Sean Ryan - Decision Time

[Bogman]

I have to say that's a Top Post by Overview above. Good Stuff Man - HEART AND KNOWLEDGE!!!

[Barracuda]

I think i have said enough on this subject and ye all know my thoughts.
One thing i was told that he aggravated his leg injury playing in a gaelic football game a few weeks before the county final.

I feel it is not possible for a player to play both codes if both the county teams are serious about winning something and being the best they can be.

Yes Sean Ryan did aggravate his leg injury in a gaelic fotball game a few weeks before the county final- but it was already injured.Not sure what point you are making here- if the chap was playing only marbles and already had a leg injury and tried to play before it was repaired he would aggravate the injury again. Thats nothing to do with playing both codess- thats got to do with player management.In other words are you suggesting it would not have been a problem if he was playing hurling only?
As a matter of fact he aggravated that injury by playing hurling when he already had the injury . Dont get player management (concerning injuries)mixed up with playing both codes, bad management of injuries happens with single code players all the time.

While you feel its not possible for a player to play both codes etc there are many many more of us who disagree with your opinion.
Perhaps it's lucky for Sean Ryan this county is NOT serious in winning something in both codes, And that is not just a throw away remark but unfortunatley its the way it is at the moment.
For starters, allowing Pat Roe to carry on for another year with his "antics" and mismanagement is not being serious about winning- sorry.So the lad in my opinion should continue to "ride" both horses, its far from decision time yet for Sean Ryan, Time enough when their are decisons to be made, but for now its not an issue or a concern for him,he should enjoy both codes until he (like most of us) knows its time to make a decsion.

[Offalys Future]

I cant let this statement go.

Yes Sean Ryan did aggravate his leg injury in a gaelic fotball game a few weeks before the county final- but it was already injured.Not sure what point you are making here- if the chap was playing only marbles and already had a leg injury and tried to play before it was repaired he would aggravate the injury again. Thats nothing to do with playing both codess- thats got to do with player management.In other words are you suggesting it would not have been a problem if he was playing hurling only?

This has to go down as one of the most outrageous statements that i have ever read in my life. To say that Sean Ryan playing with an injured leg in a football game had no effect on his injury and his recovery time is crazy. You have to be winding me up here.

While you feel its not possible for a player to play both codes etc there are many many more of us who disagree with your opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion but you have to back it up with proof and facts.
And the facts are that in 2007 no player from Kilkenny/Cork/Waterford/Dublin/Tipperary/Clare/Limerick/Galway and the list goes on did not play hurling and football in both leagues and both championships. And the reason is because by doing so players have a greater chance of getting injured. Which is now the case with Sean Ryan.

Perhaps it's lucky for Sean Ryan this county is NOT serious in winning something in both codes, And that is not just a throw away remark but unfortunatley its the way it is at the moment.

he should enjoy both codes until he (like most of us) knows its time to make a decsion.

[/quote][/quote]

Maybe your not serious but i can assure you that the hurlers are. They have been mistreated in the last 3 years by a joke of a manager, and now things have changed and they are serious about winning something.

Like i wrote before:
As for Sean Ryan he can do what he likes but i'm sure he doesnt enjoy not been able to start in a hurling county final with his club becasue he got injured playing football.
I'm sure he doesnt like coming on in the same county final and hitting a ball 10 yards wide from the 21m line.
Am sure he doesnt like the abuse that the Birr sideline gave him against Shinrone in this years championship game in Rath which was shocking.
Enjoying the above? i doubt it very much.

[Barracuda]

Yes Sean Ryan did aggravate his leg injury in a gaelic fotball game a few weeks before the county final- but it was already injured.Not sure what point you are making here- if the chap was playing only marbles and already had a leg injury and tried to play before it was repaired he would aggravate the injury again. Thats nothing to do with playing both codess- thats got to do with player management.In other words are you suggesting it would not have been a problem if he was playing hurling only?

This has to go down as one of the most outrageous statements that i have ever read in my life. To say that Sean Ryan playing with an injured leg in a football game had no effect on his injury and his recovery time is crazy. You have to be winding me up here.

Let me help you little here, Try reading my comment above again and THEN try to figure out your own point (above).
Please please show me where I said "To say that Sean Ryan playing with an injured leg in a football game had no effect on his injury and his recovery time is crazy" I cant see where I wrote that can you ?? I stated the obvious which you were harping on about earlier on in the thread, and that is "if anoyone tries to play with an injury they will make it worse"

Barracuda wrote:
While you feel its not possible for a player to play both codes etc there are many many more of us who disagree with your opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion but you have to back it up with proof and facts.
And the facts are that in 2007 no player from Kilkenny/Cork/Waterford/Dublin/Tipperary/Clare/Limerick/Galway and the list goes on did not play hurling and football in both leagues and both championships. And the reason is because by doing so players have a greater chance of getting injured. Which is now the case with Sean Ryan.

You do know ,I suppose thats if you are very well informed, that in close to 100% of the time no Manager will accept a dual player- remember all the rows over who dual players should train with etc. We have seen this first hand with Neville Coughlan in Offaly- with both Managers telling him he must commit to one. Thats why you dont see it that much becasue the FACT of the matter is that the managers wont facilitate it.Not becasue of burnout or any shit like that but beacause of Managers insisting the get 100% priority each. Of course the more games you play the higher the risk of injury but its about the training regime more so than the games. If Sean for example was doing the physical training with the Fottballers then he only needs to do the skills with the Hurlers- but would this be allowed- Im afraid not.

Perhaps it's lucky for Sean Ryan this county is NOT serious in winning something in both codes, And that is not just a throw away remark but unfortunatley its the way it is at the moment.

he should enjoy both codes until he (like most of us) knows its time to make a decsion.[/quote][/quote]

Maybe your not serious but i can assure you that the hurlers are. They have been mistreated in the last 3 years by a joke of a manager, and now things have changed and they are serious about winning something.

When we are the 2nd best team in Leinster and when that gap is very very close then I will believe you.Remember we have just appointed a new Manager with no pedigree in Management, what i mean is no track record in Hurling management at this level.Thats why I question how serious we are. The next 2 years are critical before we can say how we are getting on.


Like i wrote before:

As for Sean Ryan he can do what he likes but i'm sure he doesnt enjoy not been able to start in a hurling county final with his club becasue he got injured playing football.

See you really need to get your facts right first, Sean hurt his hamstring (first time) in Pullagh traing the week before the Coolderry game with Birr- FACT !!!. Birr then warmed him up only 10 days later to bring him on in that game- bad player management- which is what i claiming all along.The injury never got time to heal and he was deemed as "okay" in Birr, to play as required, when in fact he was seriously injured all the time since the Pullagh training evening.

I'm sure he doesnt like coming on in the same county final and hitting a ball 10 yards wide from the 21m line.

He needs to work on his skills, because Sean does things are very high speed in general he does not slow down when hitting the ball- he needs to work on this- thats all- nothing to do with kicking a football.

Am sure he doesnt like the abuse that the Birr sideline gave him against Shinrone in this years championship game in Rath which was shocking.

??? im lost on this one, who does like this,Surely thats nothing to do with kicking a football ?? but even players who only play one code get this kind of abuse!


Enjoying the above? i doubt it very much.

Lister and listen good for once- The problem with the dual player is the Managers, and not the players suffering burnout beacuse of it. Burnout is happening all obver the place even with single code players because of Managers insisting "I dont care who you trained with this morning you will train with me now because i say so"

[Offalys Future]

There are 3 issues here.

1. Sean Ryan Injury
2. Sean Ryan - Hurler
3. Dual Players

1.
Sean Ryan injured his leg training but two weeks before the Offaly hurling final he went and played a football match. Now unless you are crazy, by him playing this football game he jeopardised his chances of playing in the hurling final and also Birrs chances of winning the final. He also could have caused himself a very serious injury by playing this game. He made this decision himself to play in the football nobody made this decision for him.
Also people should note that for 3 weeks he didnt bother getting much physio in Offaly or in Limerick. Again nothing to do with poor management - his decision.

2.
Like i have always said he has the potential to be a great hurler but he is far from that now. Apart from his display in the u-21 game vs KK last year, 40 mins against Tipperary and a few clubs games he has been pretty poor overall.
The only way he can improve as a hurler is if he concentrates solely on hurling.
But like all young players Brian Carroll etc he is being over-hyped when he hasnt nearly proved himself yet.

3.
Dual Players
You look at any dual player there has been for the last 5 years. Sean Og, Stephen Lucey, Alan Kerins, Neville Coughlan, Brendan Cummins, Conal Keaney
Look at any of the above and any dual player in fact. They are not as good at 1 game as the other. so it only makes sense that their manager is going to want them to train more in order to improve more.

Sean Og since he left the football panel has been one of the best hurlers in the country.
Stephen Lucey was an average hurler, he concentrated solely on hurling last year and he was arguably the best full back in the country.
Since Alan Kerins left the Galway Footballers he has consistently performed to a high level in the big games.
When Brendan Cummins left the Tipp Footballers he won a Goal Keeping All-Star and played his best hurling.
Since Neville Coughlan left the hurling panel he has played his best football.
Conal Keaney was an average footballer, since he left the hurling panel he has now become one of the top footballers in the country.

It has been proven over and over again that when a dual player gives up one game and concentrates on the other his performances improve if he is willing to put in the work like the above did.
Now contrary to what you think - It is not possible for any player or athlete in Ireland or the world to play two different sports and to perform to their maximum capacity in these sports. Impossible.

[Barracuda]

Sean Ryan injured his leg training but two weeks before the Offaly hurling final he went and played a football match. Now unless you are crazy, by him playing this football game he jeopardised his chances of playing in the hurling final and also Birrs chances of winning the final. He also could have caused himself a very serious injury by playing this game. He made this decision himself to play in the football nobody made this decision for him.
Also people should note that for 3 weeks he didnt bother getting much physio in Offaly or in Limerick. Again nothing to do with poor management - his decision.

Not much point in putting out topics for discussion if you already are 100% that you are right - thankfully in this instance you are not right.

You are very misinformed on most aspects of your comments relating to Sean such as his injury and the management of it thereafter - very very misinformed. You could get a job writing with the Tribune in the sports section.

Any player very rarely makes the decison about whether he is playing/training or not- unless the injury is so obvious that the Manager has no option but to believe him and knows its not possible.
Neville has a leg injury we are told- and Roe wants him to train on it- yeah,but Neville is injured- so what happens- Roe drops him from the panel, the same panel he got injured while training with.
Message to players- "Dont train or play and we drop you"
Same message was and is there for Sean from Birr.
So the player will in nearly all cases play becasue they want to play and thats why the manager must understand the situation and protect them.
NOTHING TO DO WITH DUAL PLAYERS OKAY. This is goin on all the time with single code palyers. The injury is NOTHING to do with playing both codes- just a red herring.

I totally do not accept the argument that once some players gave up playing either game that the excelled in the other.
In every case and this is where we disagree - the team they opted for were serious about what they were doing and had a much better chance of success at the time. If both teams were as serious and both managers were agreeable it it possible- but in nearly all cases this is rare.


Anyway enough about young Sean- poor fellow must be totally confused with all this writing about him.
To to claim he did not look after or try to look after the recent injury is totally out of line and you should use this forum to say "sorry". Thats Tribune stuff- mainly misinformed and totally wrong.
The discussion about dual players is another matter. Ill not be saying anything more on this topic, the floor is yours.

[Hyper]

Katie Taylor springs to mind!

[Offalys Future]

Anything i have ever wrote on this forum about an individual is true.
And Sean Ryan case is no different, he had over a month and a half to get that injury right, but he didnt bother. If you are serious about minding yourself and your body with a hamstring injury then you need to be getting physio daily. He didnt. He can get physio in Limerick and in Offaly all paid for but he didnt bother. His decision.
He got physio yes but he didnt get not even half the treatment that he should have and could have got. His decision.

He played against Coolderry that was his decision. He played that u-21 football game his decision. He continues to be part of the ul setup - his decision.

Sean Ryan has hamstring problems. He doesnt get them looked after. He tries to play hurling and football. He can't do it, the last 12 months are proof of that.
Thats what the topic started off about and thats what i'll end it with.

[Barracuda]

Anything i have ever wrote on this forum about an individual is true.
And Sean Ryan case is no different, he had over a month and a half to get that injury right, but he didnt bother. If you are serious about minding yourself and your body with a hamstring injury then you need to be getting physio daily. He didnt. He can get physio in Limerick and in Offaly all paid for but he didnt bother. His decision.
He got physio yes but he didnt get not even half the treatment that he should have and could have got. His decision.

He played against Coolderry that was his decision. He played that u-21 football game his decision. He continues to be part of the ul setup - his decision.

Sean Ryan has hamstring problems. He doesnt get them looked after. He tries to play hurling and football. He can't do it, the last 12 months are proof of that.

Just couldnt let that mistruth stay out there unchalleneged.
You a Physio too ?
Physio Treatment every day for a hamstring? When every Physio will tell you every other day or every 2 t0 3 days is enough.

Sorry Chum but all thsoe decisions are taken out of his hands by the Managers, I explained that- did you not read it ?
Apart from all that management of an injury is nothing to do with him being a dual player- the original argument!

On the very last part of your crazy silly statement - I know and so do you (unless you live on the moon) many other players who have similar injuries and they play only one code so how stupid are they to be getting themselves injured when thats only for dual players.For example Karl Slattery (long term), only playing Football with his club and his county- 2 teams only and still injured - think yer leaking under the water line there.Paul McConway did not play yesterday -why- he is injured (Hamstring I understand) - was he hurling somewhere unknown to us.

Still time for that "sorry"- if you are not too proud.

[Offalys Future]

Just couldnt let that mistruth stay out there unchalleneged.
You a Physio too ?
Physio Treatment every day for a hamstring? When every Physio will tell you every other day or every 2 t0 3 days is enough.

Complete rubbish. Its 2007 we are in now not 1995. Any athlete with a serious hamstring injury needs to get it treated daily. Take a look at this link and come back to me when you know what your talking about.
http://www.whitesofwexford.ie/cryotherapy.html
Any athlete serious about treating an injury attends this clinic when they are trying to get their injury cleared. It has been scientifically proven that this treatment on a daily basis helps heal an injury, but you know what you know what your talking about ya??

And just also in that month and a half he didnt receive treatment every 2nd or 3rd day (2/3rd day which is it BTW?).

Sorry Chum but all thsoe decisions are taken out of his hands by the Managers, I explained that- did you not read it ?

Again complete rubbish. If Sean Ryan is injured then he says he is injured and doesnt play simple as that. Unless he was put at gun point to play with birr/u-21 football game and with ul. Which i doubt he was.

If Sean Ryan was not a dual player and was only playing football then he wouldnt have got injured training for Birr hurlers. And he would have been able to rest his body and prepare for the football season ahead. He wasnt able because he was playing hurling also. So therefore by Sean Ryan being a dual player he didnt get a chance to rest and risked further injury.

If Sean Ryan was not a dual player and was only playing hurling then when he got the injury training in Pullagh he should have been able to rest the injury but instead he went and played a football game and hurt the injury more.
So therefore by Sean Ryan beng a dual player he didnt get a chance to rest and he risked further injury.

Come back to me when you know what your talking about and want to start making a bit of sense will ya.

[Barracuda]

And there was me thinking it was an amatuer sport, someone tell Neville Coughlan and Paul McConway, Karol and all the others who are injured and who get injuries to head for Wexford and Offaly's Future will pay for it, By comparision that means these people are not serious about getting their injuries sorted -shame on them.They should be getting treatment every day in Wexford.


I note you never spoke about the single code players who are currently injured - why not ? Would it be because most of the arguments in your last post would also apply to them too.

Look please drop this thread - if you want to continue it please do so under the other Thread "Dual Players" and let this sillyness go.Sean is a fine young chap who is very serious about his sport and deserves our backing and not your snide comments.
Oh I suppose that means ya wont be saying sorry- thats the most annoying bit.After all it is Amatuer, even though most players do in the majority of cases try to be professional- including Sean.

[Offalys Future]

Have never written snide remarks. Not my fault you can't handle the truth.
On many occasions in the last ten years Brian Whelehan/Niall Claffey etc have travelled to the top physios in the country on the advice of the Birr Management. Paid by Birr GAA.
As have Offaly hurlers also paid by the Offaly County Board.

I know for a fact that 1 Offaly hurler took 2 days off work this year when he had an injury to attend this clinic, to be fit for a club game.

It's about doing that extra bit, that bit that nobody expects, but makes the world of difference. The mentality of winners something that is lacking in Offaly.

[Hyper]

Sure I know of eight club players that went down there last year and they wer not dual players!!!

[Lone Shark]

Lads I'm not just saying this because of the other thread, but instead because I think this has wound to a natural conclusion. For me to take a side now would only keep things going, so I'll just say that both sides of the argument have been covered in detail and it's now getting repetitive. There has been plenty of relevant stuff, and I don't think anyone has crossed the line into unacceptable personal comments myself, but even so I'd say that unless there's anything substantive that hasn't come up yet, it might be best wound down or left to private messages between ye.

Nothing personal, and I hope it's not taken as such, but when you read the whole thing in one lump you'd see what I mean....

[Offalys Future]

I'm happy enough with that. I've made my point and backed it up. No more to say.