Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

[True Red]

1. it is possible to properly prepare a county underage team while managing a club team? Yes or No.

Just to give a concrete example of this situation......in 2001 Edenderry Senior footballers had Tom cribbin as their manager. During this time he was also manager of Kildare Minor Footballers. We won the Senior Championship and Kildare got to the Leinster semi-final.

It can be done.And successfully at that.

He had very little respect for the Offaly jersey when he was a player and now is the exact same.

A preposterous statement about a man that was the last Offaly man to lift the Bob O'Keeffe cup and captained his county in an All-Ireland Final. How would Offaly's Future be qualified to comment about respect for anything when he denigrate's this forum and the members on it daily witth his sniping and condescending remarks.He brings down the character of this forum and I for one am quite sick of his particular style of diatribe.

[Offalys Future]

gggggggggggggg

[True Red]

And so Tom Cribbin just turned up on the day of the championship games for each team and worked miracles? He didnt put in any preparatory work at all? Will you get a grip for Jays sake.

Its obvious that you have no direct involvement with any team or club. For you to continually come out with such facetious remarks illustrates this fact. Any team manager that takes over a team whether it be an under 10 "B" team or Senior inter county will tell you that it takes a huge personal committment in terms of time,effort etc.

So am not really sure your point regarding Tom Cribbins?

I will spell it out for you seeing as you failed to grasp it on the first occasion. MANAGING A CLUB SENIOR TEAM AS WELL AS A COUNTY MINOR TEAM CAN BE ACHIEVED.

Successfully or not? It depends on the quality of players available.

That my dear fellow is a fact.

[Offalys Future]

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[Barracuda]

OF - I've a question for you- a serious one at that, and no im not trying to take the mickey here - have you ever in your life been wrong at all about anything or are you always right ?
For once just once would you consider saying something like " Right I see your point of view and perhaps your argument has merit" but no, you always seem to be 100% right and thats it- you put up points for discussion and when we try to discuss them we are wrong and thats it. When you are challenged you tell us "we candle handle the truth" ( forgive me for stealing that line from the movies) or we have no ambition or stuff like that, most of the time time to be fair your arguments are good but hey they are NOT absolute and other points of view should always be considered before lashing in.


Finally for what its worth my personal opinion on JP is that he would not be the ideal man for the job but having said that Ive seen this County appoint many managers for jobs who were not ideal canditates if you consider the criteria you mentioned earlier on concerning- leadship, role model, experience,track record etc etc.
I suggest atrack record and experience are the most important ones becasue by default it asumes they must have all the other qualities or they would not have a good track record of wining and delivering as a manager.
Yet we have appointed a Manager over the senior Hurlers who has no track record but i think from your posts you rate the guy very highly. Why not afford JP the same respect.
Please dont highlight how they as individuals trained or played etc as this has now very little with how they will perform as Managers (in my opinion), Track record for both has yet to be established, Mullagh was not a fantastic sucess for JP and Toomevara was a diasaster for JD ( lasting only a few wet weeks there before being asked to leave again)
Allegedy of course ....... Point being why back one and not the other when neither has a great track record.

[Offalys Future]

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[The Magpie]

OF, I think somebody may have asked you a question along these lines recently. I'd be interested to know how things have changed in the hurling camp. What kinds of things have you seen that have impressed you?

Unlike the football, I'm definitely more detached from the hurling scene in the County.

[Offalys Future]

Magpie have a look at the topic moving forward.

[Barracuda]

In Johnny Pilkingtons case i know the carry on that went on at Mullagh and his appointment as manager of the minors really angers me. We are trying to move forward but over the last few months he hasnt when about things in a correct manner. And when i heard about the Castletown appointment it is just ridiculous.
Now of course you disagree but sher we will just have to wait until the minors play championship and see how good he is then.
But of course the excuse then will be that the players aren't good enough and nothing will be said about his lack of most things that a good manager needs to have.
In offaly we should be trying to move forward and we should be aiming for high levels of coaching/committment/interest etc. For me with this years minor management we are not getting that and therefore we are taking steps back instead of forward.

That's a fair enough answer OF. The only reservation or comment I'd have is - then we should judge JD's term of office on the same terms. If both teams (Senior and Minor) do badly we should apply the same judgement criteria across the board- results are key. Because we could all say the preparation was this and that and the players were this and that but unless we get the results or see real tangable progress then its a failure - for both of them.
While appreciating you say JD is doing the right things - this will only be borne out in results. We would all be delighted if he and JP get the results.
The only thing (on this occasion!) I disagree on is not allowing JP a fair crack at the job, I would not have appointed him either, or JD for that matter but now that they are both appointed I think we should reserve judgement till we see the results.
You know what happened in Mullagh and i cant challenge you on that- fair enough- but I know what happened in Toomevara, perhaps the difference here is that JD may be a fast learner- lets hope so, we need him to be.

I met a guy recently who I'd have a bit of time for and he asked me who was the better- Kelly,Fahy- Killmurry or Roe- before long he explained why it was Kilmurray- Results.
The funny thing is that very few people here would agree with that conclusion. We did however beat 3 Leinster teams in the Championship and contest a Leinster Final, how long will it be again before we contest one.... So results are key. Then we (County Board) threw him out instead of trying to find what else was needed to drive it on further.....Baby and bath tub went flying.

LS- I know you wont agree ( or I think you wont agree) but sure isnt that half the fun.

[True Red]

(I'll just throw my helmet on the ground like Brian Lohan used to do in the heat of the battle)

For me these lads either dont have time or dont know what they are talking about. The Kildare/Tom Cribbins topic is one such debate

First of all you arrogant clown, the point i was making as regards Tom Criibin etc was in response to Turks question on page 4 of this topic. I was highlighting a precedent where the aformentioned manager took on 2 teams and did it successfully.And you can argue all you want about Kildare winning the Leinster under 21 in 2004. Young men improve at different rates and the make up of that Kildare under 21 team was substantially different to the one that was under Cribbin's tutelage in 2001.That is a fact.

I noted your lack of a response when i queried your statement regarding Johnny P's lack of pride in the Offaly jersey?

Why was this?

Maybe the reason for this was that you could never question Pilkington's unwavering championship commitment to an excpetional Offaly team. Nobody can deny this.Not even yourself from way up there on your pedestal even though the sizeable chips on both shoulders are conspiring to bring you back down to earth with the rest of us mere mortals.

[Offalys Future]

gggggggggggggggg

[True Red]

I take my hat off to you Offaly's Future. You have just summed up your attitude with the closing statement on your last post.

"Its my ball and you cant have it"

Ah did i upset you? Just because you didnt like what i was saying you tell me to "go away and stop annoying you".Heres an idea.How about responding to my points instead of sulking in the corner.

I can assure that I am here to stay.And i was here long before you were buddy.Just look at the amount of my posts.

(I apologise for this bulls*it situation to all the other users on the Forum but this guy states that he backs up his opinions with reasoned facts but then when someone has the gravitas to challenge him he shows how immature he is by responding in a childlike fashion)

[Offalys Future]

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[Lone Shark]

I met a guy recently who I'd have a bit of time for and he asked me who was the better- Kelly,Fahy- Killmurry or Roe- before long he explained why it was Kilmurray- Results.
The funny thing is that very few people here would agree with that conclusion. We did however beat 3 Leinster teams in the Championship and contest a Leinster Final, how long will it be again before we contest one.... So results are key. Then we (County Board) threw him out instead of trying to find what else was needed to drive it on further.....Baby and bath tub went flying.

LS- I know you wont agree ( or I think you wont agree) but sure isnt that half the fun.

Let's not forget Kilmurray was also in charge for such results as the loss to Carlow, and the appalling loss to the Dubs in Parnell Park. A 2 point defeat on paper, one of the worst performances in Offaly's history in practice. We may have got to the Leinster final, but we also had a perfect run up to it. A Dessie-less Westmeath, an untested Kildare where we hit them for goals and a very average Wexford team who just had a hot day against Meath before that.

Paul O'Kelly will always be the one that would have got us places if he had been kept on in my mind, but assuming you take the losses (after draws in 70 minutes) to Laois and Roscommon at face value, it's not unfair to say that he didn't put a lot of big wins on the mantlepiece.

[Barracuda]

Let's not forget Kilmurray was also in charge for such results as the loss to Carlow, and the appalling loss to the Dubs in Parnell Park. A 2 point defeat on paper, one of the worst performances in Offaly's history in practice. We may have got to the Leinster final, but we also had a perfect run up to it. A Dessie-less Westmeath, an untested Kildare where we hit them for goals and a very average Wexford team who just had a hot day against Meath before that.

Paul O'Kelly will always be the one that would have got us places if he had been kept on in my mind, but assuming you take the losses (after draws in 70 minutes) to Laois and Roscommon at face value, it's not unfair to say that he didn't put a lot of big wins on the mantlepiece.

I knew you wouldnt resist a crack at my comments.
See thats exactly what I was trying to to point out to OF regarding judging JD and JP at year end.
Results are key- important results - in Championship - not how lucky we were to get there - some would say we were "lucky" to beat Kerry and with a push at that,and them heading for 5 in a row ( i think we were great)

But the same balance or excuses can be made for such losses as you mentioned above.

Carlow loss- not important- we were going nowhere once out of Leinster. We and the Team knew the show was over for the year. You might not agree but that was the case, we were hardy likely to win the all ireland that way. Leinster was and still is our first achievable target.

Dubs- No excuse- Dubs on fire, we was brutal- but again it was an away game under lights and while of some importance not like championship.We competed very well in the Leinster amd we got there to compete by beating what was put in front of us
No matter how easy or perfect the run is ya still got to beat them and we did.

By the way we were fierce unlucky to loose to Laois with that last minute goal the year before ........ Nah not really we should not have taken off our free taker, but still we were rite there till the end and with a bit of luck - who knows (see you cant ell it from both sides)

Kildare- we hit them with goals- yes thats a fact, but if we won with points you could say we hit them with points- we had to go and get them all the same.

The point being when measuring Results you dont really look at lucky or how the other team played, Yes you can review our progress and where we are coming from too but its too easy to justify progress by saying we played well etc.

Our Minor teams of recent years have been pretty sucessful and our U21 footballers last year too, whereas I would say our U21 Hurlers made no progress last year as such- We beat a poor Kilkenny side and got pretty well beaten by Dub who in turn where put to the sword later on.

The glass being half empty or half full

I apprecaite that JD might be doing the right things as such but at the end of the day the results will tell us if he was doing the right things or not. Ditto for JP
If JD can establish us firmly as the number 2 hurling team in Leinster this year then in my opinion thats progress.

What one person might think is the right thing, may not be shared by another persons view point. I dont agree with Pat Roe running the daylites out of every tom, dick and harry up and down croghan hill but if he gets results then he is rite.
If he doesnt was he doing the wrong things ?

To finish- LS good arguments but not good enough, however id agree with you that Paul Kelly should be up there too, as being pretty sucessful.