"Defeat" of the proposed rules change.

[Efan]

I see the proposed changes were “defeated” 36% to 64% at the GAA congress on Saturday. I attended a number of games in both codes under the proposed system. I felt in general they were contribution to “fairer” contests and I think that a rule change in some format is certainly required. I would however have voted down this particular set of proposals.

As a reprimand the sanction of yellow carding a player out of a game was in some cases too severe and ironically in other cases not severe enough. Dealing with the “not severe enough” aspect first, I have attended a few games where a player has received a yellow and has had to leave the field where a red card was in fact the correct sanction. It allows a referee an ”easy out” on a tough decision as he can remove a player from the field but not truly handicap his team to the extent that the players offence would have merited.

With the “too severe” aspect this cuts too ways. Referees can be somewhat slower to brandish a yellow card for an appropriate offence early in games as they are aware of the consequence of doing this. As a result players push it to the extent that one player finally picks up a card on the basis of cumulative team fouls for a less serious offence than those that have gone before. The other part of the “too severe” side of the yellow card sanction is that it had the effect of taking some of the intensity out of the games. A miss timed challenge can have you on the bench. In the intensity of say an All Ireland final this has to have the potential to weigh on a players mind and change how he plays. Who would not want to foul out early in what would be the biggest game of their life. I think the more intense the Championship got the more difficult these rules would be to apply.

I think Sin Binning a player for 10 mins for a “yellow car offence” is a serious no brainer solution for what the Rules Task Force are trying to achieve. The GAA were barking up the right tree on this one a few years back and but for the pressure from a vocal cohort of Senior Intercounty Managers (in both codes but especially football) it would have gotten a fairer crack of the whip. The “yellow car sanction” has to allow a player to make an unintentional mistake in the in the intensity of the game and for this not to cost him his participation but still for the player (and his team) to be punished. I do appreciate that the side line management of this at club level will provide a challenge but if there is a consensus out there that an improvement has to take place then opposing with no alternative is not really a long term solution.

[TheManFromFerbane]

You've hit the nail on the head there though. There's no way either of these two rules could work at club level. The sin bin would be impossible for a ref to control in a league match where the umpires and the linesmen are split from both clubs and the yellow card and your off rule would be farcical at club level where a team is struggling for numbers anyway.

Maybe if they wanted to bring these in just for county level but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to split the club and the county like that.

[Treasurer]

A big problem was the change would have undoubtedly suited stronger panels. Send off three or four Kilkenny players for yellow card offences and it probably wouldn't make a huge difference to them, but send off three or four Offaly players and where would we be? This point was raised at one of the workshops and the response was "well the smaller/weaker club/county panels just have to be more disciplined" - how is that fair?!!

The rules are already there for dealing with the dangerous tackles, etc, I don't see how the introduction of this system was going to make things any more uniform.

[azoffaly]

In fairness though Treas, it's not as if Kilkenny lads would have gone out and flaked away to their heart's content knowing that a strong sub would come in for them. If anything, they'd be more likely to want to stay on, because they might lose their place if the replacement has a stormer.

Players want to play, and I thought that sending them off for a yellow card was definitely a deterrant for a lad who was contemplating dragging a lad down or whatever.

The area I disagreed with was suspending a fella that got 2 yellow cards in 12 months. That was crazy talk. I'd have liked to have had a soccer like tracking of the numbers of yellows in a year, and give suspensions if you get 4 or 5 or something.

As for the club aspect, I don't really see that it would have been so hard to count whether or not a lad got a yellow card or whatever. The ref takes the details after all. Also, I don't think he'd any more send off a player on a yellow because Martana Guinan told him to, than he would to red card him today.

I thought the games with these rules were far more open affairs, and better to watch, but maybe that's because I was a forward. I wouldn't like to lose the manliness out of the games, and collision type fouls should be treated as part of the game. Pulling and Dragging is not manly though, in my opinion, it's just negative.

[bracknaghboy]

Fouling in Gaelic Football is the major problem. Hurling can be left alone. The root cause of the fouling is the hand pass. Simple solution......Ban the hand pass and lets start playing football again!!

[TheManFromFerbane]

As for the club aspect, I don't really see that it would have been so hard to count whether or not a lad got a yellow card or whatever. The ref takes the details after all. Also, I don't think he'd any more send off a player on a yellow because Martana Guinan told him to, than he would to red card him today.

Are you talking about the sin bin or the yellow card and your off rule? The sin bin is hard on the ref because he has enough things to be worrying about before he has to worry about keeping track of three lads sitting on the sideline all of them on different clocks on whether they come on or not.

The yellow card rule is hard on the clubs who are struggling for numbers already and simply won't be able to compete if they lose 2-3 players in a game to yellow cards.

[TheManFromFerbane]

Fouling in Gaelic Football is the major problem. Hurling can be left alone. The root cause of the fouling is the hand pass. Simple solution......Ban the hand pass and lets start playing football again!!

Not saying you're wrong but why to you think the root cause of the fouling is the hand pass?

[bracknaghboy]

Handpassing is leading to far too much crowding in half back/half forward lines. The bulk of frees are for lads being surrounded and fouled or them being surrounded and overcarrying the ball themselves. Another problem I've seen lately in club game is high tackles but again most of them are cused by lads being fed a dodgy handpass under pressure and an opposition player lunging in at him. When there is some much activity in a small confined space the end result is frees.
The propsed new rules would ruin the club game and lead to far more violence on the sidelines with lads fuming after getting a yellow card We need to create space to reduce frees.

[TheManFromFerbane]

But what do you do then with a direct ball that's hit into an inside forward? If his back is to goal and he can't shoot because he's being tightly marked what does he do with the ball? He can't hand pass and a foot bass in that tight an area would be nearly always be lost.

Also if the back gets the ball and is surrounded by 2/3 forwards, what does he do with the ball? Kicking it any where would nearly always result in losing the ball also.

I know what you're saying about freeing up the game but I don't think getting rid of the handpass altogether is the answer. Maybe something like no more than two handpasses in a row or something would work. Giving a player a chance to work some space and then deliver a clever ball??

[Bord na Mona man]

Instead of coming up with tacky new rules, enforce the existing ones.
I thought the new card sanctions were farcical and am glad they are gone.
They didn't work in 2005 and there was no reason to believe they would work now.

The rules are already there, but just aren't enforced properly.
Referees decide how to control the games themselves regardless.
In the league this year, most refs simply gave the black card for normally a yellow card offence and yellow for red card offences.

Every year there seems to be some new guidelines issued that will supposedly clean up the game. i.e. Tickings for jersey pulls etc. They get half heartedly enforced for about two weeks before its back to business as usual.

[joe bloggs]

I wouldn't go as far as to ban the handpass in football, but i would look at the tackle instead. I think we should try to have the same tackle rule as used in the internatonal rules, which would mean players would be less likely to dilly dally on the ball and pass it over and back across the pitch, and would instead be more likely to move the ball downfield more quickly

[Archangel]

I know what you're saying about freeing up the game but I don't think getting rid of the handpass altogether is the answer. Maybe something like no more than two handpasses in a row or something would work. Giving a player a chance to work some space and then deliver a clever ball??

Agreed, like everybody knows and shouts "two hops", bringing in a foul for two consecutive handpasses would be welcome and easy to govern. Players would adapt to it very quickly.

[Silken Thomas]

With regards to the handpass its arguably a very new phenomenon.

Gaelic Football pre 1990 and even later was very much anti possession where both sets of teams kicked possession out of defence at any costs and forwards were expected to compete for their own ball.

Six to seven handpasses out of defence would seem alien 20 years ago. All these handpasses leads to more confrontations, attempted tackles and rough play.

Though i'm certainly not saying football was not rough 20 years ago.

[Silken Thomas]

You really can't beat an inflated ego can you . Touted as a future G.A.A. President Laois man Dick O' Neill has come out with the following about managers frostiness to the new rules.
Blissfully ignoring the 80% plus vote by the GPA against the green lighting of these new sanctions.


"I feel that people listened to them a second time and, as a consequence, they lost out marginally. But theirs is a hollow victory. There is not more powerful force than an idea whose time has come and, in this case, the time for these has almost come."

The Laois man is now calling on the Association to take back control from inter-county managers.

"It's not that managers have power, it's that we as an organisation have allowed them to assumed that power," he added.

"I would be of the belief that if managers want to be administrators, there is a very simple process by which they can do that. But it's time for managers to manage, players to play and administrators to be allowed to get on with the business of administration."

For the record I saw advantages and disadvantages to the disciplinary efforts but the grassroots, managers and players have spoken .

Check him out yourself on Hogan Stand. He has some neck. Literally

[Efan]

What about the prospect of limiting the hand pass to 3-5 times per possession where on the ball must be kicked with the foot.