Offaly Hurlers 2022

[bracknaghboy]

Offaly should have given Wexford a walkover in 2018 and prepared for the Dublin game instead. Or better still we should have sent out the Brosna Gaels junior B team to take them on that Saturday evening. I'm serious by the way. The Leinster council were taking the piss so we should have met them head on. I proposed that to a county board member during the week before that match and he laughed. A year later he said to me "you were right".

The Leinster council should have been challenged on their rationale for barring teams from entering their own provincial competition. What would success look like?
Was their plan that the relegated team would drop down a tier and come back way stronger the following year?
Had a plan been put in place to review the structure after say 3 years and assess by how much the teams that yo-yo'd up and down had improved or dis-improved?
What today is their assessment of the structure? Has it served Offaly well?
Has it served Carlow well? I don't think so, in fact they have fallen off since their relegation in 2019.
So what the purpose of this relegation?
I can tell you with certainty that Wexford would have kicked up an almighty stink had they finished bottom in 2018.

Who remembers 2009?
Antrim and Wexford were fixed to play a relegation match with the loser going down to the Christy Ring Cup.
Wexford informed Croke Park that they wouldn't be fulfilling the match and that nobody would be stopping them from taking part in the Leinster or All Ireland championships. End of story. And of course Croke Park announced both teams could stay up.
Thats how you do it, the yella bellies took no shit.
I remember a Wexford county board official saying to the media that Croke Park needed to "cop themselves on about this auld relegation"......and they did for a few years at least until they found a more gullible bunch to drop through the door without a whimper.

[Dodge83]

It’s not the Leinster council or Croke Park’s fault Offaly got relegated and are in this position now. That’s a load of bollix!! It’s our own fault for doing fuck all at underage level for years. The neglect to try properly develop our young players came back to bite us in the hole. So give it a rest. We are where we belong ….for now. But we are showing signs of slowly getting it right. Long road ahead

[Fairplayalways]

I remember that 2009 issue now that you mention it, as the poster said "wexford took no sh*t"....I can see our higher archy in suits looking out over their glasses backing up the head office and keeping the thumb on management and players etc..we have made progress in standing up for ourselves but we could be a bit more dogged too..we see at county board level when something is muted there is always someone at top table able to quote rule X article 123 etc. and that cannot be contravened etc...we are a very biddable lot..

[private joker]

Offaly were getting well bet at that stage and little or no proper work was been done, the golden generation were doing county squads as coaches and were shown up for what they are.

[bracknaghboy]

Offaly were getting well bet at that stage

So were Waterford in Munster in 2018 and 2019, presumably you would you have relegated them as well? It would have done them the world of good I'd say!
In 2019 for example they lost 3 of their matches by 13, 18 and 20 points.
Lads are missing my point a bit on this topic. I'm fully aware the state Offaly hurling was in when the relegation happened. I'd like to know on the whole has the relegation been good or bad overall? I'm not convinced games against Sligo, Wicklow, Derry etc. are good preparation, others may disagree.

What I'm asking is why hasn't anyone asked the powers that be what metrics were used to decide that limiting participation in the Leinster championship would be good for the overall health of hurling in the impacted counties. What measurements were applied here? Has it been a success or failure?
If it was such a good idea isn't it a shame the Munster teams haven't availed of it? They may be missing out on something good by not introducing relegation into their provincial championship? The fools.

Or could it be that Leinster made the decision with no regard as to what impact it may or may not have on the impacted counties?
Whilst a lot of people around the country supported Offaly as the plucky underdog who beat the big names in hurling there were an equal amount that hated us and were delighted we were dumped out of the championship proper.
Even today you can see the absolute contempt that Donal Og Cusack and Ger Loughnane have when they speak of Offaly hurling, you know they are enjoying having a dig.

[Bord na Mona man]

The conditions were created when Galway and Antrim were allowed into Leinster towards the end of the 00s.

Imagine in the 90s if you suggested Galway could play in Leinster but Offaly would be excluded?
I remember in that era when any Leinster county could participate if they felt up to it.
Carlow opted out in 1997, Westmeath opted out in 1998 and Meath opted out in 1999 when they felt they weren't competitive enough, but the door was never closed in their face.

If you look at the 1996 Leinster championship where the weaker counties played preliminary rounds before someone came through to play the stronger team:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_All- ... ampionship

Any competition structure should allow the weaker teams a route where eventually the best of them will win through to play against a stronger team.
Anyway, what's done is done. The hurling committees that create these structures have their own individual points of views, agendas and blind spots.

[biffinbanner]

i often despair when i hear offaly people supporting kilkenny. as for donal og and loughnanne being as they are ,the kilkenny crowd were a lot worse after 98 etc..time to send them back where they came from talk. we were there too long having the cheek to regularly beat them. they were royalty after all. i think we were better off dropping a grade .we were on life support at the time. signs on we dropped again. no point staying at the top table when we wernt fit to be there.. and i dont like the idea of critising a number of "golden generation" legends to my thinking. they were trying to do their best . no one could have stopped the inevitable.. lets hope we win joe mcdonagh and let the slow road to recovery continue....

[bracknaghboy]

Anyway, what's done is done.

It is. But we need to have one eye on the future too.
Say Offaly win the Joe McDonagh this year or next and go up into the 6 team Leinster group.
They could in theory be really competitive but still lose all 5 games and be relegated again.
In fact they could win 1 game and lose the other 4 by one point and still go down. Would relegation in that case but good for them? Hardly.

Take Antrim. Right now they are proving reasonably competitive against top teams but find themselves in the Joe McDonagh. They are at a stage of their development whereby they need to be challenged at a higher level in my opinion. Yes there would be some bad beatings but I don't think Wexford would enjoy a trip with to Corrigan Park in the championship, who knows what would happen.
Like BNM says in the 90s teams entered and pulled out as they saw fit.
Nobody honestly thinks that Wickow or Longford would be seeking inclusion in a Leinster championship if the door was option.
In fact Wicklow pulled out in the early 00's after trying for a few seasons. We should be trusting the counties themselves to know what their level is at.

Offaly, Antrim, Laois, Westmeath going up and down between competitions over the next 10 years will likely at best have all counties at the same standard as they currently are. Meanwhile the big boys will have pulled another few light years ahead of them.
We are in danger of seeing the gap becoming completely insurmountable and it needs discussion and ideas thrown out there as to what gives the best opportunity for that gap to be closed or at least get no bigger.

[Plain of the Herbs]

What measurements were applied? The measurements of Joe Armchair, that’s what.

Firstly, I don’t recall when the decision was made to go with two groups of five, but in all likelihood that was made at Central level, whether at Central Council or Convention, and not a decision that was made at Leinster Council level.

Joe Armchair thinks the round robin in the hurling has been a great success. He can watch two Munster hurling championship games on television on a Sunday or a Saturday evening or whenever they’re on. Loves the cut and thrust of the Munster championship, does Joe. He dislikes the thrown passes and the disregard for the ‘steps’ rule, but thinks referees should let the game flow. He thinks Limerick are too physical but doesn’t like to see players sent of because it ‘ruins the game’. Loves the high scoring but thinks the ball needs to be made heavier.

A typical weekend for Joe is soccer, rugby, hurling, football, golf on TV. (I’m bullshitin’ here, I don’t watch much TV sport myself!). Loves the soccer too, though he has no idea where I England Watford, Southampton, Norwich and Burnley actually are. He’d be horrified if the European soccer cup final clashed with a Munster hurling match on TV. Still, Munster hurling is the highlight. Tipperary, Cork, Waterford, Limerick, Clare, whatever. He’d love to see a champions league format in football. And thinks the GAA should play Senior intercounty matches on Friday and Monday nights. And he hasn’t been to a match in about 15 years.

He’ll watch Kilkenny v Galway in Leinster on TV when it comes up but wouldn’t be bothered with the rest of Leinster. But loves an underdog. Thinks Offaly, Laois Antrim and the rest should be left to play at their own level before they can compete with the top dogs again. Doesn’t know they play hurling in Westmeath, Carlow and Kerry. And he doesn't know there's such a thing as club hurling or football.

So that’s the metric by which the round robin craic is measured. This isn’t about Offaly, Laois or any of the rest of them, they’re just collateral damage. They hold no appeal for Joe Armchair, so why bother? This is about market share, about TV advertising. By those measurements it's been a great success, it was interrupted by Covid for two years, but it's back on Joe Armchair's screen in April. He's bought the mini fridge online and he's ready to go.

What I'm asking is why hasn't anyone asked the powers that be what metrics were used to decide that limiting participation in the Leinster championship would be good for the overall health of hurling in the impacted counties. What measurements were applied here? Has it been a success or failure?
If it was such a good idea isn't it a shame the Munster teams haven't availed of it? They may be missing out on something good by not introducing relegation into their provincial championship? The fools.

Or could it be that Leinster made the decision with no regard as to what impact it may or may not have on the impacted counties?

[Fairplayalways]

I suppose a certain degree of "nimbyism" is in our (Offaly) mindset now..we all enjoyed the prelimary rounds when it was just that back in the day, A plays B and the winner moves on to play in quarter or semi final in Leinster etc....now these prelimary rounds are "round robin" involving multiple teams (and we are not even one of them)...I dont know the answer, personally, I dont like the idea of Galway and Antrim in Leinster, nothing at all personal against either county. If the GAA are going down that road (which they have) the whole system needs to be looked at properly, leaving Munster alone, while I know is competitive, is not on and loading Leinster with counties from outside their province on a full time basis is not right. Galway and Antrim wont complain I know, but something doesnt sit right if we ever did win a Leinster again and beat Antrim or Galway in the Leinster final..as for Joe Armchair or whatever he is called, i hear the debate, going to matches now is a very costly racket, especially if you have family involved and the rest of the family want to go, so there is that side of it too as many will concur. Giving their opinions here is just that their opinion so I would live with that, we all make good and bad points in the eyes of others...no doubt the the GAA is a financial animal, as Michael Duignan said when the deal with Sky was signed, "how much money is enough (for the GAA)?..I think anyone signed up with those packages wont be going to every match, why would ya (we know its better being there live) but each to their own as they say...Offaly while making progress hurling wise are still way off the top, but all we can do is stay going..

[jimbob17]

Disappointing result given the performance and effort of the lads today. Matched Clare for 55 or 60 mins. Huge effort all over the field and these games will stand to us. Clare were able to bring on physically strong experienced players in middle third and we couldn't match them physically in last 15 mins when Clare shot 3-7.

For Offaly, Full back line really good for most of first hour. Shanagher caused problems for Burke when he came on, but caused even greater problems after Burke went off. Shanagher is huge big physical ball winner and will do that to best full backs in country. Burke should have been left on him.

Clancy made some very good saves but can't ignore the gifts of points handed to Clare as result of poor puckouts. Without counting, I'd say maybe at least 3 came directly off that so bit of work needed on that. That is a decision making issue and he will be first to know that.

After an excellent start, Ben Conneely went on Tony Kelly after 15 mins and did reasonably OK on him. Kelly gets his share of scores no matter who is on him and got 3 outstanding scores from touchline under stand, particularly the last one. A joy to watch and one of the best of this generation, you could only applaud the scores. King was solid enough at times, Sampson less influential than normal. We really struggled here with ball winning ability of a young Patrick Crotty from Clare. He appears to be really an old style hurler, wears the socks pulled up and will be one we will hear about again, a sort of Bonner Maher type figure.

Eimhin Kelly would have been a 3rd choice midfielder last year but with Fox and Ravenhill out today, Kelly really put down a marker, one of Offaly's best today and chipped in with at least one score. Beyond that, Clare edged the midfield and over ran us in last 15 mins.

Our half forward line worked hard but probably ran out of steam. We needed to add depth here as game went on and unfortunately the intensity of the depth we did add, did not compare with what we had in earlier stages. Langton showed nice touches at times but is physically light, duignan worked hard but grew tired as game went on.

On inside line, John Murphy was our most potent forward, showed very well and must have picked off 4 or 5 points and won frees. He really troubled the Clare full back who was lucky to stay on the field. Eoghan Cahill is a master stick man and is outstanding on the ball and from frees. Sampson was in and out of it but showed well at times.

Overall, our fitness and conditioning has improved a lot in last couple of years and we are way ahead of where we were a few years ago when Ger Loughnane made his comments. That said, we still have a good bit to go to compete at Mccarthy Cup level. Clare were able to bring in likes of Shanagher and Peter Duggan, while we just don't have that type of physicality in terms of depth just yet. That said, we are on right track and I'd be happy that we should be in good place to give the Joe McDonagh a very good rattle.

There may be pain in next few games, but improvement is happening and perspective is needed.

[allstar2010]

Score definitely doesn’t reflect how this game went. We were well in it and you’d have to be happy with the effort shown by this group of players. Improvements are being made. Long may it continue. I’m not going to go in to our failings.

But, as a supporter I was embarrassed with our support. I reckon more Clare supporters in the stand than for us. Biggest cheer of the day seemed to be when Peter Duggan came on

[JimBwobb]

But, as a supporter I was embarrassed with our support. I reckon more Clare supporters in the stand than for us. Biggest cheer of the day seemed to be when Peter Duggan came on

Same with the footballers yesterday

[bracknaghboy]

But, as a supporter I was embarrassed with our support. I reckon more Clare supporters in the stand than for us. Biggest cheer of the day seemed to be when Peter Duggan came on

Same with the footballers yesterday

Ah I wouldn't mind that lads.
Don't worry, if we get to oh I don't know say maybe an All Ireland under 20 Football final every yahoo in the county will be out of the woodwork demanding tickets

[Fairplayalways]

it was a great performance for 55 minutes until Clare brought on their experienced players..bare in mind Eoghan Cahill yet again scored the bulk of our scores (from frees) we scored 0-16 and going by commentary and spectators we are "scoring well"..the top teams main marks men would border the 0-15-16 on most days, 10 or 12 from frees and rest from play..we dont come near anything like that...we dont have scoring forwards outside Cahill, Duignan promises so much and on a good day does score but if its a battle is often just not in the game...yes, we were in the game for 55 minutes but the full time score is a 16 point defeat...yes, we are competitive for most games, unfortunately results are all that matter and will be remembered..