"Another way of assessing which teams can play senior"

[Lone Shark]

When I came on the scene, we didn't have to go through this process of having to win intermediate, we went straight to senior. It would be okay if it was over three or four months, but the way the championships are dragged out, it (the intermediate championship) can be full of pitfalls. Teams that are serious about playing senior can be left behind and I think it is the county that suffers. I would also say that St Brigids have an attitude that deserves to be senior and maybe the system needs to be addressed. There may be a better way of assessing teams that want to be senior and some teams are senior in name only. They are just doing enough to stay senior, they have no aspirations of winning it and they don't work hard at their game. They should be found out.

The above was taken from Richie's interview in the Tribune this week in the run up to the Intermediate final. It was all put in as a direct quote, so I'm going to work off the basis that it's fairly close to what he said and doesn't misrepresent him. If that's the case can I just say....."WHA....????"

I can't fathom it - is Richie advocating some kind of self assessment to decide who plays at what grade? Or alternatively, it it some form of X-Factor style panel? I really don't get it. I agree that Brigids deserve to be senior - they proved it by recovering from last year's setback and winning the Intermediate Grade. The fact that they were the second team in a row to come straight back up after going down suggests to me that the other contenders at the second level simply aren't quite good enough.

Is there anyone out there who understands our manager's viewpoint, or who could put some flesh on the bones of this way of thinking? I'm open to being convinced, but right now it just strikes me as being hare brained.

Incidentally, I don't know what clubs he is suggesting are coasting at senior, but the fact remains that if they didn't put the work in, they wouldn't be able to coast at that level. Every club mightn't be maximising their potential, but it's up to the others to take full advantage and put them down. Either way, I can imagine that a couple of clubs might take offence as there are very few potential clubs that he could be referring to here.

[Archangel]

We live in 'Interesting Times' to quote Terry Pratchett.... not good in other words.

[Blue and White]

I can't see another way of deciding who plays at what grade other than a simple promotion and relegation system. It's hard on some teams that are close to making the breakthrough but Croghan lost the Intermediate finals of 93, 94 and 95 and semi final of 96 before making it to senior where they stayed for 10 years by avoiding relegation. He probably thinks they are better than Tubber, Erin Rovers, Ferbane, Edenderry, Shannonbridge etc but they have proved themselves at senior by getting enough points each year to avoid the drop. How can it be fairer. Croghan thought they were better that St. Rynagh's last year but the right team stayed up, the team that showed up and proved themselves when it mattered. We can't let opinion grade teams as its one of the few areas where football can be the judge. Put a group of lads in a room to pick a manager and see how thats worked out for us over the last 6 years.
The teams that have beaten Walsh Island in the last few years (St. Rynagh's, Croghan, Doon/ Edenderry?) have been the teams that have failed to stay up against the teams he thinks they are better than. If the comments had been made post match - sore loser. The fact it was pre-match is a bit odd when you should be thinking win. Nothing else matters.

[the bare biffo]

Maybe clubs should be ranked based on the number of titles they won in the 1970's.

[bracknaghboy]

If you want to see Walsh Island awarded senior status text YES to 74511
Also Richie says he wants to see the senior teams with no ambition "FOUND OUT" Careful Richie!

[Silken Thomas]

In one sense I have to agree with Richie O' Connor here.

For the good of football in the County I really believe that two teams should go down from senior every year. Maybe something like one from Intermediate and one from the Division One League( If it's the same team the second last team in Division one. Likewise if the Intermediate winners and Division 2 winners are the same- well Intermediate finallists)

Some club players treat the league very disrespectfully and a look at the results of the likes of Clara, Erin Rovers, Tubber, Shannonbridge and Edenderry would illustrate my point.
For instance the likes of Clara getting relegated to Division 2 league in 2007 and Shannonbridge taking 15 plus point beatings this year. It's laziness, but illustrates why the likes of these teams didn't end up in O'Connor Park in September

Instead of three matches which are important to some teams this will make their ten league matches important too. Thus improving the competiveness of the league and surely improving though maybe gradually players across the County.

[Lone Shark]

In one sense I have to agree with Richie O' Connor here.

For the good of football in the County I really believe that two teams should go down from senior every year. Maybe something like one from Intermediate and one from the Division One League( If it's the same team the second last team in Division one. Likewise if the Intermediate winners and Division 2 winners are the same- well Intermediate finallists)

Some club players treat the league very disrespectfully and a look at the results of the likes of Clara, Erin Rovers, Tubber, Shannonbridge and Edenderry would illustrate my point.
For instance the likes of Clara getting relegated to Division 2 league in 2007 and Shannonbridge taking 15 plus point beatings this year. It's laziness, but illustrates why the likes of these teams didn't end up in O'Connor Park in September

Instead of three matches which are important to some teams this will make their ten league matches important too. Thus improving the competiveness of the league and surely improving though maybe gradually players across the County.

Could not disagree more I'm afraid. I agree that the league is treated as a joke by some clubs, and that's up to them - however other clubs don't treat the league as a joke, but they have no choice but to underperform on occasion. Even if we do create a system whereby all the county footballers are available for all league matches - which would be a tricky thing to do at the best of times - what about dual clubs? Shane Dooley's on the county hurling panel and is also Tullamore footballers' main scoring forward. I've no doubt his absence is a big factor in why Tullamore finished the league in or around the bottom of the table - should they be relegated from the senior championship for that?

It's bad enough that county championship matches get fecked around in the name of intercounty teams, imagine if league games were as well? The poor club player may as well hang up his boots, he'd never get a fixture between April and August. Now if you want to talk about the principle of two up two down based on championship results, that's another matter. I'd disagree as well, but I could see your point of view.

Also, smaller clubs don't have the depth to treat the league as seriously as others. Players will take holidays, they will have work commitments, and if you're a club like Tullamore, Clara or Rhode with a strong second team to pick from, that's not really a huge problem. If you're a club who only really has a panel of seventeen or eighteen and after that you're into Junior B's who don't train, then it's a much bigger issue. Even more so in the hurling - Birr missing five or six frontline starters would still be a very good team - Clareen or Belmont missing five or six starters would be much more damaged however.

I agree with your point that teams who treat every game seriously tend to be rewarded with championship success. I know that Ferbane in their heyday put a lot of emphasis on playing at close to full intensity all the time, and that had a lot of benefits - much like the attitude Rhode tend to take nowadays. I think that should be carrot enough to play the league at a really strong level though, I wouldn't go adding more stick.

[GOOFY]

Lads, WI scored one point from play last sunday, so even though Ritchies comments were before the county final, subsequent events have PROVED that their not up to senior level, at least not yet,

Any team that is senior are there on merit, any team that is intermediate are likewise there on merit. End of Rant.

[Silken Thomas]

I forgot about this one. I thought you of all people would understand Ritchie's comments L.S.. Maybe you were looking for an argument

A similar scenario to the one I mentioned exists in Galway. This seems to work well, as their senior teams seem to be as competitive as they come with Caltra, Kilereerin and of course Corofin springing to mind.
Likewise when Dunmore McHales started slipping they were just forced to go down to Intermediate. No passengers! Would the arse have fallen out of that club if Galway had our structure?

The point raised about dual players like Shane Dooley is a very valid one but surely things could be accomodated. I'm sure in a dual county like Galway there would be at least one or two players in the same boat.

The small club issue doesn't wash with me I must admit. Senior club players should be able to organise their holidays for the break in fixtures which is organised every year. If they haven't the strength in depth they would have to go down to Intermediate and someone who does would come up.

My belief would be that the likes of Walsh Island, Doon, Shannonbridge, St. Rynaghs, Tubber, Raheen, Erin Rovers and yes Edenderry and Ferbane would be yo-yoing up and down for a while.
Is that a bad thing Surely the club scene would be more competitive

It looks like pure whinging from Ritchie but I agree with the man.

[Bord na Mona man]

I'd say some Intermediate clubs are peeved because they win all their games, bar one, every year and stay rooted in Intermediate.
Whereas some senior clubs might only win one game a year against a fellow struggler and its enough to keep their senior status.
Perhaps there is the feeling that some senior clubs go through the motions for certain games, expecting to be beaten and are just focussed on survival.

That said, most of the Intermediate sides would be hanging on for dear life at senior level anyway.

Every year at the end of the championships, I'd like to see the top 2 or maybe even 3 Intermediate teams playing the bottom 2 or 3 senior clubs in a promotion/relegation league group.
That way, you'd be certain of flushing out senior clubs that aren't up to scratch and promoting a couple of Intermediate sides - if they have proved themselves good enough.
You might even have the scenario where no Intermediate club gets promoted!

It would least ensure that teams are graded more on merit.