SHC Draws

[kinnittyman]

For whats it worth here is the draw for the meaningless part of the hurling Championship

Group 1:
Kinnitty
K/K
Shamrocks
St Rynaghs
Ballyskenagh
Shinrone

Group 2:
Birr
Coolderry
Tullamore
Belmont
Lusmagh
Clareen

Intermediate Draw:
Group 1:
Crinkle
Clara
Killurin
Brosna Gaels
Coolderry

Group 2:
Birr
Kinnitty
K/K
Drumcullen

Group 3:
Killavilla
St Rynaghs
Carrig and Riverstown
Ballinamere

[azoffaly]

Any word on the football?

[Hocker]

Tullamore Court Hotel Senior Football Championship

Group 1: Rhode, Shamrocks, Shannonbridge, Ballycumber.

Group 2: Tullamore, Edenderry, Tubber, Ferbane

Group 3: Gracefield, Clara, St Brigid’s, Erin Rovers.

[swiftpost]

Hard to know what to mke of hurling draw, does it even really matter? I suppose KK, Ryanaghs and Kinnitty will be fighting for the 2 automatic qf places. Coolderry and Birr( if bothered) should take automatic spots in other group.

[beirut]

It's a bit ridiculas alright. They took a step forward by cutting the championship down to twelve so at least there was competitive games at the relegation end, but two steps back in that we now we have a load of games that mean frig all, so much so that Birr aren't even starting back training until March.

[Offalys Future]

the problem i have with the new structure is that like has just been said there are going to be alot
of meaningless games. But not only that, you are going to have clubs using say at least 20-23 players
at senior level because with so many matches the best 15 wont need to play or wont be available to play all the time.

This is going to have a serious affect on the intermediate and junior championships. With these standard players
asked to play senior and many players will get little hurling for the year and thus get browned off.
I think it was a bad move by the county board.

My solution would be to have a knockout championship like the old days.
This would mean that the championship can be run off on a quick basis much like kilkenny.
Put more emphasis on the league and the top 2 teams get to the quarter final of the championship.
This would mean that junior/intermediate players could play the league and still play in their own level championship.
It would also mean that the championship games would be shit or bust with big games and big crowds.
And in my opinion would improve club hurling in all the clubs alot.

[Treasurer]

Just a few points on the criticism of the new system.

It's been talked about by some as if this was something pulled out of the sky and forced on clubs. This structure was put forward from the clubs and voted for by the clubs. If there are issues with it, then the first port of call to complain is the club. It was decided to run with the change for hurling only this year as it was primarily the hurling clubs who requested it, with some football clubs actually expressing annoyance that it wasn't being implemented for football as well.

As for "meaningless" games - I don't see how this the case as where you finish in the league stage can have a big bearing on your path from there on. Plus once the league stage is over you actually have MORE knockout games, which is generally where the real attraction lies for supporters and so on. It also means that the gap that has crucified clubs over the last number of years will be significantly reduced, as three rounds can be played before the break - under the old system this couldn't happen as some clubs would be left in the farcical situation of effectively being out of the champions but with games left to play a few months down the road.

Personally I think we should have gone the hole hog and used the league part as the league proper and not bothered with a separate league, but that's a relatively minor detail.

If we want to improve things in hurling, who better to copy than Kilkenny? Maybe it won't improve things for us, but it's well worth a try.

[corner back]

As a senior club hurler I'm delighted with the new system. A previous poster wanted the system based on that of Kilkenny. This is exactly what it is.
Only the bottom two teams in each group can be relegated and everybody gets a knockout game. We all get atleast 6 games this year, not 3 like last year.
Birr probably didn't start back until May last year. No system is going to stop them or Coolderry getting to the later stages of the championship (which is as it should be). Those boys are guaranteed loads of games anyway. Up to this year the rest of us fannied about for 3 months between matches. This system is more worthwhile for the majority of clubs and will hopefully give a chance for a few late developers to shine.
I agree with the fears for borderline players not being eligible for lower grades. Maybe a rule should be brought in that a player eligible for a lower grade at the start of the year will remain so until he has taken part in at least 2 or 3 of the league section games or one knockout game.
Hurling in this county will not develop unless players get to play more games.

[Offalys Future]

treasurer can i just ask you a question and i would be really interested on your response and to know was this discussed.
take for instance the small hurling clubs in the senior championship, Ballyskenagh, Lusmagh, Clareen, Belmont and Shinrone.
because now there are 5 matches to play in the group stages it is more than likely going to happen that these small clubs
and stages are going to be missing players through injury, suspension, holidays, unforseen events etc.

These clubs are struggling for numbers as it is and what i can see happening is that they will have to use 19.20,21,22,23 hurlers
at senior level this year. If so - these players that arent at senior level and will be taken away from the clubs intermediate
and junior teams.

Take for instance your own club Ballyskenagh - they struglled last year at times in the Intermediate grade and from what
i have heard they will be missing at least two of the starting fifteen for this years championship. What happens if they get 3,4,5
injuries, suspensions etc on top of that? They would be down to 10 players out of 15 that struggled at times in the intermediate
last year plus 5 or 6 lads that are graded junior. What effect would that have on these players and your club in general?

I think this new system benefits the bigger clubs with plenty players but who also will be affected by this system. And what you
will have is all clubs with 25 of a panel of senior hurlers that can't play junior or intermediate. A luxury that in my opinion alot of
clubs can't afford at present.

I would be really interested in a response from you, so i can fully understand the motive behind this?
thanks

[Treasurer]

treasurer can i just ask you a question and i would be really interested on your response and to know was this discussed.
take for instance the small hurling clubs in the senior championship, Ballyskenagh, Lusmagh, Clareen, Belmont and Shinrone.
because now there are 5 matches to play in the group stages it is more than likely going to happen that these small clubs
and stages are going to be missing players through injury, suspension, holidays, unforseen events etc.

These clubs are struggling for numbers as it is and what i can see happening is that they will have to use 19.20,21,22,23 hurlers
at senior level this year. If so - these players that arent at senior level and will be taken away from the clubs intermediate
and junior teams.

Take for instance your own club Ballyskenagh - they struglled last year at times in the Intermediate grade and from what
i have heard they will be missing at least two of the starting fifteen for this years championship. What happens if they get 3,4,5
injuries, suspensions etc on top of that? They would be down to 10 players out of 15 that struggled at times in the intermediate
last year plus 5 or 6 lads that are graded junior. What effect would that have on these players and your club in general?

I think this new system benefits the bigger clubs with plenty players but who also will be affected by this system. And what you
will have is all clubs with 25 of a panel of senior hurlers that can't play junior or intermediate. A luxury that in my opinion alot of
clubs can't afford at present.

I would be really interested in a response from you, so i can fully understand the motive behind this?
thanks

Yes it was discussed and welcomed at your club. And again a reminder that this proposal came from a forum where all clubs were invited and then passed at a full county board meeting. So while there is no doubt that there can be differing opinions within clubs, I really don't think club administrators are so far removed from what players want that they would plough ahead and put forward something that was in contradiction to the general feeling.

The issue of using more players may well impact on clubs with smaller panels, but equally it can mean that you could be missing some players for one or two games and not find yourself out of contention as a result. Under the old system, an early bad run of luck with missing players for one reason or another could see your championship effectively over after two games. With this system all is not lost and regardless of where you finish in the league you are guaranteed at least that one big knockout game.

A club our size will always struggle for numbers, but things are better right now than they have been for a number of years and indeed that struggle made last year's success all the more sweet.

[Offalys Future]

Yes it was discussed and welcomed at your club. And again a reminder that this proposal came from a forum where all clubs were invited and then passed at a full county board meeting. So while there is no doubt that there can be differing opinions within clubs, I really don't think club administrators are so far removed from what players want that they would plough ahead and put forward something that was in contradiction to the general feeling.

In Cork they did!!!!!!!

I just think and its just my opinion that less people are going to get championship hurling this year. And by the time the 3rd and 4th rounds come along, small clubs will have 4/5 junior and intermediate players on the sidelines that were used in earlier rounds when numbers were low. These guys aren't good enough to play senior and were used as pawns to a
system that does nothing for them..And their remainder of summer will be spent on the sielines without been able to play in their grade.

While the aim is to make the senior championship more competitive, i dont think it will do this. I think it will be competitive at knockout stages when it matters. While intermediate and junior will be less competitve because many of players graded at this level wont be allowed play.

I think it was foolish to copy a Kilkenny system. Kilkenny have alot more competitive hurling clubs than Offaly. With large numbers on each panel.
I wouldnt be sure of the exact figure(but i will find out) my guess is that Kilkenny have 4 times more adult hurlers than Offaly.
Kilkennys greater numbers and standard was shown when their junior a champions beat Offalys Intermediate Champions.

A County like Offaly should be trying to get as many people to play championship hurling across the board as possible. I dont think this system will work but only time will tell i guess.

[Treasurer]

In Cork they did!!!!!!!

Obviously I was referring to this particular situation only.

[Offalys Future]

that was just a joke btw!

[Lone Shark]

One thing that hasn't quite been cleared up here - this is a lot of extra games, which is fair enough. I wouldn't be a senior club player or the colour of it myself, but lads want meaningful games and this seems to be providing them, so fair play. However we're going to play all these games in the height of summer, so howw are we going to stop endless fixture re-arrangements due to minor players etc? Is there a condition that since these games can't see anyone being eliminated, does that mean that we'll no longer have to put up with clubs saying that they can't play because Johnny Prodigy is playing with the county minors the following week and has been pulled away by the county management, or that they can't play because a lot of lads are down to play football on the same weekend?

On the one hand, you'd think it would since teams can't lose the championship in the round robin stage and that's how Kilkenny do it (albeit without the football issue) but on the other hand it still could be the difference between being in a relegation playoff and not - which is fairly significant.

Anyone able to clarify this?

Also, why are we not doing the same in the football? Surely if it's good for one code, would it not be good for the other? I'm not sure why hurling needs this any more than football does myself.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

I'm wholly in favour of this new format but only on the proviso that an iron fist is applied with regards to the fixtures. The group games, many though they are, should all be played on the allotted dates. No delays, to do so would lead to a reprehensible backlog and periods without games worse than last year. And last year was pretty bad (100 days). With a firm hand, this system could be pretty good, successful even. Without it and disrepute would surely follow.

As an aside, I personally would have no issue with the group games being run during the inter county season. Even if the big teams such as Birr and Coolderry are missing a few players and loose a few games they still will not be knocked out. Let them have their full complement back then when the knock out stages begin and may the best team win as they say. Now numerous issues surround this and I could easily be convinced in the other direction but at the moment it wouldn't be a bad way to keep 'Johnny normal not on county panel club hurler' playing regularly over the summer. Anyway just thought I'd throw it out there, disagree if you will.