Just looking for peoples opinions on fixtures locally and nationally and what problems they see with them and how they can be sorted out.
Nationally , I see the fixtures review committee has not achieved much and the club players association (CPA) seem to be in total disagreement with the way the fixtures are being run nationally and locally.
What problems do people see with fixtures at the moment and how could they be rectified?
I have a few ideas myself but would like for other posters to give their opinions first.
The fixtures crisis - how would you sort it ?
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Hasselhoff
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- Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:49 pm
Re: The fixtures crisis - how would you sort it ?
Good question....
Have some ideas, some of which I will touch on. I think the new tiered system in football might alleviate some of the congestion and free up 2 or maybe 3 extra weeks. That said, I wont get into merits / non merits of org of county game and will try stay focused on club.
There is an issue in Offaly with club leagues. They arent taken any way seriously. Money needs to be put up as reward for competitions and give them credit and time they deserve.
In Cork their senior leagues used win prize pot of 5K - other counties were known as boots league, where winning teams players won pairs of football boots as winners - not saying this should be case but there was a reward for winning league. Could this be done in Offaly by club simply winning entry fee back with some prize money put up by a sponsor? Main point here is that if an incentive to win is there, clubs and players would put in more effort and take more seriously as it is in most counties - promoting higher standards all around.
I understand some dual clubs opted out of leagues in recent years ie Tullamore and Rynaghs (who sometimes play Leinster League) as their players are on every weekend for about 20 weeks as a result of being in both county leagues......
However, Westmeath have run excellent leagues for last few years with hurling and football rotating every second week from late Feb through to end of May, guaranteeing games! Top 10 teams in Tier 1 and so on in Tier 2 / Tier 3,4,5 etc in football - think it is top 7 or 8 in hurling etc.
Basically, it starts in mid/late February for football and mid March for Hurling with top 2 getting promoted and bottom 2 relegated from all divisions with final in each division for top 2 teams played in Cusack Park in June - it is always played off before championship starts. As result, most club teams in Westmeath start training in January - some pre-Christmas......
County players will be released for certain games and those not on a match 26 for co seniors also play. For most part, all Co U 20's play league with their clubs.
So that is my take on league games....
As for championship, I hate the groups of 8 in hurling. It is ridiculous. The groups of 4 in football playing across with 4 games is okay but I think if seeded - ie split co finalists in groups and open draw after that, 2 trad groups of 4 might be better.
Alternatively, a knockout championship with back-door has worked very well in bigger counties - almost guaranteeing same amount of games but with way more intensity......
Eg
8 teams play with 4 winners going to winners section and 4 losers to losers section.
In winners section, 4 teams play with 2 teams winning going straight to Semi-finals.
In losers section 4 teams play with losers (have lost 2 games at this stage) ending up in relegation final with losing team to drop for relegation (have lost 3 games at this stage)
2 winners in losers section play the 2 losers in winners section (again both teams 3rd game) with 2 teams progressing to semi final against winners of winners sections.
So essentially, would mean 4 or 5 meaningful knockout games to win championship with 3 meaningful games irrespective....... This works well in bigger counties - albeit there are maybe 16 teams in said competitions where it would take 5/6 meaningful games to win outright and maybe 4 if getting relegated - however, there is a lot riding on every game and it increases standards and intensity as a result.
However, this is only beneficial if there is a meaningful and respected league in the county!
Again, using another example used in Westmeath and Roscommon where there are 2 tiers based on ability within same competition meaning much more even games.
For example, Westmeath Senior Hurling Championship has 2 tiers of 5 teams. Top 5 play each other in league format - 4 games each with top 2 going straight to semi and next 2 straight to quarter final with bottom team of 5 losing out to relegation to 2nd tier of same competition.
In Group 2, Top 2 teams qualify for Q-Finals against teams 3 & 4 in Group 1 with bottom team relegated. A similar competition happens in Westmeath and Roscommon Football with 2 groups of 6. Apparently last year, Mullingar Shamrocks won senior football championship from lower tier, coming through quarter, semi and final respectively...... But basically, all are guaranteed 5 or 6 meaningful championship games incl a knockout match if in relegation or quarter / semi final. Again however, they have a good emphasis on league so they don't need a group of 8 league matches.
Beyond that, I think that the underage should operate on league championship - groups of 8 - top 2 to semi, next 4 to quarter with bottom 2 playing off. I think that there should be a tie in between who wins a B championship in 2019 and who plays in A in 2021 for example. Winner of B in 2019 must be moved up in 2021 to compete in A. Also, some clubs at U13 and U15 at least should have 2 teams with teams prioritised and put into a B/C championship. There should be an allowance of maybe 15 named players that play A and cannot play B - with all others allowed to play B/C irrespective of whether they play A or not at a given time in given year. If this were case, more young lads and girls would be getting more games more often and as a result, the standards would rise. You might not think that 7 league games is a lot but you have to factor in dual guys, lads playing other sports etc...... Besides, the dev squads and schools are giving plenty of scope for participation and development also - if they are done correctly but that is whole other debate......
Maybe doesn't answer too many questions but it is a brief slant on what I would see as requirement for fixtures - or avenues to explore at least.
Have some ideas, some of which I will touch on. I think the new tiered system in football might alleviate some of the congestion and free up 2 or maybe 3 extra weeks. That said, I wont get into merits / non merits of org of county game and will try stay focused on club.
There is an issue in Offaly with club leagues. They arent taken any way seriously. Money needs to be put up as reward for competitions and give them credit and time they deserve.
In Cork their senior leagues used win prize pot of 5K - other counties were known as boots league, where winning teams players won pairs of football boots as winners - not saying this should be case but there was a reward for winning league. Could this be done in Offaly by club simply winning entry fee back with some prize money put up by a sponsor? Main point here is that if an incentive to win is there, clubs and players would put in more effort and take more seriously as it is in most counties - promoting higher standards all around.
I understand some dual clubs opted out of leagues in recent years ie Tullamore and Rynaghs (who sometimes play Leinster League) as their players are on every weekend for about 20 weeks as a result of being in both county leagues......
However, Westmeath have run excellent leagues for last few years with hurling and football rotating every second week from late Feb through to end of May, guaranteeing games! Top 10 teams in Tier 1 and so on in Tier 2 / Tier 3,4,5 etc in football - think it is top 7 or 8 in hurling etc.
Basically, it starts in mid/late February for football and mid March for Hurling with top 2 getting promoted and bottom 2 relegated from all divisions with final in each division for top 2 teams played in Cusack Park in June - it is always played off before championship starts. As result, most club teams in Westmeath start training in January - some pre-Christmas......
County players will be released for certain games and those not on a match 26 for co seniors also play. For most part, all Co U 20's play league with their clubs.
So that is my take on league games....
As for championship, I hate the groups of 8 in hurling. It is ridiculous. The groups of 4 in football playing across with 4 games is okay but I think if seeded - ie split co finalists in groups and open draw after that, 2 trad groups of 4 might be better.
Alternatively, a knockout championship with back-door has worked very well in bigger counties - almost guaranteeing same amount of games but with way more intensity......
Eg
8 teams play with 4 winners going to winners section and 4 losers to losers section.
In winners section, 4 teams play with 2 teams winning going straight to Semi-finals.
In losers section 4 teams play with losers (have lost 2 games at this stage) ending up in relegation final with losing team to drop for relegation (have lost 3 games at this stage)
2 winners in losers section play the 2 losers in winners section (again both teams 3rd game) with 2 teams progressing to semi final against winners of winners sections.
So essentially, would mean 4 or 5 meaningful knockout games to win championship with 3 meaningful games irrespective....... This works well in bigger counties - albeit there are maybe 16 teams in said competitions where it would take 5/6 meaningful games to win outright and maybe 4 if getting relegated - however, there is a lot riding on every game and it increases standards and intensity as a result.
However, this is only beneficial if there is a meaningful and respected league in the county!
Again, using another example used in Westmeath and Roscommon where there are 2 tiers based on ability within same competition meaning much more even games.
For example, Westmeath Senior Hurling Championship has 2 tiers of 5 teams. Top 5 play each other in league format - 4 games each with top 2 going straight to semi and next 2 straight to quarter final with bottom team of 5 losing out to relegation to 2nd tier of same competition.
In Group 2, Top 2 teams qualify for Q-Finals against teams 3 & 4 in Group 1 with bottom team relegated. A similar competition happens in Westmeath and Roscommon Football with 2 groups of 6. Apparently last year, Mullingar Shamrocks won senior football championship from lower tier, coming through quarter, semi and final respectively...... But basically, all are guaranteed 5 or 6 meaningful championship games incl a knockout match if in relegation or quarter / semi final. Again however, they have a good emphasis on league so they don't need a group of 8 league matches.
Beyond that, I think that the underage should operate on league championship - groups of 8 - top 2 to semi, next 4 to quarter with bottom 2 playing off. I think that there should be a tie in between who wins a B championship in 2019 and who plays in A in 2021 for example. Winner of B in 2019 must be moved up in 2021 to compete in A. Also, some clubs at U13 and U15 at least should have 2 teams with teams prioritised and put into a B/C championship. There should be an allowance of maybe 15 named players that play A and cannot play B - with all others allowed to play B/C irrespective of whether they play A or not at a given time in given year. If this were case, more young lads and girls would be getting more games more often and as a result, the standards would rise. You might not think that 7 league games is a lot but you have to factor in dual guys, lads playing other sports etc...... Besides, the dev squads and schools are giving plenty of scope for participation and development also - if they are done correctly but that is whole other debate......
Maybe doesn't answer too many questions but it is a brief slant on what I would see as requirement for fixtures - or avenues to explore at least.
jimbob