Wrong Score.....What to do???

Square Cab · Post by **Square Cab** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:59 pm

At this stage I wont say what club Im from but id like ye're opinion on this one......

We played a Champioinship match last Sunday morning. Everything was going well until half-time came. As we walked off the pitch the ref was inevitably asked what the score was? To our surprise he had the match down as a draw. Without doubt we were leading by two points. Even the opposing management team agreed with our assertion. As we lined up to begin the second half, the ref (who I wont name at this stage) was informed of our belief that he had got the score wrong. He disagreed but admited that he may have made a mistake.....but doubted it! So the second half began and guessed what happened......our opponents scored a goal with literally the last kick of the game and we were out of the championship We made furious protests to the ref but to no avail. Its the first time I was ever involved in a Championship game where the ref got the score wrong. Its totally unacceptable. We put a huge amount of time, effort and expence into the championship this year for it all to be thrown away by a ref who refused to accept that he made a genuine mistake. Now dont get me wrong, we all make mistakes and thats a fact of life. But there should be some way we can appeal? Yesterday I read that a club in Wicklow are threatening legal action after the same thing happened to them at the weekend. We have sent in a letter of protest but we aren't holding out much hope.

Another point in all this is the lack of sportsmanship and honour among certain clubs in Offaly. The other team admited that a mistake had been made in relation to the scoreline but do you think they pleaded with the ref to correct the score....like hell they did. Its poor form. Is there any men of honour left in Offaly football??

the bare biffo · Post by **the bare biffo** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:45 pm

Maybe the old maths are a bit rusty but if he had the score wrong by two points doen't that mean ye were beat anyway !!!!!!!

And citing legal action in Wicklow is hardly the way forward.

To paraphrase what happens in the GAA should stay in the GAA, with the exception of gbh.

Hyper · Post by **Hyper** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:03 pm

Not if the team were winning by the two points when the goal was scored!

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:18 pm

I'd be inclined to agree that I wouldn't like to see the courts being used in this situation - however it is a particularly hard way to make your exit from the championship.

However there are two points from your post that I'd like to pick up on....

Now dont get me wrong, we all make mistakes and thats a fact of life. But there should be some way we can appeal?

Let's assume for a minute that ye are correct and that the referee was wrong - it's an unusual mistake, but it's no different to any other mistake that is part and parcel of the game. If the ref made an incorrect decision regarding a square ball, or a forward got away with two hops on a run in to score a goal, nobody would be talking about this. That's not to take away from the bad luck element of it, but the referee is there to keep score, and mistakes can happen in any aspect of the game. What i'd be interested to know would be that when one of ye're management team went to try and reason with the ref (and note I said reason - no swearing, raised voices or accusational tone!) and talked through each of ye're scores one by one, then surely ye would have found the anomaly? If ye did keep a cool head and the referee refused to talk to ye, then that strikes me as very unreasonable, certainly.

The other team admited that a mistake had been made in relation to the scoreline but do you think they pleaded with the ref to correct the score....like hell they did.

Again, you seem to think that there should be one rule for this and another for all the more run of the mill stuff. Around 80% of keepers I've played against all shout "wide ball" every time the ball drops over the black spot (which usually means that someone other than me has kicked it!!

) and if the umpire/ref shows the slightest hesitation they are screaming like good things trying to get the score disallowed. This is trying to change the score - is that not the same? Suppose it was ye're corner forward and ran through taking two hops and never got whistled - would you honestly expect him to drop the ball and pick up his man for a free out, or would he take his lucky break and try to raise the green flag?

I'm sorry if all this sounds heartless, because that's not the intention - I just think that perhaps this talk of appeal is not really for the greater good.

Incidentally I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong, and I don't expect you to answer if you don't want, but.......Durrow?

the bare biffo · Post by **the bare biffo** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:41 pm

Hyper wrote:Not if the team were winning by the two points when the goal was scored!

Fair enough, if according to the ref the final winning margin was either 1 or 2 points, it was rough justice alright.

But I think unless the ref puts in his report that he made or may have made a mistake on the scoreline there isn't anywhere to go.

LS I wouldn't agree that an error in recording the score of a game is on a par with as you say the run of the mill stuff which can be labelled errors of judgement or interpretation. This would be a fundamental error of fact, more on a par with Jimmy Cooneys failure to play the proper time in '98.

But as I said above, unless, as Jimmy did, the ref fesses up, there is probably nowhere to go with this.

Plain of the Herbs · Post by **Plain of the Herbs** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:48 pm

This is one of those cases in which the referee’s report is sacrosanct and the score the referee records (rightly or wrongly) stands. This is the precedent, and it happens a few times each year. The only hope ye have is if the referee puts his hands up and accepts the error.

It appears to me that the referee ‘ticked’ one score beside the wrong team to give rise to the two-point differential.

From a prevention viewpoint, the referee should ideally have an umpire at either end who records the score during the match.

Bord na Mona man · Post by **Bord na Mona man** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:48 pm

It happened to us in a club game in Dublin a couple of years ago.
With a few minutes to go, the ref told us we were a point down, when we were in fact a point to the good.
Obviously he had marked one of our points in the opposition's column in his score card. Luckily we managed to still win by a point, i.e. being 3 points to the good.

Something similar happened when Offaly played Clare in Birr in 2000.
At half time, the ref checked his score and had credited Offaly with a phantom point.
Even though no one could fathom where it came from, Offaly's score then had to be upped by one point by the score board operator, who up to then had the correct score.
Luckily Offaly won by two points, so it wasn't decisive.

Square Cab · Post by **Square Cab** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:51 pm

Apologies for not being clear but the situation was as follows:

We were leading by two points when they scored their goal and these two added to the two which the ref ‘deducted’ meant we still should have won by a point. Now its easy to dismiss this episode as bitterness but there’s a wider issue at play here and it relates to a refs accountability and sportsmanship.

It was brought to the refs attention at half time that the score was incorrect. (In a calm measured way, it was a different story after the game though L Our opposition even agreed with this so it’s not a case of arguing that the score was wrong after we were beaten. Even us lowly club players deserve some justice. It takes a fair bit of dedication and effort to play any grade of football and to be beaten by a refs ‘calculating error’ is very hard to take. I come from a club with a proud tradition and I know that if we found ourselves in that position, a replay would be offered. What ever happened to some sportsmanship and fair play? Lone Shark you make some valid points but I don’t think two hops of the ball is the same thing. That’s a split second decision that the ref has to make and not everyone will notice or see that second hop. Counting how many times a ball is kicked over the bar is reasonably straight forward and is there for everyone to see. Even a ‘square ball’ doesn’t fall into the same category because there’s always an element of ‘was he’ or ‘wasn’t he’ involved in such decisions. Making an error in counting how many times the ball was kicked over the bar is a basic fundamental error that should not be made. A disputed point is also a different situation because there is a judgement call to be made. We kicked more scores than they did………no judgement needed.

DD · Post by DD » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:00 pm

Lone Shark wrote: Around 80% of keepers I've played against all shout "wide ball" every time the ball drops over the black spot (which usually means that someone other than me has kicked it!! ) and if the umpire/ref shows the slightest hesitation they are screaming like good things trying to get the score disallowed.

Going off the subject slightly..but I have to say this is one of the most irritating things that has crept into the game - IMO keepers (or anyone for that matter) should be ticked or even booked to try to cut out this ridiculous carry on. Some lads even run out towards an umpire basically obstructing him from doing his job while the ball is in flight...

Lone Shark · Post by **Lone Shark** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:29 pm

I'd be disappointed in the ref if he was presented with a list of scores at half time and he didn't realise that he had perhaps forgot to count one and at least introduced that into his report.

Again, based on the scores from the weekend, I can't imagine that any of the teams involved would have had ten or eleven scores on the board at that stage, so it should be easy enough for a ref to remember the six or seven scores that had happened if his mind is being jogged about the previous thirty minutes.

My point with the comparison was not to equate the two in the sense that obviously the scoring error really shouldn't happen while the other two are more forgiveable, but merely to point out that human error is not confined to errors of eyesight or omission is all.

There's no way to say this which doesn't sound cruel and cold, but I think it's just one of those things that happens and always will until the GAA can afford to send a full array of officials to every game, which is a long way off. I understand that doesn't make it hurt any less though.

mykneehurts · Post by **mykneehurts** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:52 pm

From what I hear the ref went to the stand to ask a (neutral) spectator the score at half time and when he said he didn't know the ref went down to one of his umpires (who is an actual neutral official umpire by the way, not affiliated to either club) and the umpire said there was a point in it. The ref still maintained it was a draw.

This is a big mistake to make alright but I wouldn't hold out any hope of an appeal being successful seeing as the referee's report will be taken as the only official record of the score. I can't see the other team offering a reply either.

Personally I would find it very interesting that he went to ask someone the score at half time at all. This means he had doubts about the score himself and I would say that if the umpire had the same score as the mentors of the team in question then he probably would have rectified his mistake and said that he simply marked the score down to the wrong team.