DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

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SearingDrive
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by SearingDrive » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:13 pm

Hard to disagree with Fairplay's choices. Assuming the games go ahead, with the dire weather forecast. It will be a distraction from the election news.!

Derry to beat Tipperary
Longford will probably account for Leitrim, in a local derby.
Louth at home should beat Offaly, who need to play well for 70 minutes, and get enough scores. All games from now on are must win for Offaly.
Cork and Down, Cork by a few points.

Tmacmahon
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Tmacmahon » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:21 pm

Derry v Tipperary- draw
Longford v Leitrim-Longford by 5
Louth v Offaly- draw
Cork v Down - Cork by 5

white grass
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by white grass » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:01 pm

Doon Exile wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:12 pm
As a matter of interest, can anyone on here think of any player that didn’t make themselves available and/or was dropped off any of the successful Offaly teams of recent years.

1994 and 98 hurling
97 Leinster football
1998 league

I think possibly James Grennan was working away (possibly London) around 1997 but totally stand corrected on that (maybe someone from Ferbane can confirm). He wasn’t on the panel early in the year but I think he came on in all Ireland semi v Mayo.

It’s always easier to keep people involved with successful teams.

John Ryan was dropped by tommy Lyons for having 2 pints after training one night - must have been 1997 as he was full back in league final in 1998.
How long do you have? Even in good times there is fall off, but people forget about it when you win. If Offaly had finished the job last Sunday, then a lot of the nonsense spoken since would have remained where it belongs, inside peoples heads.

If you listen to some of the old timers 'the hurling crowd' (code for Fr Vaughan) lost the 1961 All Ireland by refusing to bring Peter Nolan home from New York; this is usually accompanied by a description of Nolan's outstanding display on Sean Purcell in a Railway Cup game.

It has been suggested that Joe McKenna's stylishness was resented by some of the counties older hatchet men who were glad to see him go to Limerick. It must be said that in pre-motorway Ireland, travelling to Offaly from a job in Limerick was probably not sustainable long term.

Tony McTeague was gone off Offaly panels at 29. Eugene McGee stated that although John Dowling was blamed for McTeague's retirement, he found Dowling very supportive of his work in the run up to 1982.

Seamus Darby spent most of McGees reign outside the panel. Johnny Flaherty spent most of the 70s in America. (I include these two because they go against my general point, not in spite of it)

In the Autumn of 1982 a disagreement over Damian Martins place on the panel was resolved after he was not named on the panel for games in the early rounds to the league.

Tom Donohue walked away from the hurling panel in the 1980s after winning a medal in 1981. He told management he was going to a social event and felt other players were not as up front as him.

At Minor in 1989, Adrian Cahill was one the best hurlers in Ireland. He made his senior debut at 19 but only made one appearance for Offaly after his twenty first birthday. He did however win All Ireland club with Birr.

Roy Mannion hurled in every Offaly Championship game for five seasons from 1989 to 1993 usually on the half back line. He was a form hurler for Rynaghs when the won the Leinster in 1993. He left the panel after a disagreement with Eamon Creggan in the Spring of 94. To my knowledge the Leinster first round against Kilkenny in 94 was the earliest outing for the half back line of Whealan, Rigney and Martin. Hubert Rigney had only hurled Centre back once in the league for Offaly. Had a hurler of Mannions ability and experience been available, the selectors may shaped their side differently.

The decision to drop Pat Temple who had played nearly all the games in the 94-95 League for the Semi Final resulted in him leaving the panel.

Mel Keenahgan was working in Dublin in 1997 and would probably have been pushing for a place on the team which won Leinster that year. Jimmy Grennan played aggainst westmeath as a sub in 97
Frank Weir was outstanding in the Autumn League in 1998 but was gone soon after and never played Championship for Offaly

The 2000 Hurling championship saw a series of issues around older players position on the panel and a truly great Offaly Man Pat Fleury resigned after the All Ireland Final in state of disappointment.

I wont go through the 21 st century only to say at various times talented players like Brian Connor and D Horan have decided quiet rightly that there is more to life that GAA and gone to make their own way the outside World, in addition other players have decided that after a few years on panels they would prefer to play club and leave it at that.

Every one of these situations is different. However, today the response is almost always the same. A sizeable number of people in the county, perhaps even the majority believe the answer is players who are not on the panel.
This is largely driven by the disastrous strategy of talking up players from 15 or 16. There is always a next big thing who has scored 2-3 in a minor match over the next hill who has to be got into the team. In order to get them into the team the next big thing from three years ago has to be jettisoned.Year after year we produce skilful minor and under 20 footballer and hurlers of the year. They are usually forwards and the demands for inclusion in Offaly teams becomes deafening especially after a defeat. These demands never recognise two facts.

1.These players are coming up at least two levels(probably more) from what they used to.
This means they NEED TIME. Managements facing relegation dog fights,like every Offaly management in the last 6 years (promotion dogfight in the years we were D4 Football) rarely see it that way but that is understandable given they themselves will not get time if things turn bad.
But the attitude of supporters is far worse. You would often the the impression from listening people that Offaly should pick a team which includes at least 10 wing and corner forwards (the hue and cry is almost never for a sticky corner back, James Lawlor, Sean Pender and David Hanlon have all put in solid shifts in championship in the last three years but they are never mentioned, instead the club championships highest scorers are demanded.
2.You cannot Just pick a team of forwards.

We constantly told about the players not on Offaly panels. One journalist recycles these stories religiously,this reached a head two years ago when there was almost weekly reports of who WAS NOT on the Offaly under 20 football panel(it was the same three names every week).

I am waiting and I ll wait a long while for the some mention of Rhode, it struck me last Sunday how much this county owes that club in particular since 2006. They had five guys on the field last Sunday who wanted to be there and probably another couple who would taken your life to be out there. There are a number of players from other clubs who have nearly a decade of service.
Their hunger to win with Offaly in a time when the chances of reward are so small is inspiring.

You would badly need that inspiration some times.The truth is there are very few Offaly GAA supporters at games. When you boil it down most people are there for 'Our Lad'. People want to see Offaly win but thats secondary to how their Relation/Clubman gets on. If he gets a raw deal and Offaly win they ll stay quiet, but if the get the double ('Our Lad' is badly handled and Offaly lose) they ll be quiet vocal. Its always been like that. they re still talking about Peter Nolan, its a while since anyone mentioned Eamon Creggan's habit of falling out with players on the edge of the team in the late spring (This place would have been great craic in May 1994).

As an side
1. In General Offaly have improved dramatically from where we were two years ago against Wicklow in Portlaoise
2. Unfortunately the quality of the opposition Offaly are facing has also improved. The next two games are winnable, but not bankers.Having to play the two target wins away from home back to back is difficult but not impossible.
3. Using the league as a guide Offaly have been the 22 best team Ireland every year for three or four years, right now you,d take someome's arm off for that at the end of the league, but there is no reason not to aim higher.
4. Offaly need a better spread of scorers and in particular a strong impact from the bench. Its really frustrating talking to people who are on about starting 15. In the next two games Offaly will need our subs to score.
5. Underage football in Offay is understandably focused on quick ball to fast inside forwards in space. The well drilled inter county teams are understandably focused on stopping their opposition from working the ball fast. Our forwards are denied room to move and at times we struggle to find gaps in massed defences for what other sports call a line break (This is when the crowd who have been demanding the next big thing lose patience which him and ironically call for a newer model).When we do crack this nut, we are often as surprised as the opposition and end up with the wrong person at the end of moves. For these reasons Offaly don't score enough GOALS.
In 9 out of the last 13 league and championship games Offaly have not scored a goal ( its not all bad news,on the other end we have improved greatly at keeping clean sheets) The free taker issue is well known and in truth has been for over ten years and it remains vital to Offaly moving up a level, but goals are vital to remaining where we are.

Confidence
A couple of times last Sunday Offaly players didn't back themselves and this is what gets me about all the talk about missing players. Any guy who gets an Offaly jersey has believe he is the business. Thats not the way it works in Offaly. For years lads were told they weren't as good as the 82 team and now they re told they are better men at home.
Its Awful.
If lads on this side could back themselves and just as important each other they would shock people. We re not talking about beating Dublin but we are talking about looking at Down coming to OCP and instead of dreading the thought of it, thinking 'they got us in Newry last year and its time to pay them back for that'
Our lad will win nothing on his own, and the lad at home (no matter what the reason for that is) can win nothing at all, the only lads who matter, the only ones who can win anything are the one who are there.
Good luck to them

Doon Exile
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Doon Exile » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:23 pm

Fair play White Grass. A well informed read and I’d forgotten about a few of them - can’t believe I forgot about Roy Mannion. Man of the match in 1991 league final and class act.
Doon exile....

Doon Exile
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Doon Exile » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:25 pm

SearingDrive wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:13 pm
Hard to disagree with Fairplay's choices. Assuming the games go ahead, with the dire weather forecast. It will be a distraction from the election news.!

Derry to beat Tipperary
Longford will probably account for Leitrim, in a local derby.
Louth at home should beat Offaly, who need to play well for 70 minutes, and get enough scores. All games from now on are must win for Offaly.
Cork and Down, Cork by a few points.

I think Down have a great chance and might just sneak a win here. Would agree with the other predictions.
Doon exile....

Hyper
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Hyper » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:45 pm

great write up White Grass

Hyper
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Hyper » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:48 pm

I see Cian and Jordan are dropped for Sunday. Chilli Donnelly comes in at CF with Conor McNamee coming in at CF and Cathal Mangan moving to WF. The backs remain as they wer.

biffinbanner
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by biffinbanner » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:59 am

after reading all that i have to comment on it and remember names that we threw round as being the next johnny flaherty or mark corrigan .its a sad inditement of lots of stuff but jesus lads i remember roy mannions display in 91. one word. powerful

Kevin
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Kevin » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:02 am

white grass - thanks for that. Very informative.
Kevin Clancey. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

ryot
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by ryot » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:00 pm

white grass wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:01 pm
If you listen to some of the old timers 'the hurling crowd' (code for Fr Vaughan) lost the 1961 All Ireland by refusing to bring Peter Nolan home from New York; this is usually accompanied by a description of Nolan's outstanding display on Sean Purcell in a Railway Cup game.
Now that was one of the great debates of my youth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, only it was Peters holding James McCartan scoreless in the old St Brendan Cup game in Croke Park about a month after the 61 Final that was quoted as proof by many Clara men...………...the only surprise is that Brian Gavin was not using that episode to bash Tommy Byrne late last year !!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the Railway Cup game, in Ballinasloe around 57 or was it 59:::: Peter got a chasing from Purcell who was aided by Stockwell playing a roving role, really a third midfielder carrying the ball unopposed as Leinster full back Jim Ryan from Meath staunchly and totally useless stood at the edge of the square as the points sailed over his head while Peter tried vainly to mark the Tuam terrible twins...……….. The men who really impressed that day were 2 Leitrim men, wing forward Packy McGarty and corner forward Cathal Flynn...………..

SearingDrive
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by SearingDrive » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:44 pm

Hyper wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:48 pm
I see Cian and Jordan are dropped for Sunday. Chilli Donnelly comes in at CF with Conor McNamee coming in at CF and Cathal Mangan moving to WF. The backs remain as they wer.
What is the team for the Louth game?

SearingDrive
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by SearingDrive » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:53 pm

ryot wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:00 pm
white grass wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:01 pm
If you listen to some of the old timers 'the hurling crowd' (code for Fr Vaughan) lost the 1961 All Ireland by refusing to bring Peter Nolan home from New York; this is usually accompanied by a description of Nolan's outstanding display on Sean Purcell in a Railway Cup game.
Now that was one of the great debates of my youth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, only it was Peters holding James McCartan scoreless in the old St Brendan Cup game in Croke Park about a month after the 61 Final that was quoted as proof by many Clara men...………...the only surprise is that Brian Gavin was not using that episode to bash Tommy Byrne late last year !!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the Railway Cup game, in Ballinasloe around 57 or was it 59:::: Peter got a chasing from Purcell who was aided by Stockwell playing a roving role, really a third midfielder carrying the ball unopposed as Leinster full back Jim Ryan from Meath staunchly and totally useless stood at the edge of the square as the points sailed over his head while Peter tried vainly to mark the Tuam terrible twins...……….. The men who really impressed that day were 2 Leitrim men, wing forward Packy McGarty and corner forward Cathal Flynn...………..
Good trip down memory lane Ryot. I recall the debate about not bringing Peter Nolan back from America, the belief was that Offaly would have beaten Down in the AI Final, Offaly lost by a point, 3-6 to 2-8, over 90,000 attended, (a record crowd) including myself. There was the debate about the penalty not given to Tommy Green, when he was heading for goal.
Those were different times, a more innocent era.

ryot
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by ryot » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:02 pm

Searingdrive:

I was there for the stupidly awarded peno (Ref Tom Cunningham Waterford) in the 60 semi--McCarten charged into a few Offaly defenders, well outside the square, and bounces back off then onto his ass and was given the equalising peno………

I was not there in 61, locked up in boarding school, but often saw the film of Tommy G been clobbered,,,,,,,,,,, it was an obvious foul but not even given a free...…….

Fairplayalways
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Fairplayalways » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:47 pm

beginning to wonder what this post was set up to discuss...anyway thanks for all posts...Adrian Cahill in particular definitely was one that got away..the gene there would be his late mother was a McDermott from Banagher who was a niece of the Whites so the gene would have been very strong..what a loss whe was to Offaly hurling, every county will have had them I know, but Adrian Cahill was that loss to Offaly...Roy Mannion had bad knees (same as his son Ethan actually) and very head strong fellah who fell out with Cregan at a training session...Finbarr Cullen was an fine hurler too and I think played Senior a few times, but ultimately him being outside the hurling stronghold probaly resulted in him concentrating on football, he was a fine hurler...Cillian Farrell, remember him..good one too...look we could be here all night...

Fairplayalways
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Re: DIV 3 NFL predictions and general chit chat.

Post by Fairplayalways » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:48 pm

Back to tomorrows game in Drogheda, late views....did I hear CJ is dropped?

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