All-Ireland Senior Hurling Final

[athlumneyboy]

Tommy Walsh plays to the limit. Nearest we have is Derek Molloy, only Molloy spends too much time on the wrong side of the limit. When Oakley took that shot against Wexford we had noone to make their mark. Training in Kilkenny is so competitive and leads to an aggression that most referees feel free to let go.

Georgio One you got it right about Training in Kilkenny was down at a seesion the week before the agression was unreal Cody was ref he let them at it blow no frees this whats make Kilkenny they team they are. The are born winners will bring the game to the limit and sometimes over it but will never give up unlike Offaly.

[Bord na Mona man]

Georgio One you got it right about Training in Kilkenny was down at a seesion the week before the agression was unreal Cody was ref he let them at it blow no frees

Not 100% true.
Cody blows for over carrying or the ball going out of play!

[athlumneyboy]

i was talking about Physical contact etc he harding up his players.

[bracknaghboy]

Personally, I'm a bit tired of this constant talk about Kilkenny (especially Walsh) playing on the "edge". What edge? There is no edge. Takling an oponent is either a foul or not. Hitting across arms, legs, wrists, grabbing masks, throwing hurleys and wild swinging are all offences and yet Walsh gets away with it most of the time. He was given a yellow in Tullamore V Galway for striking an opponent on the terrace siude after 15mins. Striking carries a straight red but the ref didn't have the balls to give it to him. I fear all this talk about Walsh and Kilkenny in terms of striking is going to mean that from now on they will get away with everything and anything because everybody (including a good few on here) has this notion that its only "playing on the edge" and thats OK.

[Georgio1]

Bracknaghboy, you go on bout living in the past, the picture contains a man who played a couple of league games for Offaly?! (Albeit good ones!

Tis not Tommy Walsh's fault, its the referees and their umpires. That is the edge we are talking about, he pushes them to make a decision, and more often they dont. Fairer to say then that the bigger teams have a advantage in terms of lack of punishment by referees?

[Lone Shark]

Bracknaghboy, you go on bout living in the past, the picture contains a man who played a couple of league games for Offaly?! (Albeit good ones!

Tis not Tommy Walsh's fault, its the referees and their umpires. That is the edge we are talking about, he pushes them to make a decision, and more often they dont. Fairer to say then that the bigger teams have a advantage in terms of lack of punishment by referees?

This is the nub of the issue really. Tommy Walsh is a divisive character simply because we all know he pushes things as far as he can in order to win. There is something to admire at something to disrespect in there in equal measure. However this shouldn't be an issue, simply because the problem at the heart of it all is the fact that he is policed by different standards to other players. I don't know how he managed to get away without receiving a red card in the game in Tullamore this year against Galway, but it's very fair to say that at least 90% of other players would have walked for similar offences. I don't know if that's a Kilkenny thing or a subconscious "let's go easy on the small lad" kind of thing, but right here is the problem - he gets away with things, and that frustrates players. Of course I'm not excusing what Benny Dunne did and even if Walsh was going at him in whatever way, Dunne still had to get red.

My point is that if players know that deep down, even if this little fecker is caught, he's still going to get away with it, then they will lash out occasionally.

Also it would be easier for neutrals to admire Walsh if he suffered the consequences of his actions occasionally. He'll never be seen by anyone but Kilkenny people as a true great as long as he's seen to be judged by a different rulebook to everyone else.

[bracknaghboy]

All true from LS.

This won't help: http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=117529

[GreatDayForTheParish]

He'll never be seen by anyone but Kilkenny people as a true great as long as he's seen to be judged by a different rulebook to everyone else.

A ridiculous assertion to make considering it can never be proven and all the evidence points to the exact opposite.

Tommy Walsh is 26 years old, his national honours in the game of hurling (so far) are as following:

6 All-Ireland Senior Hurling medals.
6 Leinster Hurling medals.
2 Under-21 All-Ireland Hurling medals.
4 National League Hurling medals.
2 Leinster Under-21 medals.
1 Leinster Minor medal.
6 All-Star awards (soon to be 7, all of them won consecutively, with awards won in defence, midfield and attack)
1 All-Ireland Colleges medal
1 Junior Colleges medal
Feile na nGael medal.
3 Railway Cup medals
4 Walsh Cup medals

In addition to the above, he is a certainty for the 2009 Hurler of the Year award.


Lone Shark, I am not from Kilkenny nor do I have any family connections to that county. I consider him a true great of the game and when one considers the above honours, especially the All-Star awards, it is evident that many more from outside of Kilkenny also happen to consider him a great of the game. He is quite simply a fantastic, gifted player and long may he continue to hurl.
Kilkenny are lucky to have him.

[Lone Shark]

He'll never be seen by anyone but Kilkenny people as a true great as long as he's seen to be judged by a different rulebook to everyone else.

A ridiculous assertion to make considering it can never be proven and all the evidence points to the exact opposite.

Of course there is evidence. Look at the match in Tullamore this year and tell me that he didn't deserve to be sent off at least twice over. Tell me that he received the correct punishment for the pull across Diarmuid Lyng. Tell me that he shouldn't have been sent off for his fight with Eoin Kelly in the league against Waterford (albeit Kelly should have gone too). Above all, tell me that his tackling technique of going in neck high, or his helicopter swipe back at a pursuing player every time he runs out with a ball isn't dangerous play that should be sanctioned.

You'll note here that I'm leaving out all the hearsay stuff, the kind of thing which Benny Dunne supposedly retaliated to - I'm sticking to the stuff we all see or have seen.

Of course this stuff goes on, but the point is that generally, other players get punished, at least more often than not. Tommy simply gets away with it.


As for the second part, well of course if you judge him by medal count, he's up there with the best of them. Kind of helps to have been part of the greatest team in the history of the game though, even if he did more than play his part in that. He still had a better supporting cast than anyone he's being compared with.

[Lone Shark]

By the way, obviously I'm not trying to argue that he's not worth an All-Star - in case that's what coming across here. I'm talking about people who judge him in the same light as the all-time legends, Keher, Ring, Carey, Whelahan, Mackey etc. His dirty streak doesn't prevent him from inclusion in here, but his free ride from referees certainly does.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

He'll never be seen by anyone but Kilkenny people as a true great as long as he's seen to be judged by a different rulebook to everyone else.

A ridiculous assertion to make considering it can never be proven and all the evidence points to the exact opposite.

Of course there is evidence. Look at the match in Tullamore this year and tell me that he didn't deserve to be sent off at least twice over. Tell me that he received the correct punishment for the pull across Diarmuid Lyng. Tell me that he shouldn't have been sent off for his fight with Eoin Kelly in the league against Waterford (albeit Kelly should have gone too). Above all, tell me that his tackling technique of going in neck high, or his helicopter swipe back at a pursuing player every time he runs out with a ball isn't dangerous play that should be sanctioned.

You'll note here that I'm leaving out all the hearsay stuff, the kind of thing which Benny Dunne supposedly retaliated to - I'm sticking to the stuff we all see or have seen.

Of course this stuff goes on, but the point is that generally, other players get punished, at least more often than not. Tommy simply gets away with it.


As for the second part, well of course if you judge him by medal count, he's up there with the best of them. Kind of helps to have been part of the greatest team in the history of the game though, even if he did more than play his part in that. He still had a better supporting cast than anyone he's being compared with.

What I was really getting at what the fact, that despite your claims, many outside of Kilkenny already do already consider him a true great.

As for the belief that he is a dirty player and that somehow this diminishes his obvious skills, I find it a frustrating argument. Now of course, it's plain to see that Tommy Walsh is certainly an aggressive player but I refuse to believe that every inter-county referee that has taken charge of a Tommy Walsh game over the last six years has somehow been moronic at their job and given Tommy Walsh, as you put it, 'a free ride'. This is made all the more impossible by the fact the referees are themselves GAA fans, and over the last two years would have heard as many Tommy Walsh rumours/heresay/complaints as anybody else and therefore would have been alerted to these supposed tricks.

As for the three specific fouls/incidents you've listed below, they mean little. Anybody could compile a list of specific fouls committed by any player (including Whelahan, Ring, Mackey) where they did not receive the correct punishment. Indeed I could compile a list right now of times where Walsh was punished unfairly. The point is that referees are creatures of mistakes and that their decisions are something that we all must live by. Again, I repeat the point that not every referee to adjudicate a Kilkenny game over the past six years can be wrong.

It's been a long time since I've witnessed such a lazy, media controlled witch-hunt directed against a player, mainly because the county he represents is unbeatable. By no means is he an angel, far from it, but there have been countless players of a similar nature to Walsh over the last few years who have received little or no attention (John Gardiner for example). All the derogatory comment about him is perfect for Kilkenny, what more motivation could a team need?

And yes Shark, he is part of an immensly successful team, the greatest hurling has ever wittnessed but please do not for one second let this diminish the achievements of receiving 7 consecutive All-Stars in defence, midfield and attack by 26 years of age. That is an achievement unmatched in hurling and to my knoweledge football. Look at the All-Star count for other players on this Kilkenny team and you will find that only Shefflin has more. Indeed, for comparison look at the All-Star of the famed four-in-a-row Kerry football team and see how many of their members ever won 7 consecutive All-Stars.


Again I repeat the fact that I have no Kilkenny connections but in age where mediocrity is so celebrated in various spheres of life, I believe that a great player like Tommy Walsh (first touch, distribution, reading of the game, fielding ability) should be celebrated, instead of being demeaned

[TheManFromFerbane]

7 consecutive All-Stars in defence, midfield and attack by 26 years of age

It has to be said that that is an unreal achievement. When I was living in Kilkenny I used to see Tommy and Michael Kavanagh in the gym the whole time. It comforts me to know that they weren't just lucky or good, they had to work unbelieveably hard to get where they are.

As for the refs being leinent on Tommy\Kilkenny. Tell me something new? The great teams always get away with more from the refs, New Zealand got away with murder in the rucks, you'd never get a penalty in Old Trafford etc...

I think the real surprise is that I've never seen Cody lose his cool like this before. Are things finally getting to his head? Is the machine-like attitude finally starting to slip? I'm not going to lie, I hope it is now. I was 50/50 on who I'd like to win on Sunday. Tipp as the underdogs or Kilkenny rightfully claiming their title as the Greatest team of all time. Kilkenny won and fair play to them but I really hope they're beaten next year.

[athlumneyboy]

Tommy Walsh is a legend fullstop he is one off the greats of the game i do agree he should have being sent off this year but i wouldnt hold that against them. Outside Hurling he is a lovely lad had the pleasure of meeting him when he presented medals in our club in Meath.
i agree with a great day for the parish that Tommy will be hurler of the year he is a winner nothing else and deserve more credit if a few of the Offaly lads took note on how Tommy plays the game they might learn a bit.

[Bord na Mona man]

Walsh is simply well aware that in hurling red cards are very sparingly administered.
Straight reds are only given for ridiculous off the ball strikes - like Benny Dunne's.

In hurling, deliberate chops, walloping a hand holding onto ball, hitting shins when the ball is loose on the ground could all be interpreted as striking offences (a straight red) but are more leniently interpreted as dangerous play and yellow carded.
When a player picks up a yellow and then commits another yellow card offence, the ref generally keep his cards in his pockets.
That is a hurling issue and not any individual player's problem.

And good luck to Tommy Walsh. If we take it that referees are the final adjudicators on all matters, then Walsh is legitimate. He is the driver who passes by the garda speedtrap every day and has no penalty points. I don't believe he has been sent off since 2004 against Clare?

I'm not necessarily advocating it, but do we have hurlers in Offaly capable of cutting their cloth to measure when it comes to discipline?
Could many Offaly play to the edge and stay the right side of it. I have my doubts we have too many.

As I've said countless times, the most bizarre aspect of this is 6 foot something half forwards getting bullied by a 5 foot 7 bantamweight.
If you don't like it, then dish it back at him!

[athlumneyboy]

well said Bord na Mona man we havent had hurlers like that since the 90s that had a physical edge as well as skill and drive to win.