Championship Odds

[Lone Shark]

Its a bit much to suggest that Edenderry, which has a population of 4000, has 10% of offaly's playing pool.

I didn't - I said potential playing pool. Ye have 10% of the population, and I see no reason to believe that ye wouldn't also have 10% of the Adult males 18-35 years of age.

Now if ye were to have 10% of the playing pool, ye'd have five adult teams - no-one suggests that that is realistic, you only get that in the huge Dublin clubs like Na Fianna and Kilmacud.

What I am saying is that to only be able to field two adult teams - and it seems ye're not finding it easy to do even that - is a poor return. The Ferbane example mightn't be legitimate, because we are 40 miles or so away after all, but the Ballyfore one is. A thriving rugby club in Edenderry town is just as much of an alternative to GAA for a Ballyfore player as it is for an Edenderry player. Ye go to the same schools, and I assume other than having a boundary, there is no material difference between the two - so why can they field two teams of a pick of 1,000 or so while ye only get the same out of 4,000?

Anyway, surely if your playing base is 100 or so - there should be enough for three teams in that? Even if 25-30 are minors, thats still 70 adults - or 23 per team. No wonder you have trouble mobilising lads if I was to join the club and find 70 lads ahead of me in the queue for one of 30 slots in either adult team.

[True Red]

First of all Ballyfore pick would be way less than 1000.There is a big difference between CSO census figures and actual GAA playing 18-35 yr olds.You can talk about "potential playing pools" all ye want but the figures at ground level are a lot less than they ones you are floating about.

Ballyfore's 2nd team is junior b and they are a struggling junior b side full of 15-16yr olds on the fringes of the intermediate set-up and 37-45 yr old hatchet men with serious chips on their shoulders.They dont train and they only turn up to fulfill their fixtures.Whereas Edenderry's 2nd team is competitive.Its an unfair comparison.

No wonder you have trouble mobilising lads if I was to join the club and find 70 lads ahead of me in the queue for one of 30 slots in either adult team.

You have hit upon the kernal of the problem.Lads just out of minor find out that they aint going to feature on either team and so they lose interest.They turn to other sports so they can get a game and therein lies your problem if you went about organising a 3rd team.Their loyalties have changed and they dont want to hear anything from the GAA which probably shunned them a few years previous.

[Lone Shark]

First of all Ballyfore pick would be way less than 1000.There is a big difference between CSO census figures and actual GAA playing 18-35 yr olds.You can talk about "potential playing pools" all ye want but the figures at ground level are a lot less than they ones you are floating about.

I'll admit I had no idea what Ballyfore's population was like - I guessed 1,000, which would be roughly that of Doon. (You realise that by 1,000 I meant total population, not 18-35 year old men - Ballyfore should have about 100 18-35 y/o men, which would mean two teams)

Ballyfore's 2nd team is junior b and they are a struggling junior b side full of 15-16yr olds on the fringes of the intermediate set-up and 37-45 yr old hatchet men with serious chips on their shoulders.They dont train and they only turn up to fulfill their fixtures.Whereas Edenderry's 2nd team is competitive.Its an unfair comparison.

But surely in the spirit of the GAA there should be a team there for all those that either just want to keep playing or aren't good enough to get on to a "competitive" team. Nobody likes to see ould lads in it just for the spot of violence, but in most cases they just keep playing because they don't want to stop. From what you're saying it sounds like in Edenderry they have to because they won't be good enough.

No wonder you have trouble mobilising lads if I was to join the club and find 70 lads ahead of me in the queue for one of 30 slots in either adult team.

You have hit upon the kernal of the problem.Lads just out of minor find out that they aint going to feature on either team and so they lose interest.They turn to other sports so they can get a game and therein lies your problem if you went about organising a 3rd team.Their loyalties have changed and they dont want to hear anything from the GAA which probably shunned them a few years previous.

Is this not the main reason why a third team is vital??? Even if the 22 year olds have given up, why not focus on getting all those lads coming out of minor in 2006? Put them in a team with all the lads in their mid to late thirties, and just fulfil the fixtures. The lads stay interested, somewhere in there you might get a late developer who goes on to be a decent club player in his mid twenties, and the lads are happy to stay involved because it's a grand thing to do of a Sunday and they can go for a few jars afterwards. You have a ready made list of players to fill in when the Juniors are stuck for a player or two for a league game, and more people in the town are part of the GAA club and thus following the seniors and steering their younger brothers and kids down the GAA route.

Above all, the GAA is about taking part - club and county success aside for a minute, surely a gang of fifteen fellas playing junior B and being utterly useless at it is a hell of a lot better than 7 or 8 of them off playing rugby/soccer and the other half in the pub watching Celtic.

[Doon Massive]

population of 1,000 in Doon?
With our small catchment area?

Madness, the only reason Martins is so packed on weekends is because of all the Ferbane blow-in's

[True Red]

The sad part is that they would rather go off and play a soccer/rugby match or skull pints in the pub than play a junior b championship match.

[ballymanabroad]

It is an awful lot easier to play a match from the comfort of a bar stool than to put yourself on the line and actually tog out.

[Lone Shark]

The sad part is that they would rather go off and play a soccer/rugby match or skull pints in the pub than play a junior b championship match.

It is an awful lot easier to play a match from the comfort of a bar stool than to put yourself on the line and actually tog out.

I'm not sure about this. As somebody who has had the unpleasant experience of trying to book pitches for lads to have a kickaround five-a-side game of soccer of an evening, or somebody who put together a "social" game of gaelic football that got 22 players and another 5 or 6 that would have been there but for other commitments, I've seen first hand the appetite for exercise and a bit of a run out among lads in their twenties and thirties who are not necessarily natural athletes or skilled ball players. Where the GAA falls down in this is that junior B invariably involves little or no training and half the lads not starting and getting fifteen minutes play every second week. Or worse again, turning up for training and doing their bit only for some senior guy who's been injured or some returning exile who can play ball being parachuted in when championship rolls around.

The thing to remember is that people want exercise and a bit of fun. So if you put together a panel where you are being fair to everyone rather than bald-headed going out to win at all costs, no nepotism, and a chance for lads to train together just to get a little bit of a run and feel like they're doing something, then I think you'll get enthusiasm. Ideally a panel of 21-22 is perfect. It's easy to say that a quarter of the lads tend not to show up on any given week, but I think that if a guy knows that there are a few mates depending on him, and that there is a single digit shirt waiting for him as opposed to something in the twenties, then I think absenteeism becomes less of an issue. Finding someone to organise everything can be a bit of a pain in the bee-hind all right, but if you can get fellas to take on a bit themselves, then the workload can be a lot more manageable.

Again I understand it's very easy spout this stuff from a Dublin standpoint when you're 80 miles away from the home club, but it does amaze me that more clubs in Offaly don't have "social" teams - the equivalent of junior 6 to junior 12 up here. (I'm not joking - 12 junior divisions on top of two senior and two intermediate.)

[Seán Boyle Ó Rathallaigh]

All fine sentiment there LS but I think the reality here is that you just can't get 21-22 lads who are willing to admit that they are Junior B standard. Some believe they are Inter County standard! and when not picked to play on the Club first or even second team the first statement when requested to drop back a grade is "I will in me bollix play Junior B, I'm better than that!"

[Mighty Pair O' Hands]

I've seen first hand the appetite for exercise and a bit of a run out among lads in their twenties and thirties who are not necessarily natural athletes or skilled ball players. Where the GAA falls down in this is that junior B invariably involves little or no training and half the lads not starting and getting fifteen minutes play every second week. Or worse again, turning up for training and doing their bit only for some senior guy who's been injured or some returning exile who can play ball being parachuted in when championship rolls around.

Agree stronglywith the above with one additional point - As a recent junior b player myself, the worst thing is training without any idea when the next league/championship game is on - the first couple of weeks in April are grand - grab the boots for the first league game without having set foot in the field, play the match and afterwards everyone commits to training - "ah sure it'll be light enough- bit of drills and then backs and forwards" - six weeks later without a game and training attendance is back to single figures. Then the weekend the big game is on - notified only the Tuesday before - 3 of the lads can't make it because they have booked a weekend drinking in Kilkenny. Soccer has the benefit of regular games every weekend with no threat of cancellation because of players playing with the county etc - how this knocks on to junior B I have never understood but it still happens.

[The Biff]

Speaking NOT from a recent player perspective (not even Junior Z), I can still understand the frustration that club players must feel about the lack of actual games on the schedule.

I strongly disagree with the "shelving" of club games due to lads being committed to county teams of various standards. This completely undermines the off-quoted mantra that "the Club is the heart of the GAA". If so, then the club games would have to be the most important, but of course they are not.

It would make more sense to play the interclub League (or some other lesser competition) in the Spring and Summer months, when the "stars" are not available. Insist that clubs must go ahead with fixtures despite missing their best players. These games are for the benefit of the rest of the club players.

Then if the County Championship is the most important, play that when the star players ARE prepared to give the club the first priority.

Bottom line: there must be regular club games throughout the Summer for ALL club players, of all grades and standards. (Heck! maybe even old clapped-out banjaxed-knees unfit fat feckers like me).

[Bogman]

I agree with Lone Shark that the GAA should cater more for social games. Sean Kelly also made some such statement a few years ago!

I'm in my 40's but I'd love to tog out for a Junior Z team just for the craic. I'd even give hurling a lash if there were teams of a low enough standard.

I'd be prepared to pay for insurance or helmets or whatever else is needed to cover the club's liability.

I can play other games I'm interested in on a social basis - various racquet sports and soccer. Why not the games that I'm most interested in and enjoy the most?!

Also maybe if there were more people playing socially we might get away from the idea that every club championship match is a life or death matter whatever the grade.

[TheManFromFerbane]

If ten lads can get together to play a five-a-side soccer match on a smaller pitch with smaller goals, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to play a ten-a-side gaa game on a smaller pitch with smaller goals against other like minded individuals, (be they from outside the club or not). But there is an old saying "You'll get nothing done if you sit around on your fat arse just talking about it!" Wise words I think you'll agree.

Participation is what all sport is about, the sky sports of this world should be there to inspire the viewer to go out and practice what he/she has just seen their favourite sports star do, not just to sit there in slobbery amazement and wish they could do it! And even if they can't then what the hell about it, lets all go down for the craic, have a game and enjoy ourselves.

I'm fortunate enough to be considered, (by some people but not all!!) good enough to play senior club football but i dread to think that a day will come when I will no longer be able to enjoy playing the sport I love just because I've gotten older a bit too slow. I would hope that there will always be a place where I can play my game with people who consider it their game also.

[juteman]

SBO'R is right Edenderry excellent value.They are 1 of 3 teams left with the pedigree who are capable of beating Rhode(also Clara and Tullamore).These will not fear Rhode and will not be beaten before they take the pitch. Rhode will also be only fearful of these 3.
Also unless there is an exceptional side very few 'new' teams win championships i.e either Rhode,Tullamore, Clara or Edenderry will win the championship.
Clara are good value in the perceived easier side of the draw at 8/1.

In the hurling Birr will win and a double with a football selection would be best value.

[Lone Shark]

SBO'R is right Edenderry excellent value.They are 1 of 3 teams left with the pedigree who are capable of beating Rhode(also Clara and Tullamore).These will not fear Rhode and will not be beaten before they take the pitch. Rhode will also be only fearful of these 3.
Also unless there is an exceptional side very few 'new' teams win championships i.e either Rhode,Tullamore, Clara or Edenderry will win the championship.
Clara are good value in the perceived easier side of the draw at 8/1.

I didn't realise the sides of the draw were made? I thought that was this monday night? I guess you heard it was Clara/Shamrocks vs Ballycumber/Brigids then. Anyone verify this?

New teams have to start somewhere - Garrycastle were at nothing in Westmeath up until a few years ago, and if I'm not mistaken Cealltra had hardly ever come out of Galway before they won the All Ireland.

I'm not disagreeing straight out, and I appreciate what you're saying about a lack of fear, but that doesn't change the fact that Edenderry haven't beaten a club that would be considered top 5 or 6 in Offaly for a long time. To start with Rhode would be a big start.


Regarding ManFromFerbane's points, a lot of it is to do with facilities, refereeing and a few other things. People play a lot of five a side soccer, but the facilities are there. To play ten a side gaelic still requires a big pitch, at least half of full size. Also, since rules are a lot more "ambiguous" to say the least, a referee would really be a help. Soccer rules are a lot more straightforward. Can you imagine trying to referee the tackle with no neutral ref?

That said, if I was in an area where a patch of grass existed that could be used, I'd be doing it. Wait till I get home to Ferbane - then the wheels will be set in motion!

[Hyper]

All the champioship semi's will be decided by open draw on Monday night