General Election time

[Doon Massive]

General elections are great craic, this one may not be, as there is a lot riding on it!
We really need a complete system overhaul, maybe something similar to the American system (similar now, not the same )
One Elected figure head, who then "employs" professionals to the particular cabinet positions......rather than what we now have, lads like J Healey-Rae spouting scutter looking lost on Kildare street.

[bracknaghboy]

General elections are great craic, this one may not be, as there is a lot riding on it!
We really need a complete system overhaul, maybe something similar to the American system (similar now, not the same )
One Elected figure head, who then "employs" professionals to the particular cabinet positions......rather than what we now have, lads like J Healey-Rae spouting scutter looking lost on Kildare street.

One of the best posts ever!
The cabinet posts should held by experts in that particular area. Weirdos like Healy Rae should be confined to councils where they can rant about potholes and obscure local issues. The Dail should only be for dealing with the runnning of the country and major national issues.

[Bord na Mona man]

It might work...or it might not. The freedom to appoint experts might by stretched a little.

Look at happens in happens with the Seanad. Fellas that failed to get elected in the General Election get a plumb job there instead to pacify them. The Cabinet could end up being the same.

Imagine if at the 2007 election such a system existed.
Bertie might very well have appointed Ivor Callely, Eoghan Harris, Donie Cassidy, Paddy the Plasterer, Celia Larkin and the barman from Fagan's to ministerial posts.

[Doon Massive]

It might work...or it might not. The freedom to appoint experts might by stretched a little.

Look at happens in happens with the Seanad. Fellas that failed to get elected in the General Election get a plumb job there instead to pacify them. The Cabinet could end up being the same.

Imagine if at the 2007 election such a system existed.
Bertie might very well have appointed Ivor Callely, Eoghan Harris, Donie Cassidy, Paddy the Plasterer, Celia Larkin and the barman from Fagan's to ministerial posts.

Perhaps, but one would hope we would be a bit more careful now about choosing a leader. As the system now stands, most people will go for some fella who is a mighty man for turning up at funerals, or played a bit of junior B when he was younger.....there's not as much focus on the leader of the party. Whereas if there were a few national candidates, then hopefully the focus would be on the policies they have, track record, experience and so on.
Scrap the seanad.

The sight of J Healey-Rae literally shoving a guy out of the way during the opening of the bypass in Kerry a few weeks ago to make sure he was in the photo........

If all that fails, Berlusconi has some interesting idea's on how to fill a cabinet.

[bracknaghboy]

It might work...or it might not. The freedom to appoint experts might by stretched a little.

Obviously it would need some sort of minimum criteria attached. Example.... Minister for Heath would be a vastly experienced doctor with a knowledge how the HSE works not just one of the lads! It would have to be better then the present set up where cabinet members havn't a clue and are moved from post to post as they mess up. Them Healy Raes should be locked up in the interest of public safety

[corner back]

It might work...or it might not. The freedom to appoint experts might by stretched a little.

.... Minister for Heath would be a vastly experienced doctor with a knowledge how the HSE works :

Brendan Drumm would fill those criteria and his HSE was a disaster in my opinion.

On the larger point about changing the system i couldn't agree more. One solution given on Frontline a few weeks back that half TDs would be voted directly and the other half of votes are put towards a list. i.e. you vote for the party, they nominate the TD. In this case the TDs are looking after the national interest rathering than pandering to local interests.

[Plain of the Herbs]

The problem with having a Doctor as Minister for Health means that he/she would have a conflict of interest when negotiating with the Medical Council. With so many vested interests looking out for themselves, Health is more about allocating scarce resources than anything else. And James Reilly certainly has a conflict of interest having negotiated on behalf of the Medical Coincil previously.

John O'Connell was a Doctor who, as minister for health in the early 90s brought in the patients' charter which left Nurses very underprotected.

I would agree with the general tone of your post though - that it is a big problem that you don't need to know anything about the particular area in order to be a Minister. George Hook often makes the point that "everyone is promoted to the level of their incompetence" and this is what has happened with the current government.

Obviously it would need some sort of minimum criteria attached. Example.... Minister for Heath would be a vastly experienced doctor with a knowledge how the HSE works not just one of the lads! It would have to be better then the present set up where cabinet members havn't a clue and are moved from post to post as they mess up. Them Healy Raes should be locked up in the interest of public safety

[turk]

Sorry, my mistake. I think Hyland was the Laois TD from back then?

It was - Liam Hyland - he went on to be an MEP.

[turk]

If Cowan runs (and he will) and FG without Enright, it will be 3 FF AND 2 FG, no change.

Even with a good swing against the government, and FF's strong loyal core vote being part of a 60% turnout, they'd be doing tremendously well to win three seats, I think

[TheManFromFerbane]

Here is my idea for how our system should be setup.

Redraw your constituencies so that they are more reflective of the current population.

Elect your local government

The chairman of that local government then becomes that area's representative in the Dáil.

After the local elections have been run, candidates would then go forward for specific ministerial positions; there would then be a second vote, which would happen shortly after the initial vote. People would argue that this would be a pain having two votes, my view on that is we're doing something here that should last us 4-5 years and a month of campaigning and voting wouldn't be the worst thing.

The reason I think this would work is, after all is said and done:
You would be left with a local governments doing direct work for their locality, with a bigger budget, and the powers the implement those changes.
When matters arose in the Dáil that needed voting on, they would be voted on first at local level by the local government and the chairman of that local government would then cast the vote in the Dáil. Thus each vote being done on what local governments felt was the best for the nation rather than stuff getting through based on party political reasons.
When Ministers were running for office, they would do so based on their own aptitudes and abilities and would be voted for based on those, and their manifesto. Once in Government they would have the power to implement those changes but with the chairs of the local governments providing the checks and balances.

The main goal out of this is to remove the party political aspect and all the sh*t that comes with it. No more would you get a solicitor being you're Minister for Finance (despite the fact that I actually think Lenihan is playing the hand he was given fairly well). You'd have local governments working for their local communities with the financial backing to do so.

I can think of a few negatives against this plan but I'm sure more people will do that for me here so let’s air them out and see what we get!

[turk]

The only way Cowen won't run is if he is toppled by his own party as leader.
Meaning we'd need to have a budget, a FF leadership contest and an election all done and dusted before any sort of stability could be restored to the economy.

A few disgruntled back benchers, who expect to be voted out, may heave against him, hoping to benefit from any bounce in public support a change of leader may bring.

Just another point I'd like to add - this disgruntled group of FF back benchers must surely be the most odious bunch of pansies to raise their heads up squeaking in a while. Take the likes of John McGuinness - he lost out in a reshuffle a couple of years back and has been whining to whoever will listen ever since. Now while I wouldn't be one that would have a lot of time for the current government, but they are there and getting on with it despite whatever criticisms are rightly leveled at them. However the likes of McGuinness and Ned O'Keefe are just piping up blowing air, while they continually vote to support every budgetary measure and bill that has gone on. At least Jim McDaid abstained on the cervical vaccine bill (when in fairness, he should have voted against it if he disagreed). None of these tools raised their head to whimper at the FF parliamentary meeting on Monday evening!

The biggest pencilcock of all has to be FF's Tom Kitt. He was passed over for a ministry when Cowen did his first reshuffle after taking over as Taoiseach and went into such a sulk that he decided he would retire from politics at the next election. There he was on the news on Monday telling the media that there should be a change of leadership in FF but that he wouldn't go looking to get nomination for a change of leadership, and also he would vote for the budget and also for any votes in confidence for the Taoiseach in the Dáil! When asked if he would continue in politics if there was a change of FF leadership he said he would consider it! What a baby!!

[Lone Shark]

Here is my idea for how our system should be setup.

Redraw your constituencies so that they are more reflective of the current population.

Elect your local government

The chairman of that local government then becomes that area's representative in the Dáil.

After the local elections have been run, candidates would then go forward for specific ministerial positions; there would then be a second vote, which would happen shortly after the initial vote. People would argue that this would be a pain having two votes, my view on that is we're doing something here that should last us 4-5 years and a month of campaigning and voting wouldn't be the worst thing.

The reason I think this would work is, after all is said and done:
You would be left with a local governments doing direct work for their locality, with a bigger budget, and the powers the implement those changes.
When matters arose in the Dáil that needed voting on, they would be voted on first at local level by the local government and the chairman of that local government would then cast the vote in the Dáil. Thus each vote being done on what local governments felt was the best for the nation rather than stuff getting through based on party political reasons.
When Ministers were running for office, they would do so based on their own aptitudes and abilities and would be voted for based on those, and their manifesto. Once in Government they would have the power to implement those changes but with the chairs of the local governments providing the checks and balances.

The main goal out of this is to remove the party political aspect and all the sh*t that comes with it. No more would you get a solicitor being you're Minister for Finance (despite the fact that I actually think Lenihan is playing the hand he was given fairly well). You'd have local governments working for their local communities with the financial backing to do so.

I can think of a few negatives against this plan but I'm sure more people will do that for me here so let’s air them out and see what we get!

I accept that it's easy to pick holes in things instead of being positive, however I do think that the problem with this system is that at least in America, the cabinet is picked on the grounds of being the type of people that will fit into an overall strategy. What you appear to be proposing is that each ministry is dealt with individually. I would guess that the upshot of this would be that the winner of the Finance Ministry election would be somebody who promises a right wing, low tax, low government interference administration - while the winner of the health, education and social welfare ministries would be the candidates who propose the most generous, all encompassing and ultimately costly plans. After all, if I can vote for a finance minister who will cut my taxes, and an education minister who will reduce the pupil-teacher ration and eliminate all third level fees and charges, well then I feel like I can win on both counts - until those two people start to work together.

You would have to have direct elections for the head of government, and then I guess that person could stand with their candidates for the various ministries behind them, suggested in advance. You would also love to see these people stand on the basis of their budget in 1, 3 and 5 years time, based on a fixed and agreed set of parameters, rather than a wishy washy manifesto promising everything. That way people know what they're voting for.

[TheManFromFerbane]

I would guess that the upshot of this would be that the winner of the Finance Ministry election would be somebody who promises a right wing, low tax, low government interference administration - while the winner of the health, education and social welfare ministries would be the candidates who propose the most generous, all encompassing and ultimately costly plans.

Fair point, I still think it would be the best idea but ya, if they had to announce their plans based on prjected budgets then that would tighten it up a bit more.

[Lone Shark]

I would guess that the upshot of this would be that the winner of the Finance Ministry election would be somebody who promises a right wing, low tax, low government interference administration - while the winner of the health, education and social welfare ministries would be the candidates who propose the most generous, all encompassing and ultimately costly plans.

Fair point, I still think it would be the best idea but ya, if they had to announce their plans based on prjected budgets then that would tighten it up a bit more.

No accountability then though. You end up with a big blame game - can you picture James O'Reilly as minister for health, duelling with Charlie McCreevy in the Finance office? Each would spend so much time castigating each other that they'd never get anything done.

[SearingDrive]

There is a lot of speculation on the make up of the next Dail, after the next election. It will be an FG/Labour coalition, with Fianna Fail taking a big hit from the electorate. It will be interesting to see how Eamonn Gilmore performs in Government, now that he has to deliver a policy, rather than the vague populist notions he speaks at present. As for Labour being the biggest party, well that's not going to happen. Their candidate in Donegal SW was eliminated early in the count, they won't get a TD elected in Laois/Offaly as they have no real organisation, the same can be said of other rural constituencies. Their best chanaces of success are in the urban constituencies and the commuter belt.
As for SF in Laois/Offaly no way will they get a seat. Some posters suggest that we will have a lot of independents elected on various local issues, giving them an influence over the Government in crucial votes. The Dail is a national parliament dealing with national issues, local issues will be little use for a government dealing with the 4 year plan to get us out of the current black hole. Not sure if a plethora of independents will contribute much to national policy.
A Government with a decisive majority should hopefully emerge after the election. We could see Fianna Fail out of office for 2 terms, as I think it may take them a while to recover from a drubbing at the polls. Changing the leader before the election will be like changing the captain of the Titanic before the collision, the iceberg can't be avoided. The backbenchers are nervous about their seats at the moment, hence concern over the OAPs.

Enda Kenny will be Taoiseach, but given his poor performance on economic matters in the media, some in FG must be concerned over his performance at leaders question time and in media interviews. Enda did a good job in pulling FG into shape after the 2002 election blitz, and has made them serious contenders for Government. With a different leader could they get that elusive overall majority as the largest party for the first time since the foundation of the state?

Interesting times ahead as the old civil war divisions are eroded.