offaly footballers of the year???

[Long John]

Agree totally for once with Paul Watts in that Reynolds offers little to the county set up. He will kick a few scores if you hand him the ball, give him credit for that he does take the chances he gets. However, he lacks pace, he's carrying an arse on him around the field and more concerned with taping up his jersey sleeves than actually getting stuck in and winning dirty ball. I think he's a poacher with decent footballing skill, but he's too cowardly and any county manager that picks him in a half forward line is out of his mind. That frustrates me so much because he's not a ball winner, he's a man for the inside line and being frank about it theres better options there.

Now as for Ward, totally agree also, if he commits, he's no.14 without question. I can guarantee here and now if he trained hard with the county in the coming year and gets a fair crack, himself and Nialler would not be stopped if given enough ball. Add Anton Sullivan in the corner and let him drift and come back in from time to time. Deehan and Casey would be perfect options to spring with 20 minutes to go.

Deehan and Smith would be great additions but as people have said before their ego's are just out of control.

[paulwatts]

you would know its xmas cos im also agreeing with most of what you are saying. but is reynolds really cowardly??? i dont think he actually is. and secondly if deehan does commit he is a guaranteed starter. he is better than pj and anton. but i would question his commitment to the cause ,and i believe only plyers 100percent focused should be selected. remember how good thomo and nialler were in 06, imagine 2011 when both entering their peak....would love to see the two man inside line again.

[Lone Shark]

Agree totally for once with Paul Watts in that Reynolds offers little to the county set up. He will kick a few scores if you hand him the ball, give him credit for that he does take the chances he gets. However, he lacks pace, he's carrying an arse on him around the field and more concerned with taping up his jersey sleeves than actually getting stuck in and winning dirty ball. I think he's a poacher with decent footballing skill, but he's too cowardly and any county manager that picks him in a half forward line is out of his mind. That frustrates me so much because he's not a ball winner, he's a man for the inside line and being frank about it theres better options there.

I wouldn't agree with this at all. I agree insofar as I think he's best deployed in the inside line and if Niall and Tommo are available, he'll struggle to make his place, but he does get stuck in and never pulls out of tackles or anything like that. He is a lot more consistent a scorer than most of the forwards in Offaly, and he still has enough pace to beat a man. I certainly think he's always in decent shape - and it should not be forgotten that at the start of the league campaign this year, when Niall was off form, it was John Reynolds who was carrying the attack. I find it hard to believe that he could go from being our second best attacker for long spells of the year to suddenly not being worthy of consideration at the very least.

[paulwatts]

i agree loneshark, i would say reynolds is actually brave. there is no denying he is a better scorer than most in offaly, he lacks something and i am never able to put my finger on it.....loneshark was just wondering is gerry grehan in with offaly this year??? i always thought he was a super footballer with pace and braveness...so slight it probably goes against him...

[Long John]

Sorry lads, I just dont agree, Ive seen him play alot over the last ten years and Reynolds is not brave, he's as cowardly as you can get. He will hit a lad alright, but it will be a silly lazy tackle.

He can score as I said, put that ball in his hands close to goal and he will do the business. Loneshark I know you are saying he did well in the league early in the year, yes, when the game is slow and players are not as sharp as they could be and the opposition weak enough. Lets not forget he had played alot of O' Byrne cup and Sigerson football with Athlone IT at that time so he had loads of match practice and training games under his belt. I dont rate him lads, and anybody I chat to dont rate him either. Deehan is ten times the footballer Reynolds is but the one thing they have in common is great confidence in themselves. Reynolds thinks he is the Gooch of football, he wants to be the Beckham of GAA, but hes not what you want beside you when you go to war.

Offaly teams have been bad in recent years and I wouldnt knock them for trying hard but it sickens me when I see him out on the 45 yard line with hands on his hips dictating to others. Hes too lazy, and too cowardly. Two things I hate to see in any player wearing the county jersey.

[The Magpie]

Sorry lads, I just dont agree, Ive seen him play alot over the last ten years and Reynolds is not brave, he's as cowardly as you can get. He will hit a lad alright, but it will be a silly lazy tackle.

Long John, if memory serves me correctly, you posted something similar to this after Offaly played Clare in the qualifiers. I challenged you then to give me one instance in that game when this was evident - you didn't. Players that are

as cowardly as you can get

generally survive for less than 10 inter-county games. They get found-out very quickly and then publicly wither. In fact, most players that fall into this category will fail to make a decent Senior club team - because everyone knows their weakness. In addition, it's not something that you can coach/train/whatever out of players (as you recently stated of Shane Dooley) - it's intrinsic in a persons character.

You obviously watch a lot of club football in Offaly. If you watch the same football I watch, how do you miss the abuse that Reynolds (like most small, decent forwards) gets? More often than not, he'll have a lad up-his-arse hitting him from behind (which, is far more cowardly) when trying to win the ball. And he wins more than his fair share. Now, I'm not doing either of the following:

a) Claiming that John Reynolds is an Inter-County half-forward
b) Claiming that John Reynolds is a typical, dirty-ball winner

Reynolds is a controversial selection at the best of times. His portrayal of the Shaper puts a lot of people off. But he's been around the County scene for a long-time now under a raft of different managers, while a lot of footballers have came and gone. Were they all wrong?

To label a Footballer as cowardly is as big an insult as you can give. They far prefer to be thought of a Selfish, Self-Obsessed or even plain useless. So, it's bad enough to publicly brand him a coward, but worse again when you can't really say why?

[Long John]

Magpie I know you take the hump when I or anybody criticise Reynolds as hes your fellow clubman. I think I made the point against Clare that Reynolds was a disaster for the simple reason he was hanging around looking for handy ball, ALL GAME. He kicked one point from play if memory serves correct and his man was involved about 8 or 9 of Clares scores because Reynolds was standing back hands on the hips complaining. He bottled out of a couple of tackles at a crucial stage in the game and then I see him pushing a Clare player while back pedalling away from him, now that to me is a coward. This game is only one example since you brought that game up.

You said yourself he is a "controversial selection", and your not wrong, Its ridiculous that he makes a starting line up. He has been a bit part player under most managers, in my opinion hes lucky to have got that much. As I have said he will do ok if hes in the full forward line, he'll pick up a ball here and there and split the posts, no questioning his poaching skills, but outside that he offers nothing.

You mention he gets abuse players any game he plays, well ask any player where that starts and you'll find a common trend that the niggling starts with Reynolds mouthing and trying to wind players up aswel as trying to be cute in pulling defenders jerseys and togs to try and get a yard on them. I know from time to time there are defenders who try rough up players but been quiet honest theres very little of that in the county.

In my opinion Deehan, Guilfoyle and O' Hara offer more than him.

[The Magpie]

Magpie I know you take the hump when I or anybody criticise Reynolds as hes your fellow clubman

I think if you trawl back through my posts, you won't see me defending John Reynolds too much. Also, I'm not the only one defending him here, so the suggestion that I'm blindly defending one of my clubmen doesn't really wash.

And nor do I have the hump

I have no problem with criticism when it's well founded. After the Offaly-Down game, I wasn't jumping to the defence of Scott Brady - was I?

I don't mind debate about how good or bad a footballer is or how well he did or didn't play. I'm also not comparing John Reynolds with any of his other clubmen (Deehan, O'Hara, etc). Finally, you can see that I don't have any problem in this thread with people ranking where they believe John Reynolds belongs amongst other forwards in Offaly.

To go back to the Clare game (although, that's not the issue), Reynolds was moved to the half-forward line some time into the game. You're right to an extent that his marker was very attack-minded and did contribute to some scores, but that was true of the entire Clare half-back line that day (and one of the corner-backs). They poured forward that day. However, when Offaly started to reel them in (late in the second-half) and when they started to punish Clare in the first-period in extra-time, Reynolds won a fierce amount of breaking-ball on the half-forward line. Almost every ball one was either through Brian Connor or Reynolds. So, I can't agree that he was looking for handy-ball all game.

However, that's really not all that relevant. I believe that this claim of him being cowardly is unfounded though. In fact, if there's a single other person using this board that also believes it, I'd be genuinely interested to hear why.

It's easy to say that a guy bottled-out of a couple of tackles in a game. But when? It's far too loose a claim.

Also, if this is the other criteria that ranks a player as cowardly

I see him pushing a Clare player while back pedalling away from him, now that to me is a coward.

then you've probably covered almost every footballer in the country. This is something that you'll see multiple times in every game.

Finally, there's an element of truth in this:

You mention he gets abuse players any game he plays, well ask any player where that starts and you'll find a common trend that the niggling starts with Reynolds mouthing and trying to wind players up aswel as trying to be cute in pulling defenders jerseys and togs to try and get a yard on them.

Personally, it's not something I like, but you can't deny that all of this isn't a massive part of competitive athletics. Also, why he gets the abuse is irrelvant - I was trying to make the point that he takes it and still wins plenty of ball - not the sign of a cowardly footballer.

[Black Spot]

Long John wrote:
You mention he gets abuse players any game he plays, well ask any player where that starts and you'll find a common trend that the niggling starts with Reynolds mouthing and trying to wind players up aswel as trying to be cute in pulling defenders jerseys and togs to try and get a yard on them.

.

Its not just john reynolds who mouths off to his marker and other players and as for pulling players jerseys there istnt to many players out there now at the top level who dont get involved in niggley stuff. Have you ever being at an ulster championship match trying to get space off the ball is a fair job in itself.

john reynolds didnt get his nickname as "shaper" for nothing evryone knows hes shaper but i wouldnt take that away from his footballing ability.I taught he was our best foward last year other than Nialler and he gives alot to Clara and to Offaly no one can question his commitment or pride and that for me is to of the best assets a player can posess.

[Long John]

Its not just john reynolds who mouths off to his marker and other players and as for pulling players jerseys there istnt to many players out there now at the top level who dont get involved in niggley stuff.

Totally agree, thats why I didnt get the logic in Magpie pointing out that Reynolds gets abuse any game he plays. My point was he does enough of the niggly stuff himself but doesnt back it up when somebody puts it to him.

Well we'll have to disagree, I stick by what I said and Ive heard the exact same from many other Offaly supporters and Clara supporters for that matter at club games. I wouldnt have him on my team anyway. He just isnt good enough.

[paulwatts]

at the end of the day long john , magpie and all the rest we all have different views and different opinions on players....and team selections, we all cant be right so some have to be wrong.
if i was to say to all of yee ''pick your team'' we would all probably be slightly contrasting.
i suppose the best way to look at it is to have the 15 which works best together rather than the 15 best players, as in the long run that will yield the best results.