SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

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frankthetank
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SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by frankthetank » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:36 pm

With all the SHC Round 5 games having to throw in at the same time I thought it would be a bit of craic to try and guess the venues as I presume no Senior A club can host a game as they will be hurling elsewhere at the same time. So here goes:

Belmont vs Ballinamere in O’Connor Park

Birr vs St Rynaghs in Lusmagh

Seir Kieran vs Coolderry in Crinkle

Shinrone vs Kinnitty in Carrig

Kilcormac/Killoughey vs Drumcullen in Mucklagh

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:18 pm

interesting. Doon has got a few hurling matches this year and would be an option for Belmont v Ballinamere. As would Clara. Killeigh would be an option for Kilcormac v Drums. But one match will be in BnMOCP - I'll go for Kilcormac v Drumcullen at HQ, with Belmont v Ballinamere in Clara.
frankthetank wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:36 pm
With all the SHC Round 5 games having to throw in at the same time I thought it would be a bit of craic to try and guess the venues as I presume no Senior A club can host a game as they will be hurling elsewhere at the same time. So here goes:

Belmont vs Ballinamere in O’Connor Park

Birr vs St Rynaghs in Lusmagh

Seir Kieran vs Coolderry in Crinkle

Shinrone vs Kinnitty in Carrig

Kilcormac/Killoughey vs Drumcullen in Mucklagh
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by Plain of the Herbs » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:21 pm

Pick one to go to as a neutral. At this stage, I'd say Shinrone v Kinnitty. Though if Belmont v Ballinamere was in somewhere like Doon I'd be facing a decision.
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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by Lone Shark » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:30 pm

Interesting premise. Actually, considering the geography involved, surely there would be a case to saying to the clubs involved in at least two of the games (KK vs Drumcullen, Clareen vs Coolderry, maybe even Shinrone vs Kinnitty and Birr vs Rynaghs) if they'd be interested in tossing a coin for home advantage. That way the clubs involved have a 50/50 chance of a home game and a chance to make a small few bob off it, nobody's going to be travelling any huge distance, and as you say, there'll be no problem getting stewards etc because people will be happy to see the game. I'd be surprised if most clubs wouldn't go for that.
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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by SearingDrive » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:41 pm

How about.

Belmont v Ballinamere Clara

Coolderry v Seir Kieran. Rath

KK v Drumcullen Kinnitty

St. Rynagh’s v Birr Lusmagh

Shinrone v Kinnitty. Crinkle.

Having neighbouring sides toss for venue is a good point. Would it be worth considering in 2022,
having a mix of home venue, away venue, and neutral venues as an experiment?

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by frankthetank » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:14 pm

Yes I’ve mentioned before that I’d like to see a structure where teams might get a home game or 2 in the Championship. A great marketing opportunity to promote the matches to their youngsters and build a bit of glamour towards it.

With the current structure of 5 games, 2 could be at home, 2 away and one in a neutral venue. Be great to see it in 2022 as an experiment.

Regarding Round 5, the fixtures have been made are all on at 4pm on the Sunday.

Coolderry vs Seir Kieran in Crinkle

Ballianmere vs Belmont in Clara

Birr vs St Rynaghs in Carrig

Kinnitty vs Shinrone in Birr

K/K vs Drumcullen in OCP.

I managed 1/5 with my predictions! I didn’t think SBP would be available but there you go.

Maybe the county board officials are going to man the gate there for a rehearsal!!!!!!

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by SearingDrive » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:19 pm

frankthetank wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:14 pm
Yes I’ve mentioned before that I’d like to see a structure where teams might get a home game or 2 in the Championship. A great marketing opportunity to promote the matches to their youngsters and build a bit of glamour towards it.

With the current structure of 5 games, 2 could be at home, 2 away and one in a neutral venue. Be great to see it in 2022 as an experiment.

Regarding Round 5, the fixtures have been made are all on at 4pm on the Sunday.

Coolderry vs Seir Kieran in Crinkle

Ballianmere vs Belmont in Clara

Birr vs St Rynaghs in Carrig

Kinnitty vs Shinrone in Birr

K/K vs Drumcullen in OCP.

I managed 1/5 with my predictions! I didn’t think SBP would be available but there you go.


Maybe the county board officials are going to man the gate there for a rehearsal!!!!!!


I got none, but such is life. Regarding the 2022 championship, I should have said that the hurling championship would try a mix of home, away, and games at neutral venues. It would be a novel idea, and save on the CCC finding neutral venues for championship games.
That idea was trialled a few years ago in the SF championship, but the executive reverted to using neutral venues.

One problem highlighted by this championship, is the big gap between the A section, and the B group. Drumcullen were hammered last Sunday, Seir Kieran lost by 10 points.
How do you resolve that inequality?

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by llkj » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:17 pm

In addition to the hammerings, it also presents such a safety net for the other senior clubs. Having a bad year - don’t worry we’ll be grand and we’ll go again next year.

I think 8 teams per Division is better personally.
Senior is competitive in every match. Threat of relegation is real for several clubs in a given year, which drives standards.
Senior b is better quality and less of a gap to senior. Also, avoids the farce of a 6 team championship like we have.
This trickles down to intermediate too.

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by SearingDrive » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:51 am

llkj wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:17 pm
In addition to the hammerings, it also presents such a safety net for the other senior clubs. Having a bad year - don’t worry we’ll be grand and we’ll go again next year.

I think 8 teams per Division is better personally.
Senior is competitive in every match. Threat of relegation is real for several clubs in a given year, which drives standards.
Senior b is better quality and less of a gap to senior. Also, avoids the farce of a 6 team championship like we have.
This trickles down to intermediate too.
I agree about the 8 teams in each division. The problem with Senior B teams is they struggle at Senior A level.

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by frankthetank » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:54 pm

I think it boils down to the fact that we have 9 teams who are Senior standard in Offaly and when it comes down to it none of those 9 want to be on the outside of an 8 man tent looking in, as was the case for Seir Kieran in 2019 and Kinnitty in 2020.

If you took Drumcullen's result vs Coolderry out of the equation the average winning margin in this year's championship hasn't been huge (I went to figure out the average on the Offaly website but the results arent there), and along with that, going into the last weekend of games 8 of the 10 teams can still qualify for the semi-finals. Doesn't sound like a noncompetitive championship to me. I think people are overreacting to the Cooderry vs Drumcullen result.

Also I don't agree with Senior B teams struggling when they come up. Seir Kieran in 2020 lost to Coolderry by a point I think and K/K by a goal in 2 of their 3 group games. While Kinnitty this year are still in the hunt for a semi-final place.

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by Lone Shark » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:30 pm

frankthetank wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:54 pm
I think it boils down to the fact that we have 9 teams who are Senior standard in Offaly and when it comes down to it none of those 9 want to be on the outside of an 8 man tent looking in, as was the case for Seir Kieran in 2019 and Kinnitty in 2020.
This is pretty much the case - however the problem with this is that you end up moulding a championship to suit the number of teams that you think are able to compete, which by definition, is highly subject to change. And does it go the other way? What happens when you have a championship where four or five teams are a distance ahead of the rest, as would have been the case in the early part of the 2010s, do you have a senior championship with just five teams in it?

Also, the problem with having a senior championship where one or two teams are a long way adrift is that firstly, it takes a little bit of the edge off a lot of the games. When there were eight teams in Senior "A" in Offaly, there was huge excitement to the fact that bar possibly Rynaghs and KK, any one of the others were potential relegation candidates. Now, that fear factor is gone as it's more or less a done deal that Drumcullen will go down.

Finally, I don't like a format where one or two teams are way off the pace, and where scoring difference is almost certain to be a factor. Under the current Offaly system, head to head is not going to separate teams - so there is a strong incentive to absolutely beat the living daylights out of a side, to get your scoring difference up. Now I know this incentive is there anyway, but it's particularly pertinent in the current structure. And to me, there's something not particularly good about a structure that encourages you to push on and pile up the points when you're already 15 points ahead at the second half water break. It's a bit too Tipperary-esque for me.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by frankthetank » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:04 pm

Tipperary esque…..excellent!!

Just an FYI: The head to head comes into play this year IF the teams have met in the group stage. If they haven’t or if three teams are equal on points then score difference comes into play.

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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by Lone Shark » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:54 pm

But how can that happen? If you only play the teams in the other group, then it's impossible to tie with someone you've already played, no?

Or is it that the top four teams qualify, regardless of what group they come from?
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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by joe bloggs » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:48 pm

The top 4 qualify regardless of what group they were in.
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Re: SHC Round 5 Venue Roulette

Post by greenairfield » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:12 am

Offaly is score difference though ?

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