Offaly Senior Football Team - Championship 2022

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Post Reply
JimBwobb
County player
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by JimBwobb » Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:37 pm

Can anyone explain the Talteann Cup format?

Claffey
Junior A
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:43 pm

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by Claffey » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:44 pm

From MAster Fixtures booklet: https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-publish-mas ... -for-2022/

Tailteann Cup 2022

Preliminary Round (If required)
21-22.05.2022 (Sat/Sun)
• This Round shall be played to reduce the number of teams to 15 (including New York who will enter at the quarter final stage).
• The draw will be restricted to those Division 3 and 4 teams who did not reach their Provincial Semi Final.
• The first team drawn will have home venue.

Round 1
28-29.05.2022 (Sat/Sun)
• This Round shall be played to reduce the overall number of teams to eight (including New York who will enter at the Quarter Final stage) and be organised on a geographical basis with Northern and Southern Sections.
• Where less than fourteen teams are involved in this Round, Bye(s) may apply.
• There will be an open draw for each section, with the first team drawn having home venue.

Quarter-Finals
04-05.06.2022 (Sat/Sun)
• This stage shall be comprised of the Winners and any Bye Team(s) of Round 1, along with New York.
• The round will be organised on a geographical basis with a Northern and Southern Sections.
• There will be an open draw for each section, with the first team drawn having home venue.
o Exception: New York will play their game in Ireland, and their opposition will have Home Advantage.
• The Winners of the four pairings shall qualify for the Semi-Finals.

Semi-Finals
19.06.2022 (Sun)
• An Open Draw shall determine the two pairings.
• Venues shall be determined by the Central Competitions Control Committee.
Final
09.07.2022 (Sat)
Semi-Final Winner v Semi-Final Winner

User avatar
bracknaghboy
All Star
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by bracknaghboy » Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:40 pm

JimBwobb wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:37 pm
Can anyone explain the Talteann Cup format?
I can.

2022 Decent media coverage. 1 x first round and quarter final game on TV. 2 x semi on TV. Final on TV. Semi's and final played before major games in Croke Park. GAA hail it a massive success.
2023 Less media coverage. Just 1 x semi and final now on TV.
2024 Very little media coverage. Games fixed for 1pm on Saturday afternoons. Semi's streamed on TG4 app. Final still on TV (TG4).
2025 Almost no media attention. Only the final streamed on TG4 app.
2026 A completely irrelevant new tier below Tailteann Cup gets created for D4 teams only. Lets call it the Ciaran Kilkenny Cup.
2027 Provincial Championships scrapped. The 16 team "All Ireland" gets split into 2 x 'Super 8' groups at the behest of Sky Sports which brings in the cash and the GAA are now done with the bottom 16.......they can play for their Tailteann and Kilkenny Cups and stay quiet in the corner.

We've been here before with the hurling.
If anyone thinks that what I've outlined above is not ultimately the plan for football then they are a fucking imbecile and likely a danger to themselves and others.
This has nothing to do with giving teams meaningful games, it's a plan to create a product for TV that allows the 'top' teams play each other over and over with all games live on TV. Ultimately it's about the moolah.
"Oh, Maggie, I wished I'd never seen your face, I'll get on back home one of these days"

jimbob17
All Star
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by jimbob17 » Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:33 am

bracknaghboy wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:40 pm
JimBwobb wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:37 pm
Can anyone explain the Talteann Cup format?
I can.

2022 Decent media coverage. 1 x first round and quarter final game on TV. 2 x semi on TV. Final on TV. Semi's and final played before major games in Croke Park. GAA hail it a massive success.
2023 Less media coverage. Just 1 x semi and final now on TV.
2024 Very little media coverage. Games fixed for 1pm on Saturday afternoons. Semi's streamed on TG4 app. Final still on TV (TG4).
2025 Almost no media attention. Only the final streamed on TG4 app.
2026 A completely irrelevant new tier below Tailteann Cup gets created for D4 teams only. Lets call it the Ciaran Kilkenny Cup.
2027 Provincial Championships scrapped. The 16 team "All Ireland" gets split into 2 x 'Super 8' groups at the behest of Sky Sports which brings in the cash and the GAA are now done with the bottom 16.......they can play for their Tailteann and Kilkenny Cups and stay quiet in the corner.

We've been here before with the hurling.
If anyone thinks that what I've outlined above is not ultimately the plan for football then they are a fucking imbecile and likely a danger to themselves and others.
This has nothing to do with giving teams meaningful games, it's a plan to create a product for TV that allows the 'top' teams play each other over and over with all games live on TV. Ultimately it's about the moolah.
Not sure I'd fully agree or that the players in weaker counties would agree with this sentiment. As much as you may not agree, players in the weaker counties as it stands, have absolutely nothing to gain with status quo being maintained and that is why so many counties so often have lots of difficulty keeping their players - there is nothing in it for them.

Firstly on the hurling front. Hurling is getting more of a chance in weaker counties than it ever did before. Before the tiers, there was your leagues and after that it was a McCarthy Cup and maybe All Ireland B for likes of Westmeath Kildare and Derrys etc. There was nothing for the Cavan's Leitrims and Fermanaghs of the hurling world. Their season now is miles better than it once was. Then, a Laois or Carlow or Kerry had nothing to aim for. Now they have Joe McDonagh/ Christy Ring / Nicky Rackard / Lory Meagher - a tangible competition they can enter, compete in and win. Yes the coverage and numbers there are low, but it is better than no games and no competition. I know plenty of lads who have got their days out in Croker through these competitions and they would tell you it was one of the highlights of their playing careers. That is a fact.

On football side, what have likes of Waterford footballers had to incentivise them for last 100 years? You can throw in the Tipperarys, Limericks and Clares and Wicklows Leitrims and any amount of others too. Hammering after hammering by a Kerry or Cork or Mayo or Dublin etc. Every now and again they pulled a shock and won a championship game in their own province and that was that for another year. One day out and they were gone!

Now, they still have that chance. They can still compete in own province and win and then go on to Sam Maguire. But if they dont get to a provincial final, they now have a tangible competition to aim for. Previously knocked out of province and sure qualifiers were a waste of time. There was no point as they were never going to win or get near an All Ireland semi let alone a final. Now the Tailteann Cup fills that void - a real tangible chance to compete and win a national competition.

I agree that media coverage and promotion will be hugely important- couldnt emphasise it enough and it will be an issue as there are only so may journalists to go around - but for the players, they now have something really to aim for through league, through province and through All Ireland competition. That can only be good for the game. There will be loss of media interest to certain degree but there is wider context. There will be smaller portions allocated to media in earlier Sam Maguire competition rounds and Liam McCarthy too as there are just so many rounds and games squashed in. That is a broader issue but a good one - less training, more matches to attend and more time for clubs on far end of Summer. Every odd Summer you will have Olympics and Euro soccer and world cups that will also dilute coverage too but there will still be more meaningful competition. On the media part, this is where maybe more localised media comes in - and i'd be confident they will fill the void - but lets wait and see on that.

I have not been as enthused for Summer of GAA in a long time. And trust me, many county players feel the same and are really looking forward to Tailteann Cup. The ones that once knew they had little chance beyond the league, now have something really tangible to aim for - either making a provincial final to play Sam Maguire - or safety net of meaningful competition against sides at their own level with an All Ireland in Croke Park and All Stars etc at stake, where the winner is guaranteed Sam Maguire status in following year.

Just in Offaly alone now, look at what a player has to look forward to compared with a few years ago. Through their competitions (Provincial and Joe Mc), they can qualify for Sam Maguire and Liam McCarthy finals if good enough) If not good enough they compete at own level in All Ireland series. If Offaly win Joe Mac, it is a really good year for us in hurling and move into preliminary q-final and Liam McCarthy next year versus getting hammered in Leinster Round Robin and everyone is laughing at us for being so low. In football, we might get craic at Dublin. If we did win we push on as any other team does towards prov final and Sam Maguire. But if we don't, we are up against 14 or 15 teams to win a Tailteann cup. With a lot of decent teams in Div 3 and 4, that is certainly worth going for and if we were to win that (or even make a final), it would be huge for us - or any team and build great momentum for following year - versus the alternative of the year petering out with a tame qualifier defeat to a top 8 team as we have seen for years for all these teams - they were just cannon fodder in a system that knew they had no chance of competing for Sam Maguire.

For what it is worth, the one change I think will happen over time is that the All Ireland Competitions will take a Champions league format with groups of 4 in both Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup with a game played at home, away and neutral venue with top 2 teams getting out for All Ireland quarter finals in both tiers..... That would offer even more games and more excitement I think - and money for the GAA too, but that is a whole other issue.
jimbob

User avatar
bracknaghboy
All Star
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by bracknaghboy » Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:34 pm

Jimbob you make some valid points in fairness.
My problem is not exactly with the Tailteann right now, it's more with what this will eventually lead to.
Most intercounty players still look to the championship with excitement. That trip to Portlaoise or Navan on a fine Sunday afternoon in front of 5 or 6,000 supporters. Camera's there and the 3 or 4 minutes on the Sunday game that night. If it doesn't work out then there's a shot at the qualifiers.
Take this year, Offaly have their day out down in Wexford which if they win gives a big evening in OCP the following Saturday night in front of what you'd hope will be maybe 15,000 against Dublin, a game which is live on TV as well (Lads care about this stuff by the way as it all adds to the sense of occasion).

My fear is that eventually there will no Leinster championship and no big occasions for these players to focus on. Instead it'll just be the Tailteann Cup away from any limelight. There simply won't be 6,000 at these games as they'll also be clashing with 'big' games on TV. We have proof of this.
Look at Offaly v Laois in the hurling for example:

LSHC 1/4 Final in 2015
6534 attended in Portlaoise.

LSHC 1/4 Final in 2016
5128 attended in Tullamore

Joey Mc Cup Round 1
3163 attended in Tullamore

That Joey Mc attendance was the lowest in at least 17 games between the 2 teams in the championship. In fact according to the excellent records on this website you have to go back to 1970 for a lower one.

Offaly/Westmeath football games in Leinster in in 2016 & 2017 attracted over 8,000.
I can assure you that if they met in Round 1 one of the Tailteann Cup on a Saturday afternoon there wouldn't be 3,000 at it.
Players will drift away. Again we have proof of this. Look at the Offaly hurling panel this year and what it was 3.5 years earlier in the Leinster championship. There are 2 maybe 3 lads left from it. Fennelly has spoken about the massive turnover of players being nothing like he has ever seen or heard of before. It's a vicious cycle, lads can't be bothered playing at the lower levels but of course if they don't play and stay together then the prospect of returning to Leinster becomes more remote.

Finally, as with all these things the GAA have issued no metrics so that success or failure can be measured against.
I suspect that regardless of how it goes they'll very quickly be saying it was a great success and then the conversation will move to dismantling the provincial competitions and setting up a 'Super' competition for the elite teams.
Only a very naive individual would think that this is not the road all this is heading down.
"Oh, Maggie, I wished I'd never seen your face, I'll get on back home one of these days"

frankthetank
All Star
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:22 am

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by frankthetank » Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:59 pm

I think it’s a bit of a misconception that Offaly will definitely play Dublin in O’Connor Park if we beat Wexford.

Only once since Dublin went on the road for their opening game have they actually travelled to the home venue of the opposing team.

2016 Dublin 2-21 Laois 2-10. Nowlan Park. 17,000
2017 Dublin 0-19 Carlow 0-07. Portlaoise. 13,000
2018 Dublin. 4-25 Wicklow 1-11. Portlaoise 12,000
2019 Dublin 5-21 Louth 0-10. Portlaoise. 14,000
2020 Dublin 0-22 Westmeath 0-11. Portlaoise. Zero
2021 Dublin 0-15 Wexford 0-07. Wexford Park. 500

Not saying it wont happen, in fact there’s more chance it actually will. But it’s not a certainty.

User avatar
bracknaghboy
All Star
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by bracknaghboy » Sat Apr 02, 2022 5:32 pm

frankthetank wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:59 pm
I think it’s a bit of a misconception that Offaly will definitely play Dublin in O’Connor Park if we beat Wexford.

Only once since Dublin went on the road for their opening game have they actually travelled to the home venue of the opposing team.

2016 Dublin 2-21 Laois 2-10. Nowlan Park. 17,000
2017 Dublin 0-19 Carlow 0-07. Portlaoise. 13,000
2018 Dublin. 4-25 Wicklow 1-11. Portlaoise 12,000
2019 Dublin 5-21 Louth 0-10. Portlaoise. 14,000
2020 Dublin 0-22 Westmeath 0-11. Portlaoise. Zero
2021 Dublin 0-15 Wexford 0-07. Wexford Park. 500

Not saying it wont happen, in fact there’s more chance it actually will. But it’s not a certainty.
It's a certainty for sure Frank, winner of Offaly/Wex have home advantage against them noisy Dubs :D

Straight from the Leinster GAA website:
QUARTER FINALS:
4. Dublin v Offaly/Wexford 30.4.2021 6.30pm Tullamore/Wexford

Beating Wexford not a certainty but their league results would strongly suggest the Dubs in OCP this night 4 weeks.
"Oh, Maggie, I wished I'd never seen your face, I'll get on back home one of these days"

jimbob17
All Star
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by jimbob17 » Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:35 pm

bracknaghboy wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:34 pm
Jimbob you make some valid points in fairness.
My problem is not exactly with the Tailteann right now, it's more with what this will eventually lead to.
Most intercounty players still look to the championship with excitement. That trip to Portlaoise or Navan on a fine Sunday afternoon in front of 5 or 6,000 supporters. Camera's there and the 3 or 4 minutes on the Sunday game that night. If it doesn't work out then there's a shot at the qualifiers.
Take this year, Offaly have their day out down in Wexford which if they win gives a big evening in OCP the following Saturday night in front of what you'd hope will be maybe 15,000 against Dublin, a game which is live on TV as well (Lads care about this stuff by the way as it all adds to the sense of occasion).

My fear is that eventually there will no Leinster championship and no big occasions for these players to focus on. Instead it'll just be the Tailteann Cup away from any limelight. There simply won't be 6,000 at these games as they'll also be clashing with 'big' games on TV. We have proof of this.
Look at Offaly v Laois in the hurling for example:

LSHC 1/4 Final in 2015
6534 attended in Portlaoise.

LSHC 1/4 Final in 2016
5128 attended in Tullamore

Joey Mc Cup Round 1
3163 attended in Tullamore

That Joey Mc attendance was the lowest in at least 17 games between the 2 teams in the championship. In fact according to the excellent records on this website you have to go back to 1970 for a lower one.

Offaly/Westmeath football games in Leinster in in 2016 & 2017 attracted over 8,000.
I can assure you that if they met in Round 1 one of the Tailteann Cup on a Saturday afternoon there wouldn't be 3,000 at it.
Players will drift away. Again we have proof of this. Look at the Offaly hurling panel this year and what it was 3.5 years earlier in the Leinster championship. There are 2 maybe 3 lads left from it. Fennelly has spoken about the massive turnover of players being nothing like he has ever seen or heard of before. It's a vicious cycle, lads can't be bothered playing at the lower levels but of course if they don't play and stay together then the prospect of returning to Leinster becomes more remote.

Finally, as with all these things the GAA have issued no metrics so that success or failure can be measured against.
I suspect that regardless of how it goes they'll very quickly be saying it was a great success and then the conversation will move to dismantling the provincial competitions and setting up a 'Super' competition for the elite teams.
Only a very naive individual would think that this is not the road all this is heading down.

Take your point that your comments are based on what it may become. I suppose mine are based on what we now have, which is way better than what we did have.

I think that the provincial councils have tried to maintain their provincial competitions as sacrosanct in facilitating the change to facilitate new proposals. They managed to get that over the line and I'd hope that they have got the balance right in the sense that everyone still has chance to win province and All Ireland. Keeping that dream alive for all I think needs to be maintained and unlike you, I'd sense that 75% of counties will always vote for this being maintained, given that your hypothesized inevitable change means that Tailteann Cup / Div 3/4 teams will be locked out in future. I just don't see this ever getting through given that there is not a huge pile of difference generally between teams at top of Div 4 to those at bottom of Div 1. There are probably 6 elite teams above everyone and 3 or 4 very weak teams at bottom of Div 4. Id feel if there was a break away elite tier, it most certainly will not be an elite 16. Maybe an elite 8 if it came to pass but never an elite 16 for reason just outlined.

What I would like to see would be an evening out of 'provinces' into 4 regions of 8/9 (factoring London / New York) - a North, South, East and West, based across maybe 2 tiers where each would have similar prospective route as current new competition where the 4/5 lower tiered teams access Sam Maguire by making a 'Regional Final' as opposed to provincial final. That way every team would have same chance. I think that the current provincial system is fundamentally flawed in favour of Connaught and Munster counties with lesser teams and against Leinster and Ulster counties - and particularly Ulster currently given that a very high proportion (half exactly) of the top 10 teams in the country are based in Ulster. ie Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Armagh and Derry. In fact it could take Kerry almost the same amount of games to win an All Ireland as it would some counties to win a Leinster.

Levelling the playing field regarding this is such an easy fix logistically, if not politically, with 32/33 ish teams accounting for the lot (minus Kilkenny and adding London New York). 32 is easily divisible into 8x4 and 2 tiers of 16. If we were starting now from scratch to divide country up with a view to inventing such a representative sports competition, 32 would be the magic number. But I hasten to add, getting any of that done or any close to over a line may be a politically impossible task.
jimbob

User avatar
bracknaghboy
All Star
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by bracknaghboy » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:53 pm

bracknaghboy wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:40 pm
JimBwobb wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:37 pm
Can anyone explain the Talteann Cup format?
I can.

2022 Decent media coverage. 1 x first round and quarter final game on TV. 2 x semi on TV. Final on TV. Semi's and final played before major games in Croke Park. GAA hail it a massive success.
2023 Less media coverage. Just 1 x semi and final now on TV.
2024 Very little media coverage. Games fixed for 1pm on Saturday afternoons. Semi's streamed on TG4 app. Final still on TV (TG4).
2025 Almost no media attention. Only the final streamed on TG4 app.
2026 A completely irrelevant new tier below Tailteann Cup gets created for D4 teams only. Lets call it the Ciaran Kilkenny Cup.
2027 Provincial Championships scrapped. The 16 team "All Ireland" gets split into 2 x 'Super 8' groups at the behest of Sky Sports which brings in the cash and the GAA are now done with the bottom 16.......they can play for their Tailteann and Kilkenny Cups and stay quiet in the corner.
My first year TV coverage predictions for the Tailteann Cup were too optimistic!!
RTE have released their live schedule. 3 Tailteann Cup games this year. The 2 semi's and the final.
The 2 semi's will probably be dropped after 2023 and it'll be just the final by 2024. Out of sight, out of mind as they say.
"Oh, Maggie, I wished I'd never seen your face, I'll get on back home one of these days"

greenairfield
All Star
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:20 pm
Club: birr

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by greenairfield » Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:05 pm

The offaly team for tomorrow seems to be missing quite a few...how many injuries have we or who?

JimBwobb
County player
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by JimBwobb » Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:47 pm

Niall and Ruairi Mc out with hamstrings. Cathal Donoghue out with a knee injury, and Jack Bryant injured also.

Cathal Mangan and Cilly Donnelly left the panel as both going travelling.

I'm not as confident about tomorrow as I previously would of been.

pigeon house biffo
County player
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:49 am
Club: Rynagh

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by pigeon house biffo » Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:27 pm

Disappointing about donnelly and mangan, donnelly in particular looked very handy for UL this year, mangan one of the more physical specimens we have

Very low key build up, not much in any local media about the game

Feel we don’t do much to promote our games in local media as other counties, see the likes of leitrim sligo etc all have dedicated gaa podcasts, for a self professed gaa mad county we don’t seem to be able muster much debate around our games

User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am
Club: Clara

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by Bord na Mona man » Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:25 pm

We already had key players out on long term absences, so any new unavailabilities and injuries are unwelcome.

Wexford's poor league this year had given me some comfort but I don't believe there is much of a gap between the sides ability wise.
Offaly will need to perform at the level they did in the Down and Cork games to win this.
The risk is that Wexford stay in this game, get a rally at some stage and start to believe in themselves.

I hope it's not an omen but 2007 was the last time Offaly won a Leinster fixture where Dublin awaited the winners. Since then there have been 5 straight losses, most recently against Wicklow in 2018.

User avatar
Bord na Mona man
All Star
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:34 am
Club: Clara

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by Bord na Mona man » Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:26 pm

Image

pigeon house biffo
County player
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:49 am
Club: Rynagh

Re: National Foothall league Div 2 predictions

Post by pigeon house biffo » Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:44 pm

Anyone know what this is about?
Attachments
2AE97A34-6EF0-499C-9C47-32B0D6A0CCB6.png
2AE97A34-6EF0-499C-9C47-32B0D6A0CCB6.png (645.95 KiB) Viewed 11320 times

Post Reply