneath or the numbers back (granted Niall McNamee sometimes wins those Hail Mary long deliveries).

If Offaly are showing sophisticated tactical awareness I'd be glad to have it explained to me! Help, please?

[Lone Shark]

I think, and this is a forward speaking, that any approach that delays getting ball into the forwards, or that results in a crowded scoring zone, is a bad approach.

And if a team has natural forwards, then we'd agree. The problem is they don't necessarily have that. They might have guys who can score, but that's not always the same thing.

I'd say fundamentally we're on the same page, it just bugs me that whether it's club or county football in Offaly, it's basic, and lads struggle to adapt to anything different. But I see what you mean about not throwing out the baby with the bathwater all the same.

[Truth as i see it]

With all of the doom and gloom going around at the moment i was delighted to read in one of the sunday newspapers (can't remember which one) that there will be a new hurling development programme put in place based off the succsessful templete that Killkenny employed over the past ten years which brought them so much success

Basicley from what i understand there will be up to ten ex county players involved who will be doing montly coaching workshops at schools and clubs around Offaly within the age bracket of 8-13 years old.

They coaches have been retrained in modern day techniques and will be focusing on the age-brackets of 8-13 years old

Pat Cleary will head up the project as the head of hurling development to which the coaches will answer ( again dont have the details with me just saying off the top of my head what i can remember so please forgive any errorr in minor details)

I think this is fantastic to see and in fairness to the Offaly board you have to give them credit for bringing this in.

I am usually first in line to give them stick about their outdated player development methods but on this one you have to say fair play for thinking out side the box.

Granted the majority of it was probably thought up by the players and we are essentially copying another model but hey its a plan at least which is more than we had last year

But in any case well done to the board for backing the model

(i never knew they had it in them)

Now if only they could come up with something similer for the footballers!!!

[Lone Shark]

Now if only they could come up with something similer for the footballers!!!

Definitely fair play to the CB for realising there is a problem and actually trying to do something about it, however the footballers have completely different issues. The standard of footballer preparation up to age eighteen in Offaly is quite good, it all starts to go wrong between there and 21, and indeed beyond.

[Plain of the Herbs]

I think it's worth pointing out that of the 17 hurlers who saw action yesterday, 6 (Dempsey, Murphy, Morkan, Currams, Colin Egan & Mulrooney) were on the U21 team humiliated in Kilkenny last year.

That doesn't mean Offaly's problems are over (far from it, but some dope among ye will think that's the point I'm making) but it backs up the point I made last week about underage success not being a necessity in order to make progress.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Article from yesterday's Sindo which interviewed John Leahy and Johnny Flaherty.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling ... 60638.html

Warriors depart faithful fields

Offaly hurling is the underdog again with the production lines reduced to a trickle, writes Dermot Crowe

THOSE manic late moments in the 1981 All-Ireland final between Offaly and Galway are being reviewed in the company of Johnny Flaherty. "Is it 30 years?" he yelps. "It is! 30 years!"

The match is nearing conclusion, Galway to the fore, when Danny Owens accelerates through the cover with the ball glued to his stick. His pace seems to have set him free but as Owens squeezes the trigger Iggy Clarke audaciously hooks him, saving a score and salvaging the ball. He still has to clear it. He feints to his left side, then spins right and, virtually from the goal line, strikes a sweet relieving clearance to the middle of the field.

On such noble intercessions are All-Irelands won but that is not how Clarke's labour was rewarded. Offaly came again. The ball fell into the hand of Pat Delaney and the blond-cropped defender swept forward, released it to Brendan Bermingham who drew the cover and popped it inside to a small, 30-something forward with a Manuel-style moustache. Having set up a goal in the first half for Pat Carroll, Flaherty proceeded to score one for himself. He tossed the sliotar like a grenade and Galway's hopes exploded. Offaly won their first MacCarthy Cup; we would be compelled to look at Offaly in a different way from then on.

Thirty years later, Flaherty has shorn the moustache but lost none of the passion or fervent ideas on what made Offaly great in the first place. They head to Croke Park as outsiders today against an emerging Dublin team from a county that has seen their underage sides already speed past the Faithful's young hurlers. Last weekend Flaherty watched the Offaly minors lose to Westmeath while scoring only one point from play. He feels Offaly has lost its way.

He has been through all the relevant ages of Offaly hurling but that day in 1981 was unparalleled and unrepeatable because it was a first. Only a year earlier they broke their duck at provincial level after a decade of Kilkenny-Wexford finals. By '81, Flaherty was near the end of his career. When he started hurling for the county in the 1960s their matches were feral affairs. He played the day of the infamous Battle of Birr so notorious for its brutality that it seemed to stop all the clocks for a moment and demand that Offaly navel-gaze and reconsider what they were at.

"It was horrendous in the 1960s, how we got through the '60s I don't know. I often look back and to see the bully boys that tried to bully a hurler, and no appreciation for skill. If they couldn't beat you in hurling, they tried to bamboozle you some other way."

Birr has such graceful connotations in the hurling world that any association with thuggery seems inappropriate. But in 1967 Offaly went into the Leinster championship with an impressive league behind them and rising hopes of making a mark. They hosted Westmeath at Birr and lost the match with six players sent off, three from each side, including Flaherty though he pleads that he was not the aggressor. It had a pivotal influence on how the game was played, he believes.

The county secretary and eventual GAA president John Dowling, a referee himself, set the tone from the top down and referees who brooked no argument on discipline, like Mick Spain and Gerry Kirwan, emerged and a new enlightenment took hold. "We were in Birr and thought we could do what we liked," says Flaherty of the Westmeath game. "Looking back it was a defining moment; from there on we played hurling. Offaly tried bullying instead of going out to win the game. Breaking up lads. We got rid of that mentality."

Flaherty cites changes being wrought as far back as the late 1960s, simple things like tea and a sandwich after matches, and the arrival of Brother Denis as a hurling connoisseur and missionary from Cork. Their win in 1981 begat the wins in 1985 and 1994 and '98 and the underage success over the same period. But it has dried up. Since winning the All-Ireland minor title in 1989, captained by Brian Whelahan, Offaly have won just one provincial minor championship. In the same year, 2000, they won their last Leinster under 21 title. They are not unique. Wexford's last minor at provincial level was in 1985. But Offaly face Dublin today in the Leinster championship as underdogs, conscious of a widening gap, knowing their minors and under 21s are already playing second fiddle.

Having played the day they lost to Westmeath in '68, Flaherty was among the troubled onlookers as the minors suffered a similar fate last weekend. For four years he was the county's director of hurling and involved with development squads and trying to get the game alive and kicking in the county again. In 2005, he freely forecast that Offaly would be hot on Kilkenny's heels at underage in two years. That hasn't happened, not nearly.

Westmeath have a good minor team and there is a lot of admirable work going on in that county at juvenile grades. There is no shame in losing to them to those in the know. But the Offaly performance and exit left much to be desired. "With no disrespect to Westmeath, and I trained their fathers, and as nice a people you would not meet, but it was a hard one for me to sit on the sideline after all the work we put in trying to get them right," admits Flaherty. "To think all we were capable of was scoring one point from play. One point from play. The poverty of that. It hurts me deeply. One point. And that's where we're at."

John Leahy is Offaly's games development administrator and has overseen coaching for the last nine years. "This Westmeath team is coming for the last four years," he states. "People are probably saying it's an all-time low, but there are still activities taking place to keep the game alive in Offaly; hurling is an art, it needs a lot of attention."

He is doing what he can. "Leinster Council sets a lot of targets and one thing I would be critical of is that we are setting targets that are generic. And in order to get funding you have to reach your target. We do things different here than they do in Wexford, and maybe Westmeath. So I do believe that type of barrier should be taken away. I spend 90 per cent of my time trying to reach targets for Leinster Council in order to get finance."

The targets are having minimum number of blitzes and kids attendance figures and so on. "I have said it at Leinster level," says Leahy, "we have turned this into a numbers' game."

Flaherty is critical of some decisions taken in his time as director of hurling. "We got to within a point of (reaching) an under 16 final, beaten in extra-time in the semi-finals of the Arrabawn (tournament). We beat Limerick and Tipp and Clare and Cork that day and Wexford beat us by a point, a 21-yard free, and they beat Kilkenny by about ten points (in the final). It was an indication we were going in the right way and we were beginning to look after ourselves and do the right thing. We had them in the Forristal (under 14 tournament) two years previous to that and we got bet 28 points by Wexford, so it was a fantastic achievement to be able to turn that around."

When the development squad entered the two-year minor cycle the minor board decided to change the management team. A new team took over under Johnny Pilkington. "It was a fierce unskilful thing to do because we had developed a super attitude with these young lads. I never saw one curse or be out of control during those years," says Flaherty. "I went to America for a funeral, next thing they had a new management in place. The people who came in were very good people but I was very annoyed.

"We promised ourselves we would play a minor final within two years with that team and we were after playing everybody in Leinster and Munster and showed up well. It was the pinnacle of where we wanted to get with our development. And if we achieved that we had a base to work from. They reached no Leinster final."

In 2008 when that team reached minor maturity, they lost to Carlow, 2-13 to 1-9, then drew with Dublin and defeated Kildare. In the next round they lost to Wexford by 12 points and were eliminated. They haven't contested a minor final since 2003. The margin of defeat by Westmeath was eight points.

Flaherty may have a point in terms of continuity and even loyalty when raising the issue of changing management teams midstream during a team's development cycle. "They were the most ordinary, down-to-earth people of all time who had the oul' thing at heart. They turned up and did the work and they were good to the lads. They were terrific. They looked after them, they mightn't have been the best trainers in the world but they were there.

"The people who made that decision were never hurlers in their life or understood what the development of kids is all about. You don't have to be a fucking All-Ireland hurler to be a good coach or to do a job. You can go in there with common sense and do good training and have a good bond. If you want to grow as a manager then start at under 14 and work your way up and you might become a manager then; you learn your trade. There is a trade in being a manager."

Others argue the toss. The Arrabawn is a blitz and may not be a fair comparison to the demands of the minor championship. But nobody disputes that the results from under 14 to under 16 suggested improvement and that the existing management could be entitled to feel hard done by. "I am at the coalface 24 hours a day," says John Leahy, "and if I drove you to every hurling club in Offaly we would be there and back in three quarters of an hour. We have falling numbers. This summarised it for me: when girls could not play under 14 any more, that rule came in, some rural clubs could not field a full under 15 team and dropped back into 'B' competition -- that's detrimental. And we don't have the big towns, Clara, Edenderry and Tullamore; the biggest we have is Birr. Like we would have had a big six foot two lad and our best hurler and go down to, say, Clare and find he was nearly the smallest player on the field. See our current senior team in comparison to all the other senior teams out there. When we go out on Sunday we will see a massive difference in size."

Former Offaly hurlers like Michael Duignan, John Troy, Gary Cahill, Johnny Pilkington, and Mark Corrigan have been involved with development squads but Leahy is also keen to improve coaching standards in the clubs. The newly appointed hurling co-ordinator, Pat Cleary, is overseeing a programme that will coach kids from the age of eight up to the first development squad year.

Flaherty supports home-grown managers and is opposed to outside appointments. He talks about rediscovering the "Offaly way" of hurling. Leahy agrees that this can be hard to pinpoint. "It's a bit of a myth in one way, people will say to you 'ground hurling', but if you watch the old DVDs it was only very intelligent and skilful players playing the ball on, moving it on. They kept the ball low the whole time and if it was moved on the ground there was direction to it."

To which Flaherty says: "We have our own way of playing in this county, I wouldn't want that changed for anybody. That's why it is important for me to try to get our own Offaly way back of playing. Ground hurling we call it here, but we explain it badly, it is about using the open space. Use it to your advantage, move it fast."

In Flaherty's home club of Kinnity he sees all the modern paraphernalia he never dreamt of as a child: ball nets, stand, modern facilities, but not enough good hurlers. "We had no nets and no hot water, and sheep shite in the field, but we had hurlers, now you explain that one now."

He takes a moment and then seems as if he has suddenly seen the light. "We are not creating the warriors, we are not creating the fucking men."

[Plain of the Herbs]

In a rare departure, Flaherty makes some sense here, up to a point. Then again, he had all the answers when interviewed in 2005 as the development squads were getting underway, under his supervision, and look what happened. That interview can be read in the ‘press articles’ section elsewhere on this site.

He has some interesting observations on where it all went wrong with a team who had been doing well at U14 and U16 level only to collapse, spectacularly so, at Minor.

Older people claim that the cleaning up of Offaly hurling came as a result of appointing outside referees to do the senior club matches. It seems back then that, before a match, the respective clubs haggled over a referee before reaching an agreement! I could hardly believe that when I heard it.

John Leahy’s point about smaller clubs being deprived of fielding girls following a rule implemented at progressive Kilcormac’s prompting is a correct one.

Leahy’s point about what constituted traditional Offaly hurling is also interesting. Flaherty’s comment “We have our own way of playing in this county, I wouldn't want that changed for anybody” merely indicated that, if pressed to choose between outdated methods or making progress with updated ways of doing things, he would choose the former.

He should be left out of it.

[Truth as i see it]

Now if only they could come up with something similer for the footballers!!!

Definitely fair play to the CB for realising there is a problem and actually trying to do something about it, however the footballers have completely different issues. The standard of footballer preparation up to age eighteen in Offaly is quite good, it all starts to go wrong between there and 21, and indeed beyond.

Yeah i understand that Loan Shark i just meant it would be great to get someone in on a simular position to the one Pat Cleary now does for the hurlers, sort of a guy with innovative ideas passing them on to the coaches who would like the hurlers impliment them at ground floor level ( in a nutshell a director of football)

That way the pressure on the board to impliment change and come up with the right ideas to update the coaching and games methods would be taken out of their hands and put into guys who keep up to date with any new ideas occuring within Gaa circles

[backofthenet]

Look there is an awful lot talked about here, completely focused on north offaly. There is a lot of work going on at underage level in north offaly as regards hurling and it is good to see. But there are an awful lot of people on here who have an awful chip on their shoulder, seem to think they are done out of this lad being on the team becasue he is from this club etc. Lets get it straight, Coolderry won the under 21 Championship last year, not one player on the offaly under 21 team....including the under 21 player of the year who was called into the panel played about 2 and a half minutes in a challenge game and is then dropped. The fact is Offaly is way too clannish to see anything straight. If someone gets in from a certain club they have preconceived notions about this club or that club. I went to Offaly trials at nausem when I was younger, the longest I got on the field at a trial was about 15 minutes. I never got a call back but players who never even went to the trial were then somehow on the panel!!! Im not saying this to say that I should or shouldnt have made the cut, Im saying this because it is inherrent in offaly, Im convinced we are at the stage that we need to get someone from outside the county to be over the underage structure in offaly. If that happened there would be no more former offaly players getting the job simply because they are former offaly players.

[jimbob17]

While i agree that a director of hurling is enthusiastic and getting some extra coaches into the clubs, i am not sure if this is the answer at all. Firstly a lot of former players make great coaches but an awful lot of them dont either. How good are these fellas as coaches. Will they make a significant improvement given that they are being paid to coach. there is not a whole lot wrong with the clubs really, as that level will always be amateurish. its at county level where there is a lack of quality coaching, nepotism in who gets the gigs and nepotism in how teams and squads are chosen!

Who are we putting in with the development squads. What does development mean? how do we know players are developing. Is there real development??? or are they just doing extra training with higher calibre of player.
Why dont they spend the money more wisely. why dont they get the best coaches in the county in with the county development squads and give them the same few quid for it whether they are a former legend or an ordinary Joe who is a quality coach. Only then will county teams become successful again.
Why isnt there continuity with regard to minor management from u 14 level through 15 and 16 where management teams know players and their best positions instead of bringing in new people to work with them at minor level, often a local legend with zero coaching credentials.

[Greenwhiteandgold]

Look there is an awful lot talked about here, completely focused on north offaly. There is a lot of work going on at underage level in north offaly as regards hurling and it is good to see. But there are an awful lot of people on here who have an awful chip on their shoulder, seem to think they are done out of this lad being on the team becasue he is from this club etc. Lets get it straight, Coolderry won the under 21 Championship last year, not one player on the offaly under 21 team....including the under 21 player of the year who was called into the panel played about 2 and a half minutes in a challenge game and is then dropped. The fact is Offaly is way too clannish to see anything straight. If someone gets in from a certain club they have preconceived notions about this club or that club. I went to Offaly trials at nausem when I was younger, the longest I got on the field at a trial was about 15 minutes. I never got a call back but players who never even went to the trial were then somehow on the panel!!! Im not saying this to say that I should or shouldnt have made the cut, Im saying this because it is inherrent in offaly, Im convinced we are at the stage that we need to get someone from outside the county to be over the underage structure in offaly. If that happened there would be no more former offaly players getting the job simply because they are former offaly players.

Couldnt agree with ya more back of the net.. I have often seen lads from a big club who barely make the team making the development panels and lads who are the best for there small club woudnt get a look in. Its all who ya are, and where ya come from.

[kingscounty]

i agree with backofthenet.the county needs to change its mind set.it shouldnt matter where your from ,what part of offaly,if your good enough you should be given a chance in football or hurling.neither i think should it matter what grade your playing you should be at least given a chance.kilkenny had 7 of their panel that came from inter/junior clubs over the last few years!!there are good individuals from all clubs and all grades,but in offaly if your not related to a past player or if your not playing senior club hurling then its goodluck to ye.its better to have a good mix of lads from all over the county and it generates more interest and gets the whole county involved.

[joe bloggs]

Why isnt there continuity with regard to minor management from u 14 level through 15 and 16 where management teams know players and their best positions instead of bringing in new people to work with them at minor level, often a local legend with zero coaching credentials.

I have heard this one before. the reason why we don;t have continuity for a coach from 14 up is that it is proving very difficult to find people to commit to the develoment squads

[joe bloggs]

.its better to have a good mix of lads from all over the county and it generates more interest and gets the whole county involved.

What a load of crap. It is the best players we want, not a panel picked on geography