Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

[Lone Shark]

(1) The legacy of the Carlow game was never going to be felt the next time we play Carlow. The legacy will be felt the next time we play some big underdog in a championship game, and the game goes to the wire. If that same underdog was playing Meath, Cork or some such decent team they would expect their opponents to pull it out of the fire - maybe not overtly, but deep down. Against Offaly they'll know they're playing a team who has choked it in this situation before, and thus may well do so again. You can't tell me any player who has ever played on a weak team having a good day is not well aware of the difference between a big team who always closes out and a big team who has a yellow streak - as Offaly is now perceived to have, whether we like it or not. Not entirely because of that game, but it was the biggest single factor.

(2) Nobody is saying the loss to Westmeath is a success - let's be clear. However Westmeath 04 was a good team, the type of team we DID NOT meet or beat before the Dubs in 06. The two decent teams we did play in 06 absolutely wiped the floor with us.

(3) In the league, results do not matter, but as you say, being in the top flight to get games is crucial. Rhode losing league games here and there does not matter in the greater scheme of things - if Rhode got relegated to division 3 and had to prepare for the Championship with games against bad intermediate teams and junior sides, then it would. Kilmurray got us relegated - that matters. The fact that we lost in Tralee when we could easily have won (for example) does not.

(4) If we get to a Leinster final I'll be the first to acknowledge it'll have been a good year - it means we'll have beaten the Dubs on the way (unless something very unusual happens in the quarter final) and that'll be our first championship win over real decent opposition in a long time. I don't foresee it happening, but that's neither here nor there.

(5) Nobody cared about the result against DCU by the way - I can see the point of a lot of your argument, but facetious stuff like that doesn't help. My biggest beef was that we know from last year that Niall Smith is a few years from being the finished product and Alan McNamee is woefully under par for a long time now. So what did we try as a potential alternative in a game that could have tested another option at a decent pace? Smith and McNamee. In the words of Ned Flanders - "We've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas!" Hence my criticism - small beer in terms of 2008 as a whole, but either we all say nothing until Offaly make their exit from the Championship or else we base our opinions on what we've seen so far - and I haven't seen anything, not one thing, to make me think Roe is thinking on his feet or is the right man to maximise the potential of this bunch of players.

[Hyper]

I agree with you there there LS. I was sitting behind Roe last year in the league game v the Rossies and I don't think himself or Murphy uttered a word the whole game. However both of them were well able to talk to the press after the campaign was over!!! How the lads can look that man in the eye let alone train under him beggers belief. From what I gathered last year the man had great ideas etc but none seemed to come to fruition and he seems to be going down the same road this year.
They had a game down in Tipp last night and some of the players were not aware of the fixture until yesterday. What sort of shit is this to be going on with? At the moment promotion from division 4 will be hard got. That "CARLOW" game could be a real banana skin and those away games to Antrim and Wicklow won't be no pushovers. I think myself that this Offaly team prefer "top of the ground" and will improve later on but hopefully it won't be too late before Roe gets the finger out and gets a game plan in place.
LS What are the odds for div 4?

[Barracuda]

(1) The legacy of the Carlow game was never going to be felt the next time we play Carlow. The legacy will be felt the next time we play some big underdog in a championship game, and the game goes to the wire. If that same underdog was playing Meath, Cork or some such decent team they would expect their opponents to pull it out of the fire - maybe not overtly, but deep down. Against Offaly they'll know they're playing a team who has choked it in this situation before, and thus may well do so again. You can't tell me any player who has ever played on a weak team having a good day is not well aware of the difference between a big team who always closes out and a big team who has a yellow streak - as Offaly is now perceived to have, whether we like it or not. Not entirely because of that game, but it was the biggest single factor.

Sorry LS but the words "Straws" and Clutching" come together in my mind in quick succession when I read that paragraph.
At least you have "softened" on how important it was - thats a start.But to suggest that if we were to play Westmeath for example somewhere in the back of their minds they would be thinking "Carlow beat these guys" so therefore so can we is clutching at straws. Yeah are very beatable but to suggest that the Carlow game which was not at all important is the corner stone of this perception is nothing short of madness. Hey I dont actually think KK was a great manager by the way but we did enjoy more days in the sun and he left it no worse that he got it- beating 3 teams in Leinster in the championship when it counts and competing in the Leinster Final. I'd happily settle for that this year - wouldnt you ?? or would you prefer if we were winning the not so important games like that ones against Carlow - assuming we had to decide betwen the 2 options.

(2) Nobody is saying the loss to Westmeath is a success - let's be clear. However Westmeath 04 was a good team, the type of team we DID NOT meet or beat before the Dubs in 06. The two decent teams we did play in 06 absolutely wiped the floor with us.

Ill take a big risk here, Can you show me where you claimed that after each of the 3 games in '06 you said the opposing team were sub standard as you are now claiming- not after we lost the Leinster final but after each game. If you can, then I will have to accept your argument that from your view point (not mine mind you) the tenure under KK was a disaster, but it must be after each game - I'm looking for consistency here to prove that you are not making up excuses today to justify why KK was such a disaster.

(3) In the league, results do not matter, but as you say, being in the top flight to get games is crucial. Rhode losing league games here and there does not matter in the greater scheme of things - if Rhode got relegated to division 3 and had to prepare for the Championship with games against bad intermediate teams and junior sides, then it would. Kilmurray got us relegated - that matters. The fact that we lost in Tralee when we could easily have won (for example) does not.
quote]

Yes we got relegated (unlucky with that Tommo free that was waved wide!) but we were still in one of the top divisions so not that critical, as we were still getting decent games and remember KK introduced many new younger members to the panel and as you rightly point out these guys rarely perform until they are older but someone has to start teaching them and this usually takes from the squad on a tempory basis.

(4) If we get to a Leinster final I'll be the first to acknowledge it'll have been a good year - it means we'll have beaten the Dubs on the way (unless something very unusual happens in the quarter final) and that'll be our first championship win over real decent opposition in a long time. I don't foresee it happening, but that's neither here nor there.

Me either- so we both agree that mr R is at nothing- and we both are staying that now before the championship starts.(lots of humble pie to be eaten if we win the Leinster).
By default you are suggesting that any other team we play this year in Leinster are not a decent side, I know what you mean but jaysus LS if we ca nbe right up there beating all the other teams we must be still making progress and holding our own- even in times with a very bad manager.

(5) Nobody cared about the result against DCU by the way - I can see the point of a lot of your argument, but facetious stuff like that doesn't help. My biggest beef was that we know from last year that Niall Smith is a few years from being the finished product and Alan McNamee is woefully under par for a long time now. So what did we try as a potential alternative in a game that could have tested another option at a decent pace? Smith and McNamee. In the words of Ned Flanders - "We've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas!" Hence my criticism - small beer in terms of 2008 as a whole, but either we all say nothing until Offaly make their exit from the Championship or else we base our opinions on what we've seen so far - and I haven't seen anything, not one thing, to make me think Roe is thinking on his feet or is the right man to maximise the potential of this bunch of players.

See for me its an important point, you cant really pick and choose and claim a game is important just to suit your argument.
You justify why we did not win beacause of inexperience in midfield.I agree, its a bit like saying we beat Kildare because we got goals. The result is the bottom line, why we did win, or why we didnt win is not that terrible important as such to the masses out there- it is to the manager because he should be learning from this.I would also agree its important to us in that we can analyse the game - which we all like doing. But I could argue that this hammering put Offaly football back decades - like your argument about the Carlow game when in fact neither of theses 2 games mattered a damm or really counted for anything other than a fixture to be fulfilled. We saw worse last year versus Wicklow when we didnt even have a team and I hear nothing about this game.


I think we have flogged this one to death,A simple poll should suffice now,

"During which of the following managers reign (in your opinion) did we enjoy the most success with the Offaly Footballers"

Kelly, Fahy, KK, Roe.

I'll accept the voters opinions.

[turk]

I think we have flogged this one to death,A simple poll should suffice now,

"During which of the following managers reign (in your opinion) did we enjoy the most success with the Offaly Footballers"

Kelly, Fahy, KK, Roe.

I'll accept the voters opinions.

Do it!!

[Hyper]

Barracuda, unfortunately we did have a team against Wicklow. Karol slattery was probaly the main absentee through injury. Although Pascal and Joe Quinn were absent their replacements would have been disappointed not to have played against Dublin. Mr Roe didn't think it was necessary for the panel to meet up after that defeat except for one night - some manager.........

[Barracuda]

Barracuda, unfortunately we did have a team against Wicklow. Karol slattery was probaly the main absentee through injury. Although Pascal and Joe Quinn were absent their replacements would have been disappointed not to have played against Dublin. Mr Roe didn't think it was necessary for the panel to meet up after that defeat except for one night - some manager.........

Very true Hyper, I think if memory serves me correctly at least one palyer was playing who was not even on the panel until that game (Kelly Shannonbridge)because there were so many crying off etc.
And yeah not organising a meeting etc was criminal.

[Lone Shark]

Sorry LS but the words "Straws" and Clutching" come together in my mind in quick succession when I read that paragraph.
At least you have "softened" on how important it was - thats a start.But to suggest that if we were to play Westmeath for example somewhere in the back of their minds they would be thinking "Carlow beat these guys" so therefore so can we is clutching at straws. Yeah are very beatable but to suggest that the Carlow game which was not at all important is the corner stone of this perception is nothing short of madness. Hey I dont actually think KK was a great manager by the way but we did enjoy more days in the sun and he left it no worse that he got it- beating 3 teams in Leinster in the championship when it counts and competing in the Leinster Final. I'd happily settle for that this year - wouldnt you ?? or would you prefer if we were winning the not so important games like that ones against Carlow - assuming we had to decide betwen the 2 options.

Ill take a big risk here, Can you show me where you claimed that after each of the 3 games in '06 you said the opposing team were sub standard as you are now claiming- not after we lost the Leinster final but after each game. If you can, then I will have to accept your argument that from your view point (not mine mind you) the tenure under KK was a disaster, but it must be after each game - I'm looking for consistency here to prove that you are not making up excuses today to justify why KK was such a disaster.

On the first one, time will tell. I've watched too many games (and as a result had to force it into my pricing by times) to be able to ignore how some teams inspire fear in opposition and others don't, and the subsequent effect on results that has.


As for the second point, sorry to be able to do this to you .....

May 23rd 2006

Anyway, I don't want to be more confident here, but I'm getting nagging good feelings about this one. It's not that I've suddenly changed my tune and think that we're world beaters, but confidence was very low up to this in the camp, and one win, even against one of the most useless sides you could hope to play (I honestly think Westmeath with Dessie are poor - without him they're not far off being as bad a team as there is playing intercounty football in Ireland) will stand ......... realistically if we can contain Doyle they don't have a lot else. Fennin hasn't really played well for a long time now, and their half forward line doesn't look like it has a lot of scoring in it. This O'Neill character at corner forward is an unknown to me, but in general it seems to be Doyle and not a lot else.
........ around the half back line. I'm not sure if Kevin O'Neill will be fit for Kildare, but certainly if he's not their full back line will be there to be exploited (2008 edit - he wasn't), and ...........first of all, there is certainly a Leinster Final place there for the taking. Neither Meath nor Wexford would scare me, and ....

May 29th

Let’s not lose the run of ourselves here – our win two weeks ago over Westmeath was a case of one moderate team beating a very poor one, while yesterday’s opposition (Kildare) won’t have appeared on anyone’s shortlist of All Ireland candidates either,

I can't find anything more directly calling Wexford for the moderate team they were (still the best result we had under Kilmurray/Cooney having said that) but I don't think anyone on this board would consider Wexford 06 as an elite team.

[Barracuda]

Fair Play LS- you are consistent if nothing else, you were not happy all during all of KK's reign.

Wheres me sword...............

[Lone Shark]

A thread touching on 100 posts, ending up with agreeing to disagree???

That can't be right.....

[Offalys Future]

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[Offalys Future]

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[Lone Shark]

I wouldn't blame Pilkington for game tactics, substitutions or anything - however he picked the team, so he must acknowledge some responsibility for that.

Today was lost due to silly ground strokes, no good fielding and an inability to rise the ball - not skills that a county minor manager should be imparting. Basically if that was the best fifteen minor hurlers in the county, I'd be reticient to blame JP and would blame club trainers instead.

[Offalys Future]

gggggggggggggggggggg

[Lone Shark]

It is not a county manager's fault when players can't rise the ball, or they swing at an overhead ball with one hand on the hurl, or indeed they appear too afraid to go into hard challenges. These are huge skill deficiencies that cannot be solved with a month of ball work with a county manager, they should have been solved at age 14.

Now the issue of whether there are other players in the county that do not have these deficiencies is another matter.

You are correct in saying that the academy does not come out of this well at all.

[Offalys Future]

gggggggggggggggg