Offaly Hurlers 2022

[private joker]

Think there is a statistical analysis done where the nearer to your own goal you are when you hit the ball into your forwards, the higher the % that your team will lose the ball. Paul kinnerick gave a talk where this was pointed out. All well and good hitting ball early to forwards but the turnovers are massive and you won't get ball back.

[Bord na Mona man]

There was some good analysis done here on the 2019 championship:
http://sixtwofourtwo.com/2019shcstats/

2019 might even be an outlier when Kilkenny recorded a shock win over Limerick. This was probably the last kick for the 'let it long' approach.

[bracknaghboy]

The players need to shut out the moans and groans from the traditionalists. Sunday in Birr may test this.

And also the moans and groans of the modernists when a chap hits it long when no other option is on.
There are likely to be lots of traditionalists here Sunday with so many having stayed away from games for the last 15 years.
There could be fella's in the crowd expecting the ball to be struck with the hurl.
It could be deafening for some of the younger lads and is something Fennelly will need to be mindful of.
We are late to the table, so hopefully by the time our lads master these latest hurling methods there aren't some other new fads being utilised by our opponents!

[Plain of the Herbs]

You did. It struck a cord with me and I wanted to credit the contributor that wrote it. It was written in the aftermath of the Antrim match, I thought it was after the Dublin match so I was looking in the wrong place. It's reproduced below.

Think I posted about the offaly ignoring the pleas from the crowd to "go long". I've stated this before, offaly are playing a good style of hurling that will be needed to compete. They are training very well and definitely training the way they want to play. It is of up most importance that fennelly and Kelly stay for at least 2 more years. This cannot be over stated. They need to be kept on. Winning or going close in the joe mcdonagh would help with this.

Was at the game. Offaly started off very well. Played nice style of hurling and ignored the crowds pleas to " just drive it". Antrim man sent off seemed to spur on Antrim and offaly slacked off a bit. Could easily have lost as Antrim had penalty saved and had number of shots on goal thst needed to be cleared/ saved. Dublin will be a different kettle of fish.
Game is in birr?

[Plain of the Herbs]

Link to the Paul Kinnerk talk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQgl7qyrSAw

Think there is a statistical analysis done where the nearer to your own goal you are when you hit the ball into your forwards, the higher the % that your team will lose the ball. Paul kinnerick gave a talk where this was pointed out. All well and good hitting ball early to forwards but the turnovers are massive and you won't get ball back.

[Fairplayalways]

all excellent points above, I was watching Limerick V Wexford on TV (couldnt make Galway game due to family stuff here) and I note on many blogs people say "watch the way Limerick work the ball up the field" and the do on occasions, but I deliberately watched Limerick more closely all last year and again on Sunday (I know they lost before I go on to say what I am going to say
but they are also a team that have no problem letting in long balls into the channels either side of the 21 yard line, and even short of those channels (say between the 65 and 25 but out to wings) and they have Gillane, Flannagan, Hegarty and a host of on the starting 15 and subs comming in, who are first our 99% of the time (you wont be first out every single time over 70 minutes) and win their own ball, and not only have the speed to get out but also the guile to make space and score, or set up another player running on to score. I think people are very quick to write off the long (or even cross field long) ball...if you have the players it is so so effective and better hurling to look at (just my oppinion) Now do Offaly have the players to play this game, I would think we possibly have, obviously not as many as Limerick at the moment, but if one examines the Limerick squad over the last few years, there havent been wholesale changes to the panel year/in or out, new players coming on are generally players who were part of the sucessful underage structure which finally went onto make Senior sucess, unlike the similar U21 teams of the early 2000's which really had it all, but as happens never transpired to senior sucess despite having big names like Mark Keane, Andrew O'Shaughnessy(retired early due to ill health I know but what a player) and Begley and Geary to mention just a few of that team that went on to hurl senior etc..The conditions on Sunday were woeful all over the country, and the wide count in the Limerick/Wexford game was ferocious, but while one might argue they should have changed tack taking in the conditions, they still shot from all angles and on a normal weather wise day, a score of possibly 1-22 to 0-22 may have been the score (that said the Wexford goal came from a mishit long range free, again weather a factor, so its as broad as its long as they say..getting back to topic, I just think people are dismissing the long ball game too much, if you have the coaching and of course the players its as good as system as their is and contributes to great games...again just my oppinion..Offaly have a few big game ahead of them in the coming weeks, i wish them well...

[private joker]

Go long if you have the men to do it. Go short if you have the men to do it. Run with it , if you have the men to do it.

[Fairplayalways]

but many in most hurling counties are maintaining "going long is gone"...as I say not necesssarily the case...what is Offalys best plan would you think..we have some good ball winners..but moving it through the lines works well too...

[Bord na Mona man]

Yep, you need to be able to do both.
A team that just drives it all the time is predictable and easy to counteract.
The other team drops back an extra man to mop up. They don't mind giving your team a spare man elsewhere in the field because you're going to use him to good effect.

[kingscounty]

Is the game in Birr or Tullamore Sunday, reading a few different sites and one saying Birr or saying Tullamore

[Fairplayalways]

Birr I am sure..

[Plain of the Herbs]

I just want to pick up on this, because it brings up some good points.

Yes, Limerick are good at hitting spaces between the corner-forwards and the sideline. And Paul Kinnerk develops this in his lecture, the link to which I posted yesterday evening.

Kinnerk addresses some of the key requirements for this to work properly. How the forward needs to time his run (run too early and he fills the space and the defender catches up), the forward needs to start his run from the optimum spot, and the quality of ball – the trajectory, the speed, from where it comes from. Where it is played from is important – from too far back and a sweeper or covering defender will cut it out. Therefore the ball needs to be carried upfield to some degree. And the role of the ‘third man’ is also important, the man who collects the ball from the corner-forward having broken the line and set himself up for the pass.

So there are so many nuts and bolts involved. There is so much more than simply driving the ball long. And that Kinnerk video is well worth a watch.

all excellent points above, I was watching Limerick V Wexford on TV (couldnt make Galway game due to family stuff here) and I note on many blogs people say "watch the way Limerick work the ball up the field" and the do on occasions, but I deliberately watched Limerick more closely all last year and again on Sunday (I know they lost before I go on to say what I am going to say
but they are also a team that have no problem letting in long balls into the channels either side of the 21 yard line, and even short of those channels (say between the 65 and 25 but out to wings) and they have Gillane, Flannagan, Hegarty and a host of on the starting 15 and subs comming in, who are first our 99% of the time (you wont be first out every single time over 70 minutes) and win their own ball, and not only have the speed to get out but also the guile to make space and score, or set up another player running on to score. I think people are very quick to write off the long (or even cross field long) ball...if you have the players it is so so effective and better hurling to look at (just my oppinion)

As it stands, there isn’t a ball winning forward in the Offaly setup, I mean in the style of Gary Hanniffy or Colin Egan or the likes. For whatever reason, they did a decent job working through the line in the first half against Dublin, and got into position to play the ball to the advantage of the inside forwards. That just didn’t happen against Galway. Offaly kept dropping the ball, and Galway probably applied more pressure than Dublin did. So what do they do?

As I said here previously, Dublin and Galway were playing completely different games to Offaly. Partly because Dublin and Galway have been playing that way for years now, and Offaly have such an inexperienced team, with half of them playing against that calibre of opposition for the first time. Like, those that know me know I do stats for the club. I’ve also did them for a year for a Senior A club for a year. Performance stats now, not like who won what 50 years ago. I record possessions. It’s fierce easy to record possessions, because it’s rare enough that there are going to be three or more passes strung together. Because there is just no continuity in club hurling in Offaly. I get the impression it would be an impossible task if there were moves taking place that involve up to eight players like you’d see Limerick do. Another thing – there might be five overhead catches in a match in Offaly. If there are 50 puckouts, in general at least 48 of them are going to hit the ground and just become another contest for possession. We in Offaly are so far behind the top 12 or 14 counties that it just isn’t funny.

It's fine to say – no more short puckouts, let’s drive everything long. Next thing, the opposition bring every line back 30 metres, and you’re outnumbered 2 to 4 when the ball hits the ground. Notice how Wexford not alone conceded the short puckout to Limerick, but in addition to that, Wexford didn’t engage the Limerick defender carrying the ball out. Wexford were wary not to get ‘overlapped’, didn’t dive in, and preferred to keep the extra men to cut out the diagonal ball.

I wish them well too, but Jesus, Sunday isn’t going to be pretty.

getting back to topic, I just think people are dismissing the long ball game too much, if you have the coaching and of course the players its as good as system as their is and contributes to great games...again just my oppinion..Offaly have a few big game ahead of them in the coming weeks, i wish them well...

[Dodge83]

As Noel Furlong would say “Drive it. Drive it. Drive it” !!!

[Plain of the Herbs]

Things you will hear from the Offaly crowd in Birr on Sunday:

"Drive it!" (obviously)
"Get rid of it"
"Lose it"
"I don't understand those short puckouts"
"That Limerick stuff has hurling ruined"
"I don't understand that handpassing"
"They need to bring back ground hurling"

If Birr GAA had a bar licence they could clean up with a drinking game, a shot every time one of the above lines is uttered.

As Noel Furlong would say “Drive it. Drive it. Drive it” !!!

[Bord na Mona man]

As Noel Furlong would say “Drive it. Drive it. Drive it” !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVMSLHDdRw8