2010 Offaly Games Structures

[club125]

How did the 2010 proposals for the Football and Hurling Championships go last night at the Co. Board meeting.......................Were they accepted and were there any changes?

[Lone Shark]

The clubs voted for six team groups, with the top four into the quarter finals and fifth and sixth playing relegation playoffs. This applies in both codes, so even more pressure on dual clubs with two more rounds of football to find.

Strong possibility being mooted of games during late June, though clubs can appeal if they have players sitting the LC - though a postponed fixture will most likely lead to two games in a week at a later stage.

Draw will be seeded as well - finalists first, semis second, quarter finalists 3rd/3rd and 4th, open for the remainder. So that will be:

1st seeds - Clara/Rhode and Tullamore/KK
2nd Seeds - Erin Rovers/Shamrocks and Birr/Coolderry
3rd Seeds - Ferbane/Tubber and Kinnitty/Rynaghs/Clareen/Shinrone

[club125]

Sounds good, experimentation is fine and a lot was learned from the formats last year, hoepfully this one works and we can get some consistency from now on

[Lone Shark]

Personally I still would have gone for three teams qualifying rather than four, with the top team making the semis since it would have gone a long way towards reducing dead rubbers in the final round. As it is now any team with three wins out of four will have nothing to play for in the last round, and certainly won't be risking injury or promoting players from junior teams or anything like that.

That said, the clubs voted for this, so in the spirit of democracy, the people have no right to be wrong I suppose!

[TheManFromFerbane]

I take it you don't come from a dual club, club 125?

This is a f*cking joke as far as I'm concerned. We have five lads that play senior hurling and football and a few other lads who play junior as well.

I don't know how we're supposed to deal with this. Same goes for Tullamore, Shamrocks, Pullogh and Clara to an extent I suppose.

Worrying about player burn out?? my hole.

[Lone Shark]

I take it you don't come from a dual club, club 125?

This is a f*cking joke as far as I'm concerned. We have five lads that play senior hurling and football and a few other lads who play junior as well.

I don't know how we're supposed to deal with this. Same goes for Tullamore, Shamrocks, Pullogh and Clara to an extent I suppose.

Worrying about player burn out?? my hole.

In fairness, one game a week over the course of the summer will not lead to burnout - that wouldn't be my fundamental concern. God knows a lot of managers fill weeks off with challenge games anyway. To me the burnout issue would only kick in if managers fail to make allowance for dual players.

The problem is the huge disadvantage that this confers on dual clubs trying to finalise a team and getting players working together. During the group stages, Rhode, Walsh Island or Croghan (for example) can play a game, come back midweek and work on what went wrong, develop more team cohesion and create game plans to improve matters for the next time out. Meanwhile in Ferbane, Shamrocks, Tullamore and a few others, half the team is missing because they're gone hurling for a week. By the time they come back in, the team only has one proper session left before warming down for the next big game, and even that is quite often missed because players have bumps and bruises and need to rest, not even counting real injury.

Incidentally, I've just found out that this is now the case the whole way down along the line - intermediate and junior grades will also be two groups of six, as per the senior set up. Junior B will be subject to the number of teams, which is not always confirmed at this time of year.

[club125]

One game a week is not burnout whether it be hurling or football.

The burnout comes when clubs get greedy and play a good minor at senior level in both codes, so that players ends up playing 4 competitive games in 2 weeks and is also expected to spread himself to train with all teams.

This has now been voted in, Clubs must row in behind it. Players want games, so they will get them. Managers must deflate their ego's and allow the sharing of players across the codes. The dual player problem effects most clubs however I do accept that a club that is both hurling and footballing at Snr level do have a harder job.

Other codes are offering a game a week and that is what we all say is their attraction, however when we get into full swing with our games and a player get injured we blame the system and want more of a break between the games.

Gaelic games are now squad games, therefore you roll with the punches and put out the best available team to you and not make life awkward for everyone and look to tget the game called off.

[TheManFromFerbane]

Lads, you can't tell me that playing 4 senior club championship games in a row wouldn't lead to burn out. The knocks that lads get don't get a chance to heal and just get worse and by the end of the year lads are as fit as a fiddle for you, could run a marathon if you asked them to, but they're stuck to the ground. You'll get away with one or two lads like that, not a third or more of your team.

And player burn out isn't just for young lads. It's for lads with jobs, mortgages, wives and kids. It's pretty well agreed now that club teams are putting in about the same number of sessions as county teams (although they may not be being as ridgid outside of training as the successful county teams are). But yet everyone seems to accept that a player can't play senior county hurling and football together. Well if things stay going the way their going players will have to choose between senior hurling and senior football.

[leinsterman]

Take some of point's on ok. but i cant think of any player that will be burn out in offaly. it's not as if we
are setting the world on fire at the moment at county level. look if your county or club are winning you
never get tired or burnout do you.just look at king henry from kilkenny and ballyhale or when birr and offaly
were winning allireland's no player was burnout . if you not playing a match you are training that weekend
anyway i just think it's a excuse for club's if they fail to win something. (prove of this) i was sitting in the stand
in o'connor park in this year's county final hurling final. i was sitting beside to nice men from kk .near the end they
start to give out about the kk players and said if some of them didn't play in last sunday's juinor football final they
would have been better today bull. if they had to win they would have been great footballer's and hurler's.
so don't give me this burnout story. sorry for the rant

[Lone Shark]

Lads, you can't tell me that playing 4 senior club championship games in a row wouldn't lead to burn out.

Yes and no. It does in GAA, but for all the wrong reasons. There is no obvious reason on Earth why club rugby or soccer teams can play week in and week out but GAA players can't, or at least it wouldn't be obvious to anyone who doesn't understand GAA. Those who do, know exactly why it doesn't work - because dual players have at least two bosses (probably more, if they play county/college/underage/interfirms) and none of those bosses work together. They all need the player to peak at different times, so they all train the player differently, none of them backs down and says that "you've done enough this week, skip my session tonight", simply because they know that the other guy won't do the same.

A lot of GAA managers remain the same in that no training counts with them unless it's been done on their watch.

Having said that, that's still no solution unless managers trust each other. It's like the classic game show dilemma. You have two strangers, both offered a prize fund. Each person is asked do they want to share the prize, or take it all. If both people choose share, that's what happens. If one says share and the other says take, then the taker gets it all. If both say take, nobody gets anything.

It's similar with players - if managers work together, a player could be fit and sharp for two teams in summer - but if one plays fair while the other takes his pound of flesh at every opportunity, the sad thing is that human nature dictates that it's easier to let down the rational guy, so the manager willing to share loses. If the two pull out of him, as often happens, then the player gets worn to a nub and is way below his best for both teams.


After all that, I'm not sure of the answer, but I'm convinced that there is a way for players to play both.

[club125]

1. The Sharks points above highlight the need for a mindset change in the power given to our so called managers.
2. Take Mickey Harte, he trusts his players to train with their clubs until the clocks go back in march then he goes 2 nights a week with the County
3. Tyrone Club payers play championship matches right up to the week before Tyrone are out, one could say this strategy has cost Tyrone two All-Irelands in recent years with injuries picked up in Club games but with the same token one could ay the sames strategy has won them 3.
4. A of managers only seek the clap on the back from the big win and they will be very pushy to achieve this, as has been said above
5. Clubs and Counties need to start setting the agenda and liaise with schools and colleges etc.
6. Apply consistent and fair methods of training and coacing across all clubs, schools and county teams in Offaly along with more REGULAR games will mean more players. Bigger pick, better teams, more competitive

Paul O'Kelly actually wanted to implement all of this and more in his time........Where would we be now if he was given the chance.

Offaly Co. Board is currently preparing a Strategic Plan to tie in with the excellent plan prepared at National Level (Strategic Plan and Vision 2009 - 20115). There will be no vision in the Offaly plan, they are only ticking a box here and going through the motions beacause they have been instrucuted to prepare a plan by Leinster Co.

No plan of real vision will be created, it is a real pity because we need one now more than ever. Our Administration strucutres need an overhaul, there is far too much duplication of work, too few doing too little and some people despite their own best intentions are not suitably qualified for the positions they hold.

If Offaly is to change, we need a REAL plan, an open mind to overhaul the system and attract new talent into all levels of County Administration. We need horses for courses here, we have a huge number of professional people in Offaly with an interest that would get involved if the structure was right. If we have the right people with fresh thinking and lots of hard work everthing else will fall into place.

Is anyone here aware that the County are formulating a Plan at present?

[TheManFromFerbane]

Fair enough, I'm obviously in the minority here but I still think it's wrong. There will be dual players who, come the end of the group stages, won't be able to fart, never mind sprint for a ball. Also, the clubs who don't put as much emphasis on both codes are going to have 13 days to prepare for their next round when really the dual clubs will only have six. IMO it's a punishment for clubs and players who try and keep to the spirit of the GAA and keep playing both codes.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Hmmm! The Intermediate championship consisted of thirteen clubs this year, and I presume Shinrone will be going up having won the Junior. What do they propose to do, relegate two to Junior? They'd have to relegate two from Junior 'A' as well, and the Junior relegation series is turning into a bit of a saga at this stage.

Incidentally, I hear rumours of a proposed divorce between Kilcormac and Killoughey. Is there anything concrete behind there, or is it just a knee-jerk reaction to County Final defeat around the Blue Ball?

Incidentally, I've just found out that this is now the case the whole way down along the line - intermediate and junior grades will also be two groups of six, as per the senior set up. Junior B will be subject to the number of teams, which is not always confirmed at this time of year.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

This is a welcome development, at least the system has been changed in a way that certainly improves upon last year. No doubt there will still be a few dead rubber games but there should be greatly reduced upon 2009, I can easily imagine 3 or 4 teams in danger of the relegation zone in each group with two rounds of games remaining. Lone Shark's suggestion has it's merits also so it'll be interesting to see how 2010 progresses.

Does anybody know what the situation is with reagrds how the quarter final draws are seeded, is it 1st .v. 4th and 2nd .v.3rd?

Incidentally, I hear rumours of a proposed divorce between Kilcormac and Killoughey. Is there anything concrete behind there, or is it just a knee-jerk reaction to County Final defeat around the Blue Ball?

I'd be amazed if this was true and more so if it came to pass but with some of the personalities involved in that club then who knows. Has anybody else heard of this?

[Aweflee]

Incidentally, I hear rumours of a proposed divorce between Kilcormac and Killoughey. Is there anything concrete behind there,

[/quote]

No.