Divisional sides

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hamstrings
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Divisional sides

Post by hamstrings »

Just read up on the way Kerry has two championships in there season. Would a Kerry type set up work in offaly with divisional sides ?

West offaly, South, north etc
Gives players from junior clubs a shot at the highest level football in the county and expose them to a higher standard aswell

private joker
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by private joker »

It would be a good idea. But the season will never end. You want to have a very good fixtures committee and judging by the underage still going in November Offaly don't have that.

LooseCannon
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by LooseCannon »

Would be worth looking into, no doubt.

Would anyone like to break the 22 teams I think that are non senior A into divisional teams?

Senior B
Ballycumber
Tubber
Durrow
Erin Rovers
Walsh Island
Gracefield
Shannonbridge

Intermediate
Clonbullogue
St Rynagh’s
Kilcormac/Killoughey
St Brigid’s
Clodiagh Gaels
Ballycommon
Raheen
Doon

Junior A
Kilclonfert
Ballyfore
Ballinagar
Daingean
Birr
Kinnitty
Clonmore Harps

There’s the teams. I might come back and try it myself. Looking at at least three teams per combination, probably a max of 5 clubs in one. Obviously it would depend on strength of the teams, ie the respective grades they compete at.
Good Luck

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

Shure 'tis easy for Kerry to do that when they get their hurling championship out of the way in August.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

private joker
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by private joker »

Dublin did it in hurling for 4 years I think. Did ok. Regions didn't buy into it. Done away with now.

Geansai Gorm
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by Geansai Gorm »

Make the Leagues smaller, less games, and throw this regional thing in early in season before real championship starts.

hamstrings
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by hamstrings »

Based on next year the divisional championship might look like this , if it was senior A against the rest:

South west gaels :Birr area(coolderry,clareen,drumcullen etc) shannonbridge, st rynaghs,lusmagh

Failghe gaels: K/K , kinnity,clodiagh gaels,ballinagar and Raheen

St.broughans:same as underage swapping bracknagh with gracefield

St.vincents: same underage excluding cappincur inserting croghan,harps and ballyfore

St manchans(including durrow)

Bracknagh
Cappincur
Clara
Edenderry
Ferbane
Tullamore
Shamrocks
Rhode

5 divisional sides and 8 senior A teams
Its probably more benifical if it was intermediate junior A and B team amalgamations instead of including senior B teams

Any changes to those teams ?

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Lone Shark
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by Lone Shark »

A few things people need to note if they want this to turn into a serious discussion. It can be done, but don't forget that Kerry is not a dual culture.

(1) First and foremost, it won't surprise anyone to learn that if you are a county footballer, it's accepted that you probably won't play club hurling until Kerry are beaten. However the same applies if you're playing for Feale Rangers, or Shannon Gaels, or any of the other divisional sides that pull from the parts of Kerry where hurling is played. It's just not feasible. Now imagine the "South West Gaels" team listed above if you couldn't pick anyone who was playing club hurling?

(2) In order to make the divisional system work, it's quite common for players to have to play with their club on a Saturday, and then with their division on a Sunday, or vice versa. For obvious reasons, this impinges on clubs. On the one hand, it's a zero sum game - in theory, if Shannonbridge play Clonbullogue in an IFC game on a Sunday, then both teams have players that played a full championship match the day before, possibly against a team like Rhode or Ferbane. That's fine when all the junior and inter clubs play ball, but what happens when one or two of them don't, and the players from those clubs say no thanks, I'm playing club only. Then those clubs have a huge advantage, and the pressure would come on all the others to follow suit.

(3) It's stating the obvious, but senior teams are not cheap to run - you'd certainly want to have €20,000 in your budget at least, and that's presuming a manager that's either claiming minimal expenses or nothing at all. So if you've four clubs in your division, that's €5,000 that they each have to find to be competitive, and they still have to fund their own teams as usual. On top of that, there's no affinity or identity there. If I run a business in Shannonbridge, I'll do my best to pitch in and sponsor Shannonbridge in some way. I'm not going to dig deeper to fund a divisional team, and I may even think twice about supporting the local club if I'm thinking that the money raised will be spent on a team full of Coolderry and Shinrone lads making a half-arsed attempt at playing football.

(4) We often have this naive view in Offaly that if you stuck three or four junior clubs together, you'd suddenly have a good senior team, just because you have 15 or 16 decent footballers to pick from. It's incredibly difficult to get lads to gel like that, usually a divisional side has to be 100% better in terms of talent to be 10% better in terms of team performance. The Kenmare district side is an exception with just three clubs (albeit one of those is a large town) but the average is seven or eight clubs, all clubs that play football regularly. East Kerry, who beat Dr. Crokes last week, is made up of 13 football clubs. Some of the Cork divisions are 20 or more clubs. In Offaly, we'd be looking at three divisions at the absolute max. A team made up of Gracefield, Clonbullogue and Walsh Island would be feck all more competitive than Gracefield themselves are right now.


Now if you can take all that on board, and you still think that divisional teams are a good idea, then plough on, on that basis. But I often think we have this naive idea here in Offaly that you could make up a parish team, people look at the names written down on a piece of paper and think that's a savage side, and then they think that every footballer will be ten times better for playing senior football. Playing senior football is great for you, but far more important if you're in Rhode, or Ferbane, or Tullamore, or Edenderry, is that you get good coaching in a good culture, that you have training sessions that are of a high standard, and that the collective efforts of the team are well-supported by a club that is run effectively and efficiently.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Lone Shark
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by Lone Shark »

Geansai Gorm wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:36 pm Make the Leagues smaller, less games, and throw this regional thing in early in season before real championship starts.
I don't know if you're being facetious or genuine. If it's not "real championship", Offaly people don't care. The leagues prove this. There's not a notion of players signing up for some sort of glorified tournament if it's not about winning the Dowling Cup.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Lone Shark
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by Lone Shark »

private joker wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:17 pm It would be a good idea. But the season will never end. You want to have a very good fixtures committee and judging by the underage still going in November Offaly don't have that.
Just on this, it's utterly impossible to try and get underage run off much sooner. Don't forget that due to exams, you can't start until July at the earliest. If either minor county team gets a bit of a run going, you'll have to wait longer. Then you have managers messing around with games all because kids are gone away on holidays at various stages across the full summer. You finally get a game arranged and it gets pulled because a county development squad has a blitz in Abbotstown. (And yes, that's bollixology, but it's the reality of it). You have lads playing for two age brackets and two codes, and you have other lads who play one sport and aren't good enough to play up the ages, so you have one set complaining about not enough games and another complaining about too many.

I'm an underage club secretary here in Roscommon and I'd kill to have the structure that there is in Offaly. There are underage county finals still being played here, and they completely ignore dual culture in this county (at one stage we were scheduled to play four games, U14H, U16H, U14F, U16F, in the space of five days). We have some good U14s who are needed for U16 football and hurling, and they were scheduled to play 20 games in September. I brought this us with one of the members of the county minor board, only to be told that we need to put our foot down and do more to "bring the hurling lads into line". Offaly doesn't get everything right, but it does a lot better than most.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

Plain of the Herbs
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by Plain of the Herbs »

And if the league's are smaller and therefore less league games (which would be in breach of directives from headquarters), what are the club Junior players who don't play County and don't play Division stuff to do?
Bear in mind, Kerry, as well as having April as a club month like the rest of us, also have May as a 'club month' because of the structure of the Munster Senior football championship. And Joe McDonagh hurling wouldn't be interfering with club football either.
Geansai Gorm wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:36 pm Make the Leagues smaller, less games, and throw this regional thing in early in season before real championship starts.
Pat Donegan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

GAHMAD
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by GAHMAD »

It's amazing how this topic is put out every year around this time, usually when lads have nothing better GAA wise to be thinking about. If guys were serious about it then there would be a proper proposal of how this might work in reality.

But in fairness, it is a topic that the County Board (or interested clubs) should do research on in relation to,

1) Benefits to the quality of football/footballers in the County

2) Potential to increase engagement with supporters

3) Shake up the Senior clubs and how they use the talent at their disposal

4) See if there is the potential for Parish/Divisional sides to upset the apple cart and win or compete strongly to win a Senior championship.
Or on the flip side disprove the theory many junior clubs have that they have 4 or 5 lads as good as many of the Rhode/Tullamore players.

I have to say though that I think that St Broughans for example, if prepared properly would give all the Senior teams a run for it (although it would have to be with the Bracknagh players onboard (WHICH CANT HAPPEN OF COURSE as they are up Senior now). But they would have to be allowed to prepare properly as a team and I doubt clubs are going to allow that. It's a frustration as there is the potential for a better Senior Championship.

ryot
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Re: Divisional sides

Post by ryot »

This topic reminds me of when back in the Sixties 2 divisional sides , North Offaly and South Offaly, participated in the Senior Championship. The only notable thing about that was a lack of interest, lack of commitment and lack of preparation.

After that failed a proposal was passed allowing players from Junior clubs play senior championship with a senior club in the same parish. Belmont lads could, and did, play with Ferbane. Probably led to their amalgamation.

Doon lads played with Erin's Rovers with very little preparation and without much success.

I don't know if the experiment even had a second year.

The prospect of having all the best players in the county playing in the senior championship is great. Just how to work it is the big question...……...

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