WHERE TO PLAY JOE BERGIN ???

[the weasel]

I heard recently that joe bergin is going to be tried out at centre back this year in sum walsh cup and league games. I was just wondering if ye think this is a good or bad idea. Personally i think we need him more in the forwards but if he dosent play well like last year then it better for him to be one of our best players in the backs (which i think he would be) or struggle to make the team in the forwards(if he plays like last year). What is your thoughts on this matter?

[Bogman]

Centre Back for Joe Bergin! He was a fine Minor Inter-County player in that position and he seems to be playing it well for his club!

[Offalys Future]

I think his best position is full forward.
Two years ago he was very impressive at that position.
Last year he got less than 30 minutes at full forward between all the games. McIntyre treated him poorly. Joe himself probably let himself believe that after his impressive first year that he had made it and didnt have to work as hard.
In the u-21 final he was left in full forward as part of a 2 man full forward line but Dublin had left 3 in their full back line. I admit his worst performance was probably vs Kilkenny in the u-21 match.
Once he was taken off vs Kilkenny his marker Tommy Walsh really came into the game.

I think he could turn into a great player. He has courage, speed, can strike off both sides, height. If any of you were at the game last year against Wexford in the league he scored one of the best goals i have seen in years. He stood toe to toe with his man a high ball came in he caught turned and ran straight for goal, he scored a fantastic goal and in process had to come off after he was fouled.

I think Joe Dooley could really work with him and turn him into a top class forward.

For me it's Full Forward.

[Lone Shark]

At the risk of sounding biased, I'm going to go ahead with this anyway.....

Offaly hurling has a lot of problems - however I don't think centre back is one of our biggest ones. David Kenny might not trip off the tongue along with Keith Rossitter and Ken McGrath in terms of the best number 6's playing the game at the moment, but if you were to list Offaly's problem positions last year, centre back was down the list. We have a quite ineffectual and small forward line who struggled to win dirty ball and defend from the front. Why oh why in that situation would you take out our best forward (who just had a degree of second season syndrome last year) and move him back into our back line which is not nearly as much of a problem?

It defies logic for me.

Full forward makes perfect sense for the man as far as I'm concerned, possibly dropping out to the 45 with our centre forward hanging loose for breaks for puckouts. The full back won't follow that far, and the centre back won't know who to mark. Gary Hanniffy and Molloy on the wings to give other options.

[Offalys Future]

It seems though Joe Dooley is serious about winning something this year and in order to do that you need a very good centre back, while it wasnt our main area of concern last year i still feel that David Kenny isnt good enough to hurl that position.

Daniel Currams is a really good hurler so if he can produce it come championship i think it might be a great move to hurl Joe centre back. Time will tell.

[Bord na Mona man]

I'm starting to think we could have a good half back line forming here.
The great thing about Bergin at CB is that he has power to drive forward and hit the ball on the forward foot, like Seanie McMahon. Also he has the full array of strokes which makes him very hard to be hooked, blocked or bottled up. He is well able to bomb his clearances far up the field too.

David Kenny is a very promising player and probably needs to develop the power aspect to his game. He is good at being evasive and I'd love to see him being confident of brushing tacklers off him instead of having to weave his way around him. I think wing back could be his position for the next while.

Diarmuid Horan looks technically good and tenacious also.

Kenny, Bergin and Horan have youth on the side and have plenty of time to learn their trade.

[Lone Shark]

It seems though Joe Dooley is serious about winning something this year and in order to do that you need a very good centre back

It has evolved into probably the most important position on the pitch, so on the face of it I could disagree with that, but I think Kenny has great potential and with a little extra power will be a natural cente back in years to come. Perhaps Bergin is the better solution in the meantime with Kenny developing at 7, but I'd still want to be very sure that we have forwards who can win messy and 40/60 ball before moving Bergin out of there. Currams is a good talent who certainly has plenty of hurling in his wrists, but I've never seen him as a ferocious scrapper for loose ball in any game so far. Have I missed that element to his game?

[Offalys Future]

what i was trying to say was that at the moment i dont think Kenny is good enough if Offaly want to win something. I think he can progress but at moment no. I think Dooley sees this and thats why he has put Bergin back there. I think he should hurl Rory Haniffy on the wing with the other between Kevin Brady/Horan/Hayden and Kenny. Thats my opinion on that for the moment. I dont think Kevin Brady will work at Full Back come championship.

Just regarding the messy and 40/60 ball.
You only have to win that type of ball if you play that type of ball. I think Currams done alot of hard work off ball against Wexford and in last ten minutes he stopped stamp from clearing a crucial ball. The goal he scored was scramble around square too so he well capable of getting stuck in. It's up the manager to get the team playing the type of hurling that will suit the players that play.
I'm not saying every ball will be perfect for the forwards but if that did happen i am sure Currams is well able for it.

[Lone Shark]

At the risk of jumping on an old hobby horse, as long as Kevin Brady plays in any Offaly back line the forwards will have to get used to trying to win mishit, badly directed, lobbing ball. Sorry if that's blunt, and I've nothing against the guy, but he's a heartbreaker to watch as far as I'm concerned.

I wasn't there on Sunday but I'd be amazed if Horan is really turning into a championship option so soon. My gut feeling looking at him last year was that he was a fine hurler in the making, but that he was a 20 year old with the build of a 17 year old - he was a lot more for 2010 than 2008. If he gives another option then all well and good, but I'm amazed that he'd be a realistic option alongside Hayden and Kenny.

I know in theory you want forwards to be working with low targetted deliveries, but the truth is that's not how it works out and we need to be prepared for that. I feel like I've been looking at Offaly backsmen clearing ball into a handball alley for the entirity of this decade, which I've no doubt Joe Dooley is aware of too with the selection of Ger Oakley up there. If Currams is able for it, so much the better. God knows there are forward places there to be won and fair play to him if he's putting his hand up fo one of the slots.

[Offalys Future]

Lone shark Horan will be tested big time in the league, i think he a good hurler and will push hard for a championship place. I think you worry too much about build. Tommy Walsh and Cha Fitzpatrick/ Richie Power have no different a build than Horan. He is a very talented stick man and an intelligent hurler. A few tough opponents in the league could be the making of him.

Have to say i am disappointed that Odhran Kealey and Ciaran Slevin aren't involved. From what i hear Kealey hasnt been asked in and Slevin declined. Joe brought on Joe Brady and Damien Murray last Sunday but my opinion is that they arent good enough and i doubt if they ever will be. I aint questioning their committment before ye start i just dont think they add much to the team, thats just my opinion.

[Lone Shark]

I think that for a few years to come we'll always be playing catch up with some of the bigger teams in terms of conditioning, since they have a lot of residual fitness built up over years when we weren't really at the races. One of the starkest images from last year was in the game in Cork when Seán Óg - albeit as powerful an athlete as is playing the game today - absolutely burst though Gary Hanniffy and cleared a ball on the stand side wing in the first half. Gary is one of our more powerful players, and he wasn't on the same page as Séan Óg. In that regard we do have a long way to go.

It's because of that, and the fact that we have a lot of smaller lads who will be playing anyway, that i think we need to place a lot of store by physique. Also, in the case of players like Kealey, Currams and Horan, these are guys who we should be in no rush to bring along. A lad like Bergin or Joe Brady at 19 years of age is one thing - these are guys who could be obliterated by some of the men they would come up against over the course of a years county hurling. I mean Horan at wing back would probably have to mark Dan Shanahan, Tony Griffin, Martin Comerford and the likes over the course of a year if he played there - there's no point putting out a guy who's two stone of muscle light of his optimum weight in that situation.

Tommy Walsh is no comparison either - he's hardly your typical 5'8" guy - he's probably one of the spikiest playes in the game, as well as being one of the best. Might as well compare them to Junior Witter or some such for all the relevance there is in fairness - in two or three years maybe, but not now.

Joe brought on Joe Brady and Damien Murray last Sunday but my opinion is that they arent good enough and i doubt if they ever will be. I aint questioning their committment before ye start i just dont think they add much to the team, thats just my opinion.

Very fair observation. I was a big Joe Brady fan when he was under 21, particularly when he was thriving in a strong WIT team while other current Offaly hurlers were warming the bench down there, and I hated the way people were dismissing him as too slow and awkward at 20 years of age. The fact is that through a combination of bad management and lack of development, he isn't county standard right now. The best thing that could happen for Joe Brady would be if county management, Coolderry management and Joe himself sat down and tried to decide where his best role is in a team and try to get him familiar with one position. This being bumped all over the shop between 6, 11 and 14 means he's performing as a stop gap everywhere and never gets to settle. Spend at least a full year in the one shirt for Coolderry, and then by all means look at him again - it's not like there isn't a good 7 or 8 years left in him age-wise at county level.

Murray is another matter entirely. His free taking was much improved, but you are all but sacrificing an outfield player just to accomodate a free-taker when you pick him. He loses ball he should win, he never closes down defenders effectively and he's too easily intimidated. No sign of that changing, so much better in my view work on someone else to be the free taker and move on.

[Offalys Future]

I think Horan would be able for it now. He contests the high ball in the air trying to catch it mostly alot like tommy walsh. I wasnt comparing them earlier as hurlers merely just therir build is similar.
Who's to say Diarmuid Horan cant be as good as Tommy Walsh? He certainly has the potential if you ask me.

[corner back]

"Tommy Walsh is no comparison either - he's hardly your typical 5'8" guy"

...true, he's about 5'11"

[Offalys Future]

5'10 actually!

[Lone Shark]

Madness - I met him one night about two years ago and purely based on eye I though 5'8" was being kind to him. He is fairly small in person as well as on TV. Ae you sure it's not those ridiculous RTE stats ye're going on? (The same ones that tried to make Niall Mac 6'3"....)