Offaly Hurling team for championship v Dublin

[kingscounty]

not a bad offaly team,i know we are missing a good few lads but we cant do anything about it at this stage.we may get behind the lads for 70mins on sunday.offaly are proud hurling county a proud people and i have no doubt the lads will try their very best and get stuck into the sky blues and show them no respect until the game is over.in my mind we are in a great position to cause an upset,like we always do.its 15 against 15, if the lads are fired up in the dressing room we can do it,we will do ,come on offaly,come on ta fuck.

[durra1]

It would be good if it was 15 v 15 ... nowadays it more 19 v 19.

If Dublin get the direct running game going we could be out on our feet after 50.

I have a dreaded feeling that Ger Healion will be exposed in the wide expanses of Croker. If they dropped Ryan O Dwyer back in his League final form, I can see little or no contest there.

We haven’t much on the bench worth talking about these days, especially with injuries.

Hate to be pessimistic given all the effort that goes in to the preparation.

Hope I’m wrong.

[the bare biffo]

I used to listen to Finnerty banging on about the link between underage and senior success and think it wasnt relevan to a conty with a playing poulation the size of offaly's. But I think he was right.
On another thread here theres a list of 7 leinster final appearances and including 4 wins in 8 years in the 60's. Then we had senior success from 69 to 73
The late 70's early 80's footbal team was preceded by a very good minor team in 76 that was unlucky to lose to Dublin in the Leinster final and a string of good u-21's at the end of the 70's.
I think the 80's hurling team was preceded by an u-21 leinster title ? And of course the freaks of the 80's, 3 minor hurling all irelands leading to the 2 seniors in the 90's. Even the Leinster football win in 97 was I think preceded by a minor or u-21 success.

I dont belive it is necessarily to do with the quality of player that makes such a difference, but winning makes a massive imprint on the attitude of any lad from 16 to 20. And I think now the biggest difference between the successful counties and the rest is mental. Confidence, belief, attitude whatever.

HSM,

I do think there’s too much of a focus on the “we’ve won nothing at underage in yonks” stuff (this goes for football too, and you are, of course, welcome to comment on both on this forum!).

Any underage team will be divided roughly into three. There’ll be the stars, who will go on to hurl Senior anyway, there’ll be those who do the donkey work, and there’ll be those who make up the numbers. The success of an underage team depends on how many stars there are, and on the contribution the third category will make. Of course, you want as many of the first two categories and as few of the third, though that will depend on population trends. Offaly, or Carlow or the like will always be up against it in this regard. You still need to field 15.

I do feel that the problem is that players are being under-prepared for dealing with players from other counties (not being competent enough in the air, etc.). Phoenix, in a succinct summary of the Westmeath match says as much. We can only speculate as yet how many of that Minor team will go on to hurl at Senior level.

Joseph Bergin (who is one of the most talented hurlers in the country, in my view) had an inglorious Minor career, as far as results are concerned, yet made a big impact when he first hurled Senior on his first year out of Minor. On the other hand, Stephen Egan is one who slipped in under the underage radar. James Rigney too.

Yes, it would be nice to be successful at underage. I do think it’s more important to develop a few each year who would make an impact at Senior. Encouraging a more modern game among the youth would be critical.

I'm not from the hurling part of the county and I wouldn't claim to have the same knowledge of our players as most of ye posting on here. The general consensus from what I'm reading is that Joe Dooley was a bad appointment, a poor manager and has lost the respect of several players. Fair enough. But looking at our recent record at Minor & U-21, is it really any surprise that we're not competing at the very top anymore and the likes of Carlow & Westmeath are rapidly catching up with us? Have many of the current senior panel tasted success with the county at any level growing up? I know there was the Leinster minor championship victory some years ago, but thats pretty much it. The question is, do we have the players? I'd be inclined to say that we dont. If thats the case, then I dont care what manager we have, we'll win nothing.
I'll be there on Sunday cheering on the lads. We'll revel in the underdogs role and if we can put up a show anything like we did against Galway last year then we're in with a shout. Up the Faithful!

[townman]

I used to listen to Finnerty banging on about the link between underage and senior success and think it wasnt relevan to a conty with a playing poulation the size of offaly's. But I think he was right.
On another thread here theres a list of 7 leinster final appearances and including 4 wins in 8 years in the 60's. Then we had senior success from 69 to 73
The late 70's early 80's footbal team was preceded by a very good minor team in 76 that was unlucky to lose to Dublin in the Leinster final and a string of good u-21's at the end of the 70's.
I think the 80's hurling team was preceded by an u-21 leinster title ? And of course the freaks of the 80's, 3 minor hurling all irelands leading to the 2 seniors in the 90's. Even the Leinster football win in 97 was I think preceded by a minor or u-21 success.

I dont belive it is necessarily to do with the quality of player that makes such a difference, but winning makes a massive imprint on the attitude of any lad from 16 to 20. And I think now the biggest difference between the successful counties and the rest is mental. Confidence, belief, attitude whatever.

HSM,

I do think there’s too much of a focus on the “we’ve won nothing at underage in yonks” stuff (this goes for football too, and you are, of course, welcome to comment on both on this forum!).

Any underage team will be divided roughly into three. There’ll be the stars, who will go on to hurl Senior anyway, there’ll be those who do the donkey work, and there’ll be those who make up the numbers. The success of an underage team depends on how many stars there are, and on the contribution the third category will make. Of course, you want as many of the first two categories and as few of the third, though that will depend on population trends. Offaly, or Carlow or the like will always be up against it in this regard. You still need to field 15.

I do feel that the problem is that players are being under-prepared for dealing with players from other counties (not being competent enough in the air, etc.). Phoenix, in a succinct summary of the Westmeath match says as much. We can only speculate as yet how many of that Minor team will go on to hurl at Senior level.

Joseph Bergin (who is one of the most talented hurlers in the country, in my view) had an inglorious Minor career, as far as results are concerned, yet made a big impact when he first hurled Senior on his first year out of Minor. On the other hand, Stephen Egan is one who slipped in under the underage radar. James Rigney too.

Yes, it would be nice to be successful at underage. I do think it’s more important to develop a few each year who would make an impact at Senior. Encouraging a more modern game among the youth would be critical.

I'm not from the hurling part of the county and I wouldn't claim to have the same knowledge of our players as most of ye posting on here. The general consensus from what I'm reading is that Joe Dooley was a bad appointment, a poor manager and has lost the respect of several players. Fair enough. But looking at our recent record at Minor & U-21, is it really any surprise that we're not competing at the very top anymore and the likes of Carlow & Westmeath are rapidly catching up with us? Have many of the current senior panel tasted success with the county at any level growing up? I know there was the Leinster minor championship victory some years ago, but thats pretty much it. The question is, do we have the players? I'd be inclined to say that we dont. If thats the case, then I dont care what manager we have, we'll win nothing.
I'll be there on Sunday cheering on the lads. We'll revel in the underdogs role and if we can put up a show anything like we did against Galway last year then we're in with a shout. Up the Faithful!

all the underage success has done galway or laois any good over the last 15 years i think if you can get a few good minors every year you can get a good team
the team of the 80's only had the under 21 leinster win in 1978. and there was a good few on the 80's side that had no underage success.

[Kevin]

Its been a long time since people got sick when our name was next on their fixture list. Unlike a number of others this may be the first time Dublin are happy to see us up next. Let's show them come 3:30 on Sunday that they were mistaken. It will serve as a warning to everyone else too.

FYI, yhat game is on at 2.00 on Sunday. I assume we are on TV with Tipp and Cork in the 4.00 game

Cheers efan. A little cryptic on my part. Figuring it will take the final whistle to alert them as to what 'just' happened.

9:00AM start for me.

In the very off chance anyone is in East Durham this weekend, be advised that Furlong's will not be showing the games. The Blackthorne will have them just up the road.

UP THE FAITHFUL!!!!!!

[Bord na Mona man]

all the underage success has done galway or laois any good over the last 15 years

Leix won their first Leinster title since the 1940s with a team of players who came through their successful underage setup.
Obviously underage success is no guarantee of anything at senior. However if counties fail to convert underage into senior success, it doesn't mean they shouldn't have bothered in the first place.

It sounds like a career dole artist laughing at the lads who went to university and can't get a job.

[Long John]

Is Brian Carroll definately going to start or have they just named him anyway and make a final decision before the game?

[jimbob17]

in relation to development of players etc as related to by other posters, i think that there are a lot of issues involved. Some have remarked that we will only get 3/4 per minor team anyway to graduate from senior level and that we are doing ok in this regard given the size of the county. I think this idea masks an awful lot.

1 As a county, underage football has been getting some degree of success in the past few years. This has been down to a lot of good combined work done within schools and clubs and county. However, we must really ask what the term "development" means and only then can we guage if we are making progress like other counties in Hurling (Westmeath, Dublin and Carlow who have all passed us out at underage development level).
To me "development" means making a player better skilled, physically and mentally stronger, faster, more agile and tactically more aware. Are our young players in these underage squads getting a type of training that is developing all of these areas. If they are not, then there is no development, just extra training with a higher calibre of player than they have at club level.

Other counties have been developing these areas in the past few years and sadly, we are not up to speed.
To really develop these players, high quality coaches with the requisite skills to develop these areas need to be put in place. here are a few questions.... As part of being in the county squad, Do these players have access to Highly skilled coaches to develop skills and tactical awareness?? strength and conditioning expertise to develop strength, fitness coaches to develop speed, running technique, agility and reaction times, and sport psychologists to develop mental strength. If the answer is no, then are we really developing players or just training the better footballers in the various age groups.

It was blatantly obvious in the minor football match with kildare and hurling game with westmeath, that we are behind in all of these areas, especially strength and speed. Other counties have addressed these issues and have programmes in place with the best coaches and paid experts (sport science and psychology) in their counties in with these teams. My opinion is that this is not the case in offaly and most especially on the hurling front.

Another major issue is that there is a lot of nepotism that exists throughout the GAA in offaly be it from clubs sending in their own sons from u 14 level to a serious bias against North Offaly in the hurling areas for selection of county teams. also the selection of minor and u 21 management is an absolute farce, especially in hurling. People are pulled out of the woodwork to work with these teams with no coaching experience just because the might have been a great hurler one time. either that or they are a known as mad passionate Offaly GAA man who will get them psyched up no end having done no degree of quality training and coaching. Where is the development under this type of structure. The day of the dinosaur on the coaching front running hills and laps and not pucking a ball in training is long gone i am afraid but offaly have not realised this at the top table. Those on the committees who are making key decisions are clueless with regard to what is actually required to improve the whole structure. this even transfers to key decisions regarding choice of senior management and their support structures. This is why we are where we are.

In relation to North Offaly hurling, St Davids win u 21 and four lads get called to county 21 level, 3 of whom cant make a minor panel the previous year because they are from the wrong club or dont go to school in the right place. It is rife all over and a lot of hurlers are lost because of this. Clara have at least 3 hurlers good enough for co minor hurling between last year and this year but none were in there. Did Finbarr Cullen hurl in an all ireland minor final??? and would an edenderry young lad be even considered for an offaly hurling panel now. those in charge need to be neutral and pick the best players at 14. when this doesnt happen, lads get browned off and wont go in when they are older. Steven Egan is a case in point and would not be hurling with offaly now only that Joe Dooley knew how good he was and kept bringing him, ditto derek molloy.

On the football front, the major fall down area appears to be the transition from minor to 21. Good work has seen offaly more than competitive up to minor level reaching 3/4 leinster finals in 6 years. in this time though, i dont think we have won 1 u 21 match. is there development of players in relation to the areas mentioned for players at this time, I Think not.

So going forward, we can look and talk about development all we like but we are only paying lip service and no development is really happening if players are not improving thro a coherent strategised programme to improve these key areas like all the other counties have introduced.

there are plenty of examples of proper development structures, ie kildare football, Armagh hurling, dublin, westmeath and carlow underage hurling. another example of real development has been the cork footballers in the past few years. Offaly drew with them twice in the league in 05 and 06. look where they have gone since compared with Offaly. they did this with a strategic programme in place addressing all of the areas mentioned above. The politics was taken out of Cork GAA by Billy Morgan and he picked the best players whether they were from junior, inter or senior clubs. Half of that cork senior football panel come from junior or intermediate clubs. this was continued by counihan where no political bulls#@t was tolerated. the same goes for cody in KK and we all see what happened there. In Offaly, St Vincents underage have been a driving force and they play with Cappincur, Daingean, Kilclonfert and ballycommon. they are at the very centre of the football area in offaly. When was the last time that anybody from any of these clubs played senior league or championship with offaly. Ditto Na Fianna underage. We need to open our eyes big time or we will be a laughing stock for many many years ahead and we will still be asking where it all went wrong...

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Is Brian Carroll definately going to start or have they just named him anyway and make a final decision before the game?

Given the injury and the fact that it only occurred 7 days ago, I see it like this:

1: He definitely shouldn't be starting but, given this management, who knows.

2: If he does start, he won't last and we'll waste a sub in the process.

Did I not read in the Tribune on Wednesday that he was on crutches on Monday? That says it all.

[faithfulman]

1: He definitely shouldn't be starting but, given this management, who knows.

Any alternatives to not starting him? now that rorys out, we have to hurl hayden at wing back so we haven't a whole pile of options.

2: If he does start, he won't last and we'll waste a sub in the process.

I'd rather that than bringing him on, him not lasting and taking him off again.thus, wasting two subs

[Plain of the Herbs]

If Brian Carroll isn't right then he shouldn't hurl. Regardless of who else is missing. Particularly if there's a risk that he could aggrivate his injury. There'll be a qualifier match in 3 or 4 weeks time (depending on the draw) which is when BC (and others) will be needed.

To be fair, there are few more passionate about Offaly hurling than Brian Carroll and I'm sure he's mad to hurl, but sometimes the greater good comes first.

1: He definitely shouldn't be starting but, given this management, who knows.

Any alternatives to not starting him? now that rorys out, we have to hurl hayden at wing back so we haven't a whole pile of options.

2: If he does start, he won't last and we'll waste a sub in the process.

I'd rather that than bringing him on, him not lasting and taking him off again.thus, wasting two subs

[Offaly2010]

‎(Dublin SH v Offaly) Maguire,Corcoran,Kelly,Gough,O Brien,McCaffrey,Durkin,Rushe,McCrabbe,McCormack,O Dwyer,Keaney,O Callaghan,Plunkett,Ryan

[Bord na Mona man]

To be fair, there are few more passionate about Offaly hurling than Brian Carroll and I'm sure he's mad to hurl, but sometimes the greater good comes first.

Future Offaly manager I reckon.

[allstar2010]

Ah this is terrible, I would have given us a slim chance if Rory Hanniffy ( without doubt our finest hurler) was playing but now this leaves the challenge nearly impossible and brian Carroll could be gone after ten min. We're gona need a big game from joe bergin and we all know he can produce it. Like, looking at the dublin team they are no world beaters but do we have too many injuries at this stage? I suppose they have nothing to lose and just go out and give it a lash. No one is giving them a chance but maybe just maybe....

[Bord na Mona man]

Lets not forget that Dublin have injury problem too. They are down 3 first choice backs, though the replacements aren't too bad.
Dublin are well organised, playing well and confident now, but their team is by no means star-studded.

Of all our injuries, Rory Hanniffy's is the one that will really bags up the shape of the Offaly team though.