Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

[TheManFromFerbane]

Carlow loss- not important

Every time you put on the county jersey it is important. This was a championship game that counted and it made me absolutely sick to look at them that day.

There is no way you can convince me that beating three poor teams and losing badly to one good one is a successful year. Its not results that matter its trophies and if you don't win any then you look at progress and we went backwards under Kilmurry.

[Lone Shark]

I would argue that the Carlow loss, combined with the one to Westmeath under Fahy was one of the most significant in recent years in terms of Offaly football going backwards. One of the biggest assets our football teams had taking the field was the reputation they carried with them, a reputation earned over the last 40 years but more importantly carried on even through some of the worst years where humiliations to small fry didn't happen.

These two games turned Offaly football from a team to be feared into a once big gun who was now vulnerable to all and sundry, and a great draw for a weaker team to get since our history would motivate their players, but yet we had proven ourselves beatable.

A lot of the legacy of the successful years was pissed away that day in Carlow.


The way I would look at it is this. If you look at what O'Kelly took over and what he left after him, things had improved. Gerry Fahy took over a division 2 team, and though his championship results were poor, he got the forward line scoring and took us fom division 2 into division 1. I'd say mixed results overall. KK took over a division one team and left them in division two, with severe dissention in the ranks and one big day but no trophies. Definitely gone backwards.

Pat Roe took over a division 2 team and left them in the new div 4 and presided over some of the most appalling displays we've ever seen. (Anyone who says that Dublin's win by five was a fair reflection is kidding themselves - it should have been 15). He may improve things this year, but right now he'd have to get promotion and reach at least round 4 of the qualifiers to even balance the books on his time in charge.

[Bord na Mona man]

Re: Kilmurray

My opinion is that in Offaly we tend to attack our own quicker than an outsider.
That's why we tend to get in outside managers so often.

In most counties the reason an outsider is brought in because you have murder between rival clubs and they refuse to play for a man associated with their rivals.
Like in Wicklow where traditionally hiring a Rathnew man to manage triggers a walkout from the Baltinglass panelists etc.

In Offaly there isn't that level of crazed level of bitterness between clubs.
However an Offaly man at the helm feels the heat quicker than an outside man.

An example Gerry Fahey was regarded as a success.

Yet he presided over:
- Losing a 55 year unbeaten run to Wastemeath, who actually kicked for home with 14 men.
- Naively allowing Mattie Forde to score 2-10 (mostly from play)
- Against Kildare, letting an 11 point lead slip to 4 points, including a wide open goal and penalty misses by Kildare, without Offaly scoring a single point.

I'm not having a go at him, but if Kilmurray had presided over the same sort of reign there'd be a different view on matters.

If Kilmurray had sent an Offaly side into championship as badly prepared as last year's, with as bad a league run and persisting with the same poor selections, he'd have been chased out of the county with pitchforks.

[Lone Shark]

If the championship was the be all and the end all, then that would be fair enough - however while that once was the case, it really isn't any more, even more now. As such getting promotion under Fahey is a clear point in his favour. Equally he wasn't helped by Cathal Daly's injury (depending on who you listen to) in the game against Wexford. The goals were down to Kelly's mistakes under the high ball, and several of the points were shots that as a back you would let your opposite number take - Forde just couldn't miss that day. As for the Westmeath loss, well we lost by a wide ball to the only Westmeath team that was good enough to win Leinster in their history, and that with our best player having an absolute nightmare game at midfield. It's not nice one way or another, but all local rivalry apart, it wasn't a horrendous defeat either.

Not trying to say he did well, but I genuinely think we were no worse off when he left than when he took over.

Pat Roe is a different story. If things don't improve shortly we'll be getting the flint out to sharpen the prongs of the pitchforks just to make sure the earnestness of the message is not lost.

[The Magpie]

A lot of the legacy of the successful years was pissed away that day in Carlow.

LS, for somebody that generally has a balanced view, that's an outrageous statement. I had to double check that wasn't written by OF.

I'm closer to Barracuda's way of thinking here - nobody liked losing to Carlow, but neither the supporters or the players have ever had high expectations through the back door. To suggest that defeat had such ramifications is almost comical.

KK really is the chink in your armor

[turk]

If the championship was the be all and the end all, then that would be fair enough - however while that once was the case, it really isn't any more, even more now. As such getting promotion under Fahey is a clear point in his favour. Equally he wasn't helped by Cathal Daly's injury (depending on who you listen to) in the game against Wexford. The goals were down to Kelly's mistakes under the high ball, and several of the points were shots that as a back you would let your opposite number take - Forde just couldn't miss that day. As for the Westmeath loss, well we lost by a wide ball to the only Westmeath team that was good enough to win Leinster in their history, and that with our best player having an absolute nightmare game at midfield. It's not nice one way or another, but all local rivalry apart, it wasn't a horrendous defeat either.

Not trying to say he did well, but I genuinely think we were no worse off when he left than when he took over.

Pat Roe is a different story. If things don't improve shortly we'll be getting the flint out to sharpen the prongs of the pitchforks just to make sure the earnestness of the message is not lost.

There's a lot of ifs buts and maybes there LS.

Kilmurray had a better record than Fahy and Roe and therefore was a bigger success

[Lone Shark]

A lot of the legacy of the successful years was pissed away that day in Carlow.

LS, for somebody that generally has a balanced view, that's an outrageous statement. I had to double check that wasn't written by OF.

I'm closer to Barracuda's way of thinking here - nobody liked losing to Carlow, but neither the supporters or the players have ever had high expectations through the back door. To suggest that defeat had such ramifications is almost comical.

KK really is the chink in your armor

It's not about high expectations, or that we were All Ireland winners in waiting or anything like that. The fact was that we played that day like a team that was just fulfilling a fixture, and while some counties can get away with that, we can't. We had a reputation as a hard to beat team that fought to the death. While no one game can erode that, it can get chipped away, and that day in Carlow was less a blow of a chisel and more a blow of a pick axe...

[Lone Shark]

Kilmurray had a better record than Fahy and Roe and therefore was a bigger success

????

More so than Roe? Certainly. Than Fahy? No, I ain't buying it.

By that logic a one point loss to Kerry is a worse result than a one point win over London. Nah.

[turk]

Kilmurray had a better record than Fahy and Roe and therefore was a bigger success

????

More so than Roe? Certainly. Than Fahy? No, I ain't buying it.

By that logic a one point loss to Kerry is a worse result than a one point win over London. Nah.

Kilmurray took Offaly to a Leinster final! Fahy got them knocked out by Westmeath! there's no Kerry v London aspect to the argument whatsoever!!!

[Lone Shark]

Kilmurray took Offaly to a Leinster final! Fahy got them knocked out by Westmeath! there's no Kerry v London aspect to the argument whatsoever!!!

Of course there is. Fahy lost to the Leinster champions by a wide, Kilmurray lost to the Leinster Champions by nine points. The difference was that in 2006 we got a very nice draw with a lot of beatable teams on the way - Fahy never had that luxury. Under him we drew a good team in the first round.

[turk]

Kilmurray took Offaly to a Leinster final! Fahy got them knocked out by Westmeath! there's no Kerry v London aspect to the argument whatsoever!!!

Of course there is. Fahy lost to the Leinster champions by a wide, Kilmurray lost to the Leinster Champions by nine points. The difference was that in 2006 we got a very nice draw with a lot of beatable teams on the way - Fahy never had that luxury. Under him we drew a good team in the first round.

Westmeath were muck that day! Any reasonably motivated and well managed team would have beaten them, it was only as they progressed through Leinster did Westmeath start to add some extra resiliency and toughness and play well!

[Lone Shark]

I'm not saying it was a good day - however Westmeath V2004 were a better side than anything Kilmurray beat in 2006. In 2006 we would have lost to a much poorer Westmeath side but for the absence of Dessie.

Ultimately it's all hypothetical and there's no clear right or wrong, but I'm afraid I find Fahey a lot easier to forgive than Kilmurray.

[The Magpie]

Kilmurray took Offaly to a Leinster final! Fahy got them knocked out by Westmeath! there's no Kerry v London aspect to the argument whatsoever!!!

Of course there is. Fahy lost to the Leinster champions by a wide, Kilmurray lost to the Leinster Champions by nine points. The difference was that in 2006 we got a very nice draw with a lot of beatable teams on the way - Fahy never had that luxury. Under him we drew a good team in the first round.

Kilmurray's team lost to one of the best teams in the country. Fahy's team lost to a team that (even when they won Leinster) you'd have done well to squeeze into the top 8 teams in the country.

[Lone Shark]

Fahy's lost by a wide, Kilmurray's lost by nine points - and there is no way thee would have been nine points between Westmeath 04 and Dublin 06. Four points maybe, or five.


I'm aware that there will be different viewpoints, and each to their own, but you won't change mine I'm afraid.

[Barracuda]

I think all the last few posts help make the point very well , how do you judge progress and or results
Take this comment from LS for example

It's not about high expectations, or that we were All Ireland winners in waiting or anything like that. The fact was that we played that day like a team that was just fulfilling a fixture, and while some counties can get away with that, we can't. We had a reputation as a hard to beat team that fought to the death. While no one game can erode that, it can get chipped away, and that day in Carlow was less a blow of a chisel and more a blow of a pick axe...

I said it was not important for the reasons as outlined in my previous post and I still believe that, however i apprecaite the above argument you provide LS. None the less if that theory held true then Carlow should have hammered us last year again or at least competed better,Im sure that will be explained with another reason.
The difference was Championship.

The Man from Ferbane suggested it was an all time low or sometime similar and not acceptable, the game was not that important , someone tell me why nearly every team in Offaly have beaten Rhode in the league for the last few years and yet they are and would be considered the top team over the last 3 years - because the league dont count folks, Yes you need to stay up in the divisions 1 or 2 to get the competitive games but at the end of the day ya get judged on where are we in Leinster and that judging is done during the championship where there is nowhere to hide.

I suggest results count and Championship results at that- no matter how you get them.
3 "weak teams" to get to a Leinster final and yet we make excuses why we did not beat Westmeath and we condsidered that a sucess.

The point I was hoping to highlight is at the end of this term how will we judge JD and JP- will we make excuses to suit either one if we like them rather than stand back and look at the real results, and of course justify other reasons why certain people were a failure- like LS re Killmurray - when clearly it was our most recent successful time.( only stirring it there LS dont pass any remarks on me)

Hey Losing to Carlow was not nice but it needs to be put into some sort of perspective though.

We lost to Kilkenny in a Leinster final and won the All Ireland the same year- that is a success. I for one cant remember how we did in the league that year or who we beat or who beat us- im sure lots out there will rush to tell me and maybe we have a great record in that years league- I honestly dont know beacsue in the average guys head (im average i promise) the Championship is master- the rest is just shaping up for the real thing.
If we get to the Leinster final or better still if we win it - who will argue that this was a terrble disaster of a year- remember DCU hammered us of the field in a very important home game at the start of the year- a very low point.